TheCADJockey
ALL YOUR BASE
I stand by my previous suggestion to plaster that entire interior with the sick-nastyest linoleum you can find. Work it.
I stand by my previous suggestion to plaster that entire interior with the sick-nastyest linoleum you can find. Work it.
Can I ask why you thing it's necessary to avoid fiberglass insulation.
It is hard to explain without seriously geeking out but it basically humid air condenses through multiple strati in the insulation. Works well as part of a "system" of air infiltration (control), insulation and vapor transmission. When used incorrectly it is a loose collection of nucleation sites for vapor to condense, travel down the fibers, pool on the bottom plate and cause rot and mold.Can I ask why you thing it's necessary to avoid fiberglass insulation.
Can you link me to a product that can be used that isn't fiberglass?
Wall covering, so not paint? Right?Since you live in a temperate climate, a lot of the "easy" options won't be common but here is the easiest homeowner installed route:
Common unfaced R11 fiberglass in the walls http://www.homedepot.com/p/Owens-Co...n-M41Q/202519278?N=5yc1vZbay7Z1z0uukvZ1z0zvdl
1/2" or 3/4" closed cell foam on top of the studs http://www.homedepot.com/p/Rmax-R-M...nsulation-Board-754404/100572981?N=5yc1vZbaxx
Tape the seams with this http://www.homedepot.com/p/TYVEK-HomeWrap-2-in-x-164-ft-Installation-Tape-D13841470/100422453
Wall covering of your choice over the top
Wall covering, so not paint? Right?
I'll talk to my guy. The insulation board and unfazed insulation is not available within 100 miles of me. I didn't check outside of that range. I am also unable to order online. So I'll see what can happen.
Is standard sheetrock okay in houses because the exterior has a vapor barrier? Is that the only difference?
Is standard sheetrock okay in houses because the exterior has a vapor barrier? Is that the only difference?
Forgive my ignorance, I don't understand building a brew shed in a place like Minneapolis.
I'm curious too... I'm brewing in a spare bedroom because I have no basement but I plan on moving soon...Anyway the shed crossed my mind before I realized how impractical it would be in the NY winter... I would have to heat it as anything that runs on newer r134a refrigerant wont run for very long without burning up unless the temps are above freezing (it turns to slush and burns out the compressor in a short time period)....Forgive my ignorance, I don't understand building a brew shed in a place like Minneapolis.
Brewing involves liquids, so are you going to heat the shed all winter so they don't freeze ? Are you going to ferment in the shed or just brew there ?
How do you handle discharging waste liquids from a shed ? Do you trench a sewer line into it ? Or dump everything onto the lawn ?
Where does your water supply come from ? I understand using a garden hose in the summer, but in the winter ?
Just curious.
Who are you referring to now? This is in NC.
Nice looking brew shack! It's nice to have dedicated space for any hobby. I take it you'll just run a garden hose out there for water?
I built a 10 x 20 shed for woodworking about 8 years ago. I looked into the pre-built units and didn't like what I saw, so I stick-built mine. I did the electrical, which is a lot of work, but I enjoyed doing it (except digging the trench for the feeder). I have a 60A subpanel with a couple 240V and three 120V branch circuits. Plenty to power stationary tools, dust collector and lights, etc.
I wish I could build another one for brewing, but my city only allows one shed on residential lots.
I also missed this.... There must have been recent discussion of building one in Minneapolis by someone... damn hijackers
MaxStout is from Minn.
Sorry if this was a hijack, but some of the questions apply to brewshacks built in warm climates as well.
I, myself, considered brewing in my garage for a while. Its not heated, but could be, it has no water, but could have and it has no sewer hookup, but could have. I'm wondering if I'm missing something.
I brew on my back porch or in my detached garage with no heat, water or sewer and barely any electricity including a recent session at 5 f. I will not get into the details how (unless you care) but the brewing is no that hard.
NC regulations will require the sink to be hooked up to a permitted wastewater system. The shed will also require a building permit since there will be electricity in it. Of course what the county doesn't know about...
I won't interrupt your thread anymore.
The problem with the shed is that you can't hide it. All it takes is one motivated neighbor and you've got an inspector at your door. And its really easy for them to order you to either bring the shed up to code or remove it. It is, after all, a shed, on skids, not on a poured foundation.
Building codes exist for a reason.
I won't interrupt your thread anymore.
I think the OP stated that her shed didn't require a permit, due to its size.
But yes, good point in general. If a permit is needed, it's better to have it than risk getting ratted out later by a nosy neighbor.
In my city, it's only $50 for the permit, and sheds under 120 sq. ft. don't require one. I have no idea what the fines are for not having a permit, but I think it's more than $50. I have heard stories from other communities where the city orders the removal of non-compliant sheds. Ditto for decks, porches, etc. Not worth the hassle.
I love the idea but think it's getting way over thought by most here.
I have been a general contractor for 20 years and while building a home correctly can get quite complicated, with consideration needed for climate control, a simple shed to brew in doesn't need to be so complicated.
Fiberglass, vapor barrier, drywall, paint, is all you need. Don't over complicate it, it's just a shed to brew in after all. K.I.S.S. is a good rule to live by. Power vent while actually brewing. Provide some kind of ventilation(crack a window) when not brewing or heating the space, and you should have no real issues.
The plastic wall coverings can discolor and are expensive. If this happens they need to be ripped out and replaced. If you paint the drywall, and it gets shabby, you can just repaint. Another option would be to use some inexpensive plywood sheeting for your walls. If cut carefully, and installed with some care, it can be painted like drywall, yet provides a much more rugged finished wall. The seems and corners can even be caulked with a latex caulk for a more finished look.
Your not brewing everyday, or likely, even every week. The space will likely see little other use. There is no reason to treat it like a commercial brewery.
Just my $.02
Great thread!
NC regulations will require the sink to be hooked up to a permitted wastewater system. The shed will also require a building permit since there will be electricity in it. Of course what the county doesn't know about...
My intent was to treat the shed like a bathroom with a shower, just as I did my powder room rebuild. I figured that would be sufficient as long as I kept a vent fan on throughout the boil and let it run for a bit after. I also upgraded to a window with a screen, just like a house window, and a door that opens inward so I can install a screen door. The goal was ventilation.Don't underestimate the moisture that will occur from simple exposure to the elements. You aren't planning to dehumidify the space, I imagine, or employ climate control (AC/heat). Mold and other nasties can develop just from exposure to natural humidity over time. Go with the full gloss paint and use bathroom type drywall.
You have the climate pretty much dialed in. The shed will not be temp controlled when I am not in there, correct. In the summer I actually considered a dehumidifier just because. My baseboard is going to be PVC and the flooring will be vinyl laid over concrete backing board. Under that is 3/4" dry ply. Another shed upgrade.OK, let's all take a breathe on the interior wall covering...even me.
Your climate, having lived 8 years in Raleigh, is as follows (from memory):
Cool to cold winters but not severe cold nor particularly high percipitation
Mild Fall
Spring is mild but variable humidty year over year but 10-20" rain and relative humidity in the 80's
Summer is warm not particularly hot (rare days over 95 degrees) with relative humidity in the 70's
So if your fermentation chamber fridge and keezer are kicking out mad BTU's in summer fall and spring, you will have no environmental issues with moisture when idle.
If your vent fan runs for a minimum of 30-45 minutes after the brew session is completely over and you have "pre-heated" your brew space with a space heater (electric) you will have no environmental issues if all standing water is cleaned up.
So this goes back to the active "spray" in the brewing process. Clean it up 90% of your potential issues go away. Make sure to have the drywall installer hold the drywall off the finished floor a minimum of 1/2", use densarmor if you can and make sure to use a quality high-solids latex paint. At the very least, use a waterproof baseboard of either PVC or vinyl.
This is not a place for fiberglass insulation if it can be avoided unless you put a moisture barrier on the inside of a wall (the opposite of what your climate dictates). Rock wool, rigid, or at the very least encapsulated fiberglass. If nothing else, use the fan-fold 1/4" insulation normally used under exterior siding under the the drywall after the fiberglass is put in.
OK, rant over
I don't know where R13 came in, but I have R19 planned. I will install a vent fan and it will be vented to the outside just over my boil kettle. The eves are soffeted, so I'm using baffles and the roof has a ridge roof vent so air has a place to go. The window is screened, the door will be screened, but last. It is too much of a pain to deal with two doors when moving things in and such. I have a 120/20A circuit for a window a/c or whatever I want. The other is dedicated for the freezer.You have me thinking about doing the same in the future. I have a space perfect for a brew shed behind the garage and next to the outdoor shower.
Think of your brew shed as a small bathroom/kitchen. Moisture (directly generated or condensing) and excess heat will need to be managed. In the pic I noticed a small vent above the door, which could be made larger and replaced with a strong exhaust fan relatively inexpensively and with screens on the windows to keep bugs out (skeeters) may be enough and all you need until after your first summer or two. Then in the future your going to want air conditioning (at least one dedicated 120V/20A circuit for A/C window unit). Plan ahead for budgeting an exhaust system above the kettles and an air to air heat exchanger, so the shed is not a sauna during the NC summers. If the shed is getting direct sunlight on the roof, then consider R19 under the roof rather than R13. You will tell the difference even if it is just a shed.
Also consider anchoring the structure by next hurricane season so it doesn't blow off the foundation or roll over.
PS: Where is the recliner and 60" TV going?
This is exactly how I saw it happening. I always intended to do the sheeting over the insulation. I did that in my powder room as well.With un-faced fiberglass insulation a plastic sheeting vapor barrier goes on the inside of the room between the wall board and fiberglass.
I'll shoot you a PM.@Hello: I have found a source for 2" thick 4' x 8' rigid foam insulation for $10. It's not too far from Raleigh. I picked some up just a couple weeks ago. PM me if you want more information. I work in RTP and it took me an hour to get there.
Though I do not live in MN, I will answer some questions.Forgive my ignorance, I don't understand building a brew shed in a place like Minneapolis.
Brewing involves liquids, so are you going to heat the shed all winter so they don't freeze ? Are you going to ferment in the shed or just brew there ?
How do you handle discharging waste liquids from a shed ? Do you trench a sewer line into it ? Or dump everything onto the lawn ?
Where does your water supply come from ? I understand using a garden hose in the summer, but in the winter ?
Just curious.
I intended to hook the RV hose up each time I brewed. I'm not brewing daily, maybe weekly, but most likely every 2 weeks. I figured it was easy enough to bring the hose back into the shed when not in use.Bury RV hose below the freeze line. Only hook it up when in use for water supply. Could cheat and drain to lawn or could plumb in a drain. I dont think it would be too bad draining to lawn if not using nasty chemicals
That is correct, if there is a sink then yes, it should be hooked up to a permitted wastewater system, but if I'm draining water only, then I shouldn't have an issue. Before buying the shed I discussed in length with my neighbor. I don't have to, but I do. I do it each time I am making a change to the exterior of my house. I then call the HOA, then the permit office. My shed does not require a permit according to my Town. It is not large enough. The electrical did. I have the permit and had it before the work was done. Inspection is this week. They have already inquired about the shed and I provided them with measurements to show there is not breach of easement lines, the shed is more than 10' from any lot line, and no wall is over 12' in length. The electrical is all that needs to be permitted. I'm not trying to do this behind the town's back. This is my home and the town will make me move it if they see I didn't get the necessary permits. They are very diligent in this process.NC regulations will require the sink to be hooked up to a permitted wastewater system. The shed will also require a building permit since there will be electricity in it. Of course what the county doesn't know about...
I will only have to remove the hose. That is it. That is basically the purpose of the shed. My setup stays setup.I'm sure it *can* be done that way, the question is, why would you want to ? Brewing a 5 gallon batch involves using 6 gallons of water for the wort and another 4 to 6 gallons for waste products, cleaning, etc. Do you like carrying water around ? Do you like assembling and tearing down your equipment every brew session ?
Is it practical? No. I mean, I have an entire house to brew in and no one would stop me. However, I am thinking longer term and I felt the shed was a good choice, for me. It is hugely impractical to some, I know. From a cost standpoint, this is an investment, without a doubt. I even went as far as to speak to an appraiser about the shed. I wanted to be sure it did not decrease the value of the home. I understand it doesn't make sense for a hobby, but I believe similar amounts of money have been spent by others to outfit their basements. I don't have a basement, unfortunately.I get wanting to have a dedicated space for brewing. I understand that having a small building dedicated to brewing would be cool. But is it practical, especially when you start dealing with insulating, wiring and plumbing it ? You are essentially building a really small, stand alone house, just to have a place to brew.
And that is understood.I am going to heat and insulate my garage in the near future. And its already wired. Given all that, I still couldn't justify plumbing water and sewer into it just for brewing.
This is true. I won't be storing beer in there outside the ferm chamber. The garage, you're correct. I have to bring all my garage beer inside that currently sits on the floor next to the fridge when the temps start rising.I understand that people with freezing temps have a harder decision to make than those living in more temperate climates. However, my uninsulated garage is crazy hot in the summer. No way I could brew in it or store beer in it unless it was at least insulated, maybe even air conditioned. Most small buildings with windows are going to be this way.
I sure did think long and hard about it. I mean, I work hard for my money and basically this wasn't a small investment. It has been at least a year in the making. I considered other rooms of the house and knew that converting them into a brewery of sorts would be an issue if I were to sell later. I think the shed is right for me, it is clearly not right for you.So the minimal investment in one of these buildings is the shell, insulating it, wiring it and plumbing it. All for housing a brewstand for 1 brew session a month ? I'd have to think long and hard about that.
My neighbors are motivated. They're diligent and they were spoken to. They were given pictures of the shed, a site plan with the proposed shed drawn in so they could see how far out it would sit from my house and how much of it they were going to have to see. I then went over drainage of water, ensuring chemicals weren't going into the run off creek between and behind houses. I explained to them the electrical as I saw it. Because our HOA is essentially hands off, I told them they had the ultimate choice. I'm a very considerate neighbor. I consulted with all affected neighbors when I was having a fence built. I asked about material, style, and color. I did the same when I wanted to top off trees as well. Nothing else major has been done that needed consult.The problem with the shed is that you can't hide it. All it takes is one motivated neighbor and you've got an inspector at your door. And its really easy for them to order you to either bring the shed up to code or remove it. It is, after all, a shed, on skids, not on a poured foundation.
Building codes exist for a reason.
I won't interrupt your thread anymore.
$66 for the electrical permit, but right, no permit for the shed. I asked if the shed had electrical did the shed now need to be permitted, they said no due to the size. They did say if I was running water to the shed from my house and draining to the main wastewater drain then I would need another permit. Permits are much cheaper than having to move sheds or dismantle electrical and plumbing.I think the OP stated that her shed didn't require a permit, due to its size.
But yes, good point in general. If a permit is needed, it's better to have it than risk getting ratted out later by a nosy neighbor.
In my city, it's only $50 for the permit, and sheds under 120 sq. ft. don't require one. I have no idea what the fines are for not having a permit, but I think it's more than $50. I have heard stories from other communities where the city orders the removal of non-compliant sheds. Ditto for decks, porches, etc. Not worth the hassle.
See above about the electrical. I was surprised what it took to wire up the shed, that doesn't equate to total ignorance though. I will be carrying wastewater WITH chemicals to the house. I will not be carrying straight up water anywhere. I water my plants with hose water, I don't catch run off and run into the house to dump it. I wouldn't see the point here.I'm pretty sure that when you start running water and 100A power into a building, it ceases to be "shed" as the city intended and starts becoming something more like a mini dwelling. Different rules will apply.
I renovated a big house last year, dealt with all the permits and inspectors. I know a bit about building, wiring, plumbing, etc. If the OP was "surprised" at what it took to get power into the shed, some of the upcoming hurdles could be 10x what that was.
I'm certain that the OP is either going to be carrying waste water back into the house or installing permanent plumbing (ie sewage line) into the shed. Given it appears she is part of a condo setup, I doubt they are going to want the grass dug up to install the sewer line, so... ????
For me, a sink with a working drain is a brewing necessity. I've done it without one, I won't go back.
If I had absolutely no dedicated/shareable room to brew, I'd wire a 40-50A plug inside a cabinet in the kitchen and build a small electric brewstand on wheels and brew in the kitchen. Every kitchen has a sink, running water and a drain, which I think are essential for brewing.
I sure hope the OP placed her panel well outside of 6 to 8 feet away from where any water will be. The rule is usually that outlets and switches have to be far enough away so that one arm can't touch them while the other arm is immersed in water. Ie you can't reach the bathroom light switch while you have your other arm in the bathtub. If not, they have to be on a GFI circuit.
I'm going to try and address some thoughts that have been thrown out there.
You should've just started throat chopping people instead. This is your shed. Bunch of jelly brewers around here it sounds like.
That is a good solution too. And even better you can put a spigot on the receiving end on the shed and essentially 'jumper' to the house connection. I am thinking of something similar to install a slop sink in my garage.I intended to hook the RV hose up each time I brewed. I'm not brewing daily, maybe weekly, but most likely every 2 weeks. I figured it was easy enough to bring the hose back into the shed when not in use.
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