RIMS for Dummies

[rosienej]

As built...

and

Here are the parts...

Parts from McMaster-Carr
1 1 each 4550T141 Extreme-Temperature Heat Tape 13 Watts/Square Inch, 8 ft Length, 624 Watts, 120 V today $69.07 each 69.07
2 2 each 4464K51 Type 304 Stainless STL Threaded Pipe Fitting 1/2" Pipe Size, Tee, 150 PSI today $7.18 each 14.36
3 1 each 4813K124 Standard-Wall Type 304/304L SS Threaded Pipe 1/2" Pipe, 0.84" OD, 18" L, 13/16" Thread Length today $18.65 each 18.65
4 2 each 4464K234 Type 304 Stainless STL Threaded Pipe Fitting 1/2" Pipe Size, Square Head Plug, 150 PSI today $3.21 each 6.42
5 1 roll 9379K92 Ultra-High Temp Foil-Faced Insulation Strip 1/2" Thick, 2" X 12' today $11.39 roll 11.39

Merchandise total
$119.89 Of one section. I used two for a total of 1200 watts..

 

[Reelale]

And the advantage over an internal element is? It's a great design, I just don't see the utility over heating internally in a single tube.

 

[rosienej]

I didn't want to have to disassemble to clean the tube and heating element. Here, I pull the end plugs and run a long brush through the open tube. No advantage, just different.

Joel.

 

[Reelale]

I didn't want to have to disassemble to clean the tube and heating element. Here, I pull the end plugs and run a long brush through the open tube. No advantage, just different.

Joel.

Ah. Makes sense. That is an advantage then on a one-piece tube. I do have to manually clean the element on mine every time. Even when I CIP.

 

[pola0502ds]

I guess I really don't undestand how your rims tube works? Where is the source of heat to heat it externally?

 

[rosienej]

I wrap the pipes with the extreme temp heat tape (working temp of the pipe heating tape is really high) and then wrap the pipe and the heat tape with high temp insulation.

http://www.heatingtapes.com/tape.html

Make sure you use the correct type of insulation, the pipe insulation sold at home debit (etc) is not rated for the temp (smoke and maybe fire).

I tested the setup using a pressure relief valve on the heaters, but with constant flow, I never had an issue, so I removed it in the final form. If you loose flow, you could produce steam and pressurize the system, which would be bad.

Of course use GFI protected power only.


Joel

 

[rosienej]

Here is the lastest run of the system...

Joel

 

[rosienej]

Here is the whole process...

This is acquired with Labview, The batch sparging removes the sensor from the mashtun..

Here we ramped using the heaters... (about 5 gallons of water in the system with the grains)
the rise rate dropped to 6 to 7 degrees a minute...

I have a PID and new sensor which I will be interfacing next week to make the system independent of
the test stand. I will document these results as well.

Joel

 

[rosienej]

I am working on a automated HLT to inject a measured amount of brew water into the RIMS, should I post it here or start a new topic?

The build I am doing has the following features:

1) Computer Controlled Pump
2) Computer Controlled Electric Drum Heater
3) Digital (Pulse) flow meter to measure the amount of water into the mashtun
4) Check-valve to prevent backflow from mash
5) Pressure sensor to measure water in the HLT (and increase precision on the water transfer)
6) A PWM MEMS based temp sensor from Analog Devices.

All parts will be easy to get.

Joel

 

[pola0502ds]

I wrap the pipes with the extreme temp heat tape (working temp of the pipe heating tape is really high) and then wrap the pipe and the heat tape with high temp insulation.

http://www.heatingtapes.com/tape.html

Make sure you use the correct type of insulation, the pipe insulation sold at home debit (etc) is not rated for the temp (smoke and maybe fire).

I tested the setup using a pressure relief valve on the heaters, but with constant flow, I never had an issue, so I removed it in the final form. If you loose flow, you could produce steam and pressurize the system, which would be bad.

Of course use GFI protected power only.


Joel

I don't know whats going on but i still don't understand how your pipes are heating anything. Is there a element in them?

 

[pola0502ds]

what software are you using to get those graphs?

 

[rosienej]

I don't know whats going on but i still don't understand how your pipes are heating anything. Is there a element in them?

No heating element in them. I wrap the outside of the pipe with extreme heat tape (The tape is a heating wire inside of a shielding, which is powered by 110VAC). The heat is applied to the outside of the pipe, like the coil in a HERMS.

The pipe with the heat tape is the enclosed in insulation.

Joel

 

[rosienej]

what software are you using to get those graphs?

It is labview, I then added the labels.

 

[rosienej]

I don't know whats going on but i still don't understand how your pipes are heating anything. Is there a element in them?

The heating element is wrapped around the outside of the pipe. So the heat is applied to the pipe (like the coil in a HERMS). Insulation is applied to the heating element+ pipe to reduce heat loss from the heater to the air.

Joel

 

[rosienej]

what software are you using to get those graphs?

The graphs are acquired using LABVIEW, and then we take a screenshot and put on the lines and notes.


Joel

 

[pola0502ds]

The heating element is wrapped around the outside of the pipe. So the heat is applied to the pipe (like the coil in a HERMS). Insulation is applied to the heating element+ pipe to reduce heat loss from the heater to the air.

Joel

Okay, now that makes sense to me! Did I miss it, but what type of element are you using?

 

[P-J]

Okay, now that makes sense to me! Did I miss it, but what type of element are you using?

Yea, you missed it:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#4550T141

 

[rosienej]

As I add to the the RIMS system, I am finalizing my sensor package for the RIMS and for the Automatic HLT system which connects to the RIMS.

Parts are on the way, here is the initial design layout.

I plan to interface to an MBED or other processor to control the whole system.

Build pictures will follow.

Joel

 

[Sawdustguy]

As I add to the the RIMS system, I am finalizing my sensor package for the RIMS and for the Automatic HLT system which connects to the RIMS.

Joel

Joel,

I assume that you are going to use the Freescale sensor to measure the air pressure compressed by a column of water. When you incorporate this I think you may need to incorporate a bubbler system to increase accuracy. As the water heats up the air pressure dip tube will rise and eventually some air will bubble out of the dip tube. That air will need to be replaced for accurate readings. Thats where the bubbler system comes in. Here is a diagram:

Of course a better solution would be to find a wet pressure sensor.

 

[Emoneyblue]

Hello,

I want to know how much for the unit?


Eric aka emoneyblue

 

[pola0502ds]

I don't think anyone is selling theirs but you might find one in the classifieds. However, this thread made me do more research and I bought a complete rims tube setup without the element for $209. http://www.brewershardware.com/Tri-Clover-RIMS-Tube.html
Then find a element which is $10-$30. It's all tri-clamp but I think you can build the rims tube in this thread a lot cheaper which from my readings will work just as well. I have read this entire thread more than once but it was a while ago and I think there is updated pricing in some earlier posts.

 

[magnj]

So I guess I have some re-thinking to do. Is my batch ruined?

Was mounted horizontally above the mlt output and we had a stuck sparge. No surprise I guess. Going to mount it vertically, lower and redesign my braid.

 

[Dgonza9]

Sorry to see that happened to you. I'm now using a copper manifold and I put it into a nylon bag as insurance. Don't open the drain valve all the way, either. Hope you got some uses out of it before this happened. All things considered it's a cheap mishap, cept for the beer. No idea if it's ruined. Someone will know.

 

[magnj]

Sorry to see that happened to you. I'm now using a copper manifold and I put it into a nylon bag as insurance. Don't open the drain valve all the way, either. Hope you got some uses out of it before this happened. All things considered it's a cheap mishap, cept for the beer. No idea if it's ruined. Someone will know.

First day unfortunately but yea, 2 more on the way and 3 feet of braid to set up a loop rather than a 9 inch stub.

 

[tasq]

First day unfortunately but yea, 2 more on the way and 3 feet of braid to set up a loop rather than a 9 inch stub.

I highly recommend you look into malt conditioning as well. It makes a huge difference in my RIMS system.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/malt-conditioning-wow-rocks-144752/

 

[magnj]

I highly recommend you look into malt conditioning as well. It makes a huge difference in my RIMS system.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/malt-conditioning-wow-rocks-144752/

Wow that is perfect, thank you. I also need to check the gap on my BC. Kinda just took it out of the box and went with it...

 

[pola0502ds]

How much power is going to the element or what type is it? I wonder why that happened.

 

[magnj]

1500w low density from plumbing supply. It dry fired. the half that got burned up must have been the top half as it was laying horizontally on a table. My sparge got stuck a few times...

 

[Dgonza9]

First day unfortunately but yea, 2 more on the way and 3 feet of braid to set up a loop rather than a 9 inch stub.

I don't know that a loop is any less likely to get stuck than a straight braid.

Maybe do something to make sure the braid doesn't get crushed. Or go with a manifold. Do you use rice hulls? It helps.

Just my opinion, but I went thru this once I got my RIMS with slow, stuck sparges. I went the same route you went, from single braid to loop, ultimately to a manifold in a grain bag. Not saying that's the only way. Just giving you a heads up.

 

[pola0502ds]

1500w low density from plumbing supply. It dry fired. the half that got burned up must have been the top half as it was laying horizontally on a table. My sparge got stuck a few times...

Man, I have the same element. I put a sight glass in the middle of my RIMS tube so i can make sure it's completely filled up. I highly recommend that. Also, put it on a angle.

 

[rosienej]

All,

Finished the build (added the PID controller), and did my third run using the heat tape approach (sorry about the drip on the outside of the cooler).

Stats:

1) Still getting a 1 degree rise/minute on 9.5 lbs of grain 1.5 qts per pound.
2) Batch sparging at the end

Notes:
At the mashout I accidentally introduced air in the system and the pump stopped. The RIMS tube temp rapidly rose in temp, (about 170F), but by setting the outflow valve halfway to dump got the bubble out and restored the flow. Temp was back in range in less than 30 seconds.

I am going to add a flow alarm to the system.

Joel

 

[magnj]

I don't know that a loop is any less likely to get stuck than a straight braid.

Maybe do something to make sure the braid doesn't get crushed. Or go with a manifold. Do you use rice hulls? It helps.

Just my opinion, but I went thru this once I got my RIMS with slow, stuck sparges. I went the same route you went, from single braid to loop, ultimately to a manifold in a grain bag. Not saying that's the only way. Just giving you a heads up.

I appreciate the input. I'm already invested in braid v2 so I'll see how it goes... Here's what I'm thinking:

Basically a T, a 90 (or ideally a 45) on each end, a 1/2" nipple on each of them. I'm trying to both increase flow and limit deadspace. With a pickuptube my deadspace on hlt is 1.5qts

Additionally I think a small length of high temp hose will help me get lower and help with siphon.

The braid is from McMaster as are the stainless springs.

Man, I have the same element. I put a sight glass in the middle of my RIMS tube so i can make sure it's completely filled up. I highly recommend that. Also, put it on a angle.

Yea I'm definitely going to mount it vertically. Any thoughts on this configuration? bottom is element and in, top is probe and out.

 

[Quaffer]

Yea I'm definitely going to mount it vertically. Any thoughts on this configuration? bottom is element and in, top is probe and out.

That's real similar to mine. I only have a Sketchup image, but the real one is just like it. There will be no air pockets in this configuration.

 

[Ohio-Ed]

That's real similar to mine. I only have a Sketchup image, but the real one is just like it. There will be no air pockets in this configuration.

The good thing with the orientation in your pic is that it should eliminate air pockets and help with dry firing.
The last time I used my RIM's heater I had it in that orientation and ended up with "crud" burnt on the element. I think it may have been because of the small "dead space" below the input where bits of grain settled during circulation.

I'm now a little torn between horizontal versus vertical mounting.

Ed

 

[Dgonza9]

Vertical vs. horizontal mounting is largely psychological. As long as you don't have a stuck recirculation, then you should have no problems with dry firing. I find I check mine often to make sure flow is working fine. That's the real issue here, no?

I assume peace of mind only comes thru having a flow switch of some kind. RIMS is interesting as a system. I love dialing in my mash temps and sparge temps. But the constant checking for flow is a PITA. After a few stuck sparges here and there, I check often now.

eh, I checked the cooler often, too when I wasn't using RIMS. So it really doesn't matter.

 

[Quaffer]

The good thing with the orientation in your pic is that it should eliminate air pockets and help with dry firing.
The last time I used my RIM's heater I had it in that orientation and ended up with "crud" burnt on the element. I think it may have been because of the small "dead space" below the input where bits of grain settled during circulation.

I'm now a little torn between horizontal versus vertical mounting.

Ed

I have used my RIMS tube at 750W twice now. The first time I had a seriously stuck mash because of four pounds of flaked rye in a 10g batch. (Next time I'll use rice hulls for sure.) The second batch was a porter and it was trouble-free. In neither case did anything burn on to the element. Both times the element was covered in thin goop, like sloppy oatmeal or wallpaper paste, even after 30 minutes of circulating hot Oxiclean. It came off easily with a brush. The inside of the RIMS tube seemed spotless. I will attempt a step mash soon using all 3KW of RIMS power. Something ought to burn on then.

 

[Ohio-Ed]

I have used my RIMS tube at 750W twice now. The first time I had a seriously stuck mash because of four pounds of flaked rye in a 10g batch. (Next time I'll use rice hulls for sure.) The second batch was a porter and it was trouble-free. In neither case did anything burn on to the element. Both times the element was covered in thin goop, like sloppy oatmeal or wallpaper paste, even after 30 minutes of circulating hot Oxiclean. It came off easily with a brush. The inside of the RIMS tube seemed spotless. I will attempt a step mash soon using all 3KW of RIMS power. Something ought to burn on then.

I have used my RIM's heater many times with no problem and just a layer of "slime" as you describe when finished. But for what ever reason, the last time I used it, nothing special in the grain bill and no stuck mash, I ended up with "gunk" BAKED on. It may have nothing to do with the orientation, but I can't help wonder about the "dead" space below the input at the base of the element. I'm wondering just how much stuff settles there in direct contact with the element during circulation.

Ed

 

[pola0502ds]

So a question not related to what you guys are currently talking about.

With a RIMS setup, does it really matter how fast or slow you sparge considering your extracting most of the sugars when your mashing and recirculating?

 

[magnj]

I'd say it doesn't really matter in terms of your RIMS because at that point it's off and out of the loop.

Speed is more important if you are fly sparging (lower speed) and less important when batch sparging from what I understand.

 

[pola0502ds]

Well, i fly sparge with a autosparge (witch is awesome by the way), and on this batch of brew I did on Sunday, it went a little fast for me. i collected 13 gallons in 45 minutes. I'm hoping that wasn't to fast and I personally don't think it will be because of the rims recirculating prior to sparging. The only problem I did notice is that when you go fasten the core temp drops.