RIMS for Dummies

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pola0502ds said:
Ed do you have a picture of it? Also how did just adding a sight glass make it work better. Or did it make it easier for you to know it was working well.

Wow, if you thought about it then someone else has too or already done it. Or however that saying goes.
Click to expand...

The overall length of the site glass is about 6.5", there is about 3.5" of glass and it is about 3" in diameter. Here is a picture of it mounted in my RIMs tube:

IMG_3598.jpg


Ed
 
Thats very nice, what did you use to mount it in the horizontal position. I ordered the light glass and it will be very useful to me but it sure does add another bling factor! Do you have a pick of your whole system?
 
Thanks for everyone's input on my earlier dilemma. I ended up ghetto mounting it vertical for the test. I let it run for AWHILE to be sure no air was in it before turning element on. No meltdown this time =)

Here's a video I took.



Seem's to work. Think I'm gonna break in the RIMS and new brewstand I just finished Thursday or Friday, weather permitting.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Nice music in the video. So, you have your heating element at the inlet of the rims tube and temp prob at the outlet. Wouldn't you want the temp probe on the inlet so it's measuring the wort temp as it comes out of the kettle? The way you have it, it's measuring the wort coming right off the heating element but as soon as it enters the kettle it will drop back down until everything is heated up.
 
pola0502ds said:
So, you have your heating element at the inlet of the rims tube and temp prob at the outlet. Wouldn't you want the temp probe on the inlet so it's measuring the wort temp as it comes out of the kettle? The way you have it, it's measuring the wort coming right off the heating element but as soon as it enters the kettle it will drop back down until everything is heated up.
Click to expand...

No, you want to measure the output of the RIMS. You don't care what temperature the wort enters at, just how high to heat it.

On the horizontal/vertical issue, I set my RIMS horizontal and let it fill. With a clear hose on the output I then started to rotate it and watched for air bubbles. The last bubble came out when the tube was 5 deg. from horizontal. I then let the tube drain while at that angle and removed the element. There was no water surrounding the heating element, so I permanently mounted the RIMS at 5 deg. from horizontal. My RIMS is made from 1 1/2" pipe and tees. Things might be different for commercial units.
 
Regarding where to place the temp probe, if it is placed before the wort enters the kettle wouldn't you get false readings since what you really want is the wort inside the kettle to be at the target temp. I have not used mine yet but it seams to me that the wort would pass over the heating element and after it passed the heating element it would be at a temperature that is higher than your target temp which would then relay back to your PID to shut the element off.

If what you do works then it is what it is, i'm just trying to understand the science.
 
pola0502ds said:
Regarding where to place the temp probe, if it is placed before the wort enters the kettle wouldn't you get false readings since what you really want is the wort inside the kettle to be at the target temp. I have not used mine yet but it seams to me that the wort would pass over the heating element and after it passed the heating element it would be at a temperature that is higher than your target temp which would then relay back to your PID to shut the element off.

If what you do works then it is what it is, i'm just trying to understand the science.
Click to expand...

I have a temp probe in my MT and at the Output of my RIMS tube. The one in the RIMS tube is the one used to control the heating element, the one in the MT is for reference only.

If you controlled by the temp in the MT, you would basically boil the small volume of wort in the tube to try to heat the larger volume in the MT. You want to "gently" maintain and adjust the temps in the MT.

I typically have about 1 or 2 degree difference between the RIMS temp and the MT temp. So I start with my set point 2 degrees higher than my mash target. Over time, the difference gets smaller and I adjust the setpoint accordingly.

Ed
 
Ohio-Ed said:
The overall length of the site glass is about 6.5", there is about 3.5" of glass and it is about 3" in diameter. Here is a picture of it mounted in my RIMs tube:

IMG_3598.jpg


Ed
Click to expand...

Nice sight glass Ed. Is that the one I spotted on Ebay. When I was looking I bought mine for $64.00 from Vintners Vault. Thats my luck, I always find bargins when I have already spent the money. :cross::D
 
Sawdustguy said:
Nice sight glass Ed. Is that the one I spotted on Ebay. When I was looking I bought mine for $64.00 from Vintners Vault. Thats my luck, I always find bargins when I have already spent the money. :cross::D
Click to expand...

Guy,

It sure is!!!

I snatched one within a couple minutes of the time you posted the link. I had been looking at the one from St. Pats and your post was enough to tilt the scale.

Thanks for the heads up.

Ed
 
Just a heads up, if you want one of these sight glasses you need to purchase it now. i called the company selling these because the price listed on Ebay is cheaper than the one on their website. I wanted to make sure i wasn't getting a different or cheaper version of what I wanted and the guy told me they made a mistake. So purchase one if you want to save a few bucks now.
 
Just got my sight glass in and installed it. Here are pictures. Thanks for the lead ED.

4111 004.JPG


4111 005.JPG
 
pola0502ds said:
Just got my sight glass in and installed it. Here are pictures. Thanks for the lead ED.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the pics! I have all the same on order including glacier bay sight glass and love how it looks. Did not order the 90's but like your layout and may order a couple.

Couple of questions: Do you plan on putting the tube at a slight tilt (element / wort in end lower than temp sensor / wort out end)?

It looks like your temp sensor is on the right end, but there is a triclamp with barbed fitting on left end - is that where element will go?

I'd be interested in seeing the element installed and how you safe that up (i.e. epoxy, waterproof housing, etc)?

Thanks again for posting these pictures.
 
I am using the fixture from brewers hardware to house the element. See link below.

http://www.brewershardware.com/TC15F10NPSCOV.html

I don't know if those elbows will stay there. I bought a lot of 3 from ebay and i only need 1. They are used but stainless is stainless and they are in good condition. I bought all 3 for 14 bucks! He had 2 more lots of 3 elbows left when i bought mine and i bought mine on tuesday. Take a lot on ebay.

I was just playing around with them when I took that picture yesterday.
 
So my element arrived today. Not real sure how I arrived at this model (SP10867GL stainless), but I'm pretty sure it was from this thread. In looking at it, it's 208V, not 110, not 240. Anyone kind enough to educate me on whether this is going to work? I've read here that you can run 240 at 110 but it's 1/4 the output. Isn't 208 typically a 3 phase power source, not single phase? And if it will work, where does it put me output wattage wise running off 110? Any input / advice is greatly appreciated.

Don't worry, still in the planning stages and have no intention of going hot prior to having everything reviewed by someone who knows what they're doing.
 
gb043075 said:
So my element arrived today. Not real sure how I arrived at this model (SP10867GL stainless), but I'm pretty sure it was from this thread. In looking at it, it's 208V, not 110, not 240. Anyone kind enough to educate me on whether this is going to work? I've read here that you can run 240 at 110 but it's 1/4 the output. Isn't 208 typically a 3 phase power source, not single phase? And if it will work, where does it put me output wattage wise running off 110? Any input / advice is greatly appreciated.

Don't worry, still in the planning stages and have no intention of going hot prior to having everything reviewed by someone who knows what they're doing.
Click to expand...

Yes, 208V is a standard 3 phase voltage. In a 3 phase setup you'd have three of these elements, or one unit with three elements. I assume yours is just one heater with two terminals, right?
The following post has a 3 phase heater element in one unit.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/i-...brewing-system-106668/index8.html#post1238731

If you run a 208V element on 110V, you will get (110/208)² = .280, or 28.0% of the power it has at 208V. At 120V we get 33.3%, or a third.

It is safest not to try to run a 208V element on 240V. The manufacturer has the last word on this, but it is probably safe to assume they will not like it. 110 or 120V is fine though.
 
Quaffer said:
Yes, 208V is a standard 3 phase voltage. In a 3 phase setup you'd have three of these elements, or one unit with three elements. I assume yours is just one heater with two terminals, right?
The following post has a 3 phase heater element in one unit.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/i-decided-start-building-brewing-system-106668/index8.html#post1238731

If you run a 208V element on 110V, you will get (110/208)² = .280, or 28.0% of the power it has at 208V. At 120V we get 33.3%, or a third.

It is safest not to try to run a 208V element on 240V. The manufacturer has the last word on this, but it is probably safe to assume they will not like it. 110 or 120V is fine though.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. Sounds like I will be short on heat then - 28% of 2000w =560w. Guess I'll continue the build and I can always change the element out later when I confirm it's not enough to hold temps.

Thanks again for the explanation.
 
So i got my element and pid wired up and im doing some testing. But, i am having problems. The 7amp fuse i use to protect all the components keeps blowing. Anyone know why?

Next question, does anyone else have the auber 2362 PID? Can you share the program settings?

One thing i thought was odd was that the pid would turn the ssr on for 2 seconds and shut off for 2 seconds while it was cycling, to me it seems like it should run constant until it reaches the set valve and then run on/off for 2 seconds. It seems like its on manual mode but its not. This is the first time using a pid so im not sure if this is normal.
 
pola0502ds said:
So i got my element and pid wired up and im doing some testing. But, i am having problems. The 7amp fuse i use to protect all the components keeps blowing. Anyone know why?
Click to expand...
Your components are drawing more than 7 amps, or there is a short.
Next question, does anyone else have the auber 2362 PID? Can you share the program settings?

One thing i thought was odd was that the pid would turn the ssr on for 2 seconds and shut off for 2 seconds while it was cycling, to me it seems like it should run constant until it reaches the set valve and then run on/off for 2 seconds. It seems like its on manual mode but its not. This is the first time using a pid so im not sure if this is normal.
Click to expand...
Use the auto tune feature on your setup, and it will run full blast until it's hot, then brake like an F1 driver.
 
I tried the autotune feature and it did it for the first couple minutes so I shut it off.
 
Run the autotune to completion, with normal flow rates you experience when brewing. It's how the PID learns your system and sets the parameters needed to maintain the set-point without severe oscillations (overshoots and undershoots). Someone elses parameters many not be appropriate for your system.
 
Thanks reelale.

The autotune process, does this sound right, turn that feature on and then the pid, ssr and element turn on for 2 seconds and shut off for 2 seconds. I thought it would go full blast until target temp was reached.
 
pola0502ds said:
Thanks reelale.

The autotune process, does this sound right, turn that feature on and then the pid, ssr and element turn on for 2 seconds and shut off for 2 seconds. I thought it would go full blast until target temp was reached.
Click to expand...

Sounds about right to me. It's tuning itself to system variables and setting the PID parameters. After you run through the autotune then run it in automatic mode, it should behave normally.
 
pola0502ds said:
Thanks reelale.

The autotune process, does this sound right, turn that feature on and then the pid, ssr and element turn on for 2 seconds and shut off for 2 seconds. I thought it would go full blast until target temp was reached.
Click to expand...

During auto tune on my HLT, the lower (green) display alternates ones per second between set point temperature and a message. I think it says "At" or something similar. It takes several seconds to minutes for it to complete. It turns the heater on constantly until the set point is reached, then it turns it off while measuring the temperature decay. On a RIMS tube I suppose it could be over in a few seconds.
 
Thanks Quaffer, hey your the guy from the BYO mag showing up to build a keezer right?
 
Question about the autotune process. When I go to do it, what should I set my target value to? Should it be 30-40 degrees above the actual temp or should be 2-3 degrees above the actual temp?

Example, if your actual temp was 70 degrees would you set the target temp to 73 degrees or 100 degrees.
 
The autotune feature, once you do it you can never do it again correct? i did it once and something happened to my panel and i lost power. I don't think it finished the auto tune process but when I go to try and do it again it won't let me.

Also, How do you guys have your PID programmed? Say i have the temp set at 150, it will reach that and the PID will shut off power. Once it goes below 150 it will not turn back on until it reaches 147. Is there away to change that so it doesn't drop 3 degrees before it comes back on?
 
If it's an Auber PID, you can tune it as many times as you want. If you properly run the autotune, you won't see a 3 degree temperature oscillation.

You also have to be running the system with as close to the same conditions as you would when brewing while running the autotune. How did you have it set up when you ran the autotune?
 
The only things I changed or setup during the autotune was, I throttled back the valve so the liquid was moving at a rate of 1 gallon per minute. The PID can run at "limit control mode", "PID mode" and "manual", I set it to limit control mode. I think thats what they were called. But those are the only 3 changes I made.
 
Here's another question. I am only using 1 of the 2 alarams avaiable on my PID but the indicator light for the 2nd one still stays on as if it is programmed for a alarm. Is there anyway to turn that light off so I don't get confused?
 
The alarm is probably set for like 50 degrees. Just set it to 220 degrees and it won't turn on (hopefully). If it does, you're in a dry fire situation.
 
Has anyone had problems with their element rusting? I have the same element as the one listed on the parts list at the begining of this thread. I left some water in the rims tube for a few days, not knowing it, and then i took the element out and the base of the element rusted. I cleaned it up and nothing pitted or anything like that. It's almost like where the element connects to the base there wasn't a good seal so the water got inside and something produced rust. Anyway, i don't know if this element will work for brew days? I don't know if it will rust when I have wort in there for the time I will be mashing or what? But everytime i use this element i guess I will have to clean it.

Whats your experience been with elements and rusting?
 
Seems like it's been covered in this very thread, but yes, the base of the element will rust unless you cover it with silicone or use a sacrificial anode.
 
Do you know what posts it was cover in? I'm not about to read 80 pages of posts, it would take forever. Is there a way just to search this thread?
 
I was successful in using extreme temp pipe heaters over stainless steel pipe to make a RIMS systems. I can post details if there is interest.
 
Yes, please post. I'm sure there are people other than myself that would be interested.
 

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