styled like Toyota took Tesla's truck and morphed it into a sedan - meh
Poll: Do you have, or plan to get, an electric car?
- Thread starter Oldpaddy
- Start date
Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:
Boat draggers might jump at this when it arrives...
https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/07/business/stellantis-ramcharger/index.html
https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/07/business/stellantis-ramcharger/index.html
It's almost like someone over there at Ram was listening to me 
https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/07/business/stellantis-ramcharger/index.html
https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/07/business/stellantis-ramcharger/index.html
I swear you beat me by about 2 seconds on that one...
A BEV and a PHEV of the same vehicle at the same time...
If the cost isn't too different, I'll go with the BEV
If the cost isn't too different, I'll go with the BEV
As will most people. But you're not the target market for this vehicle.
The target market is the guy I brought up a few weeks ago who tows often will have trouble with a BEV truck, and people like him. In his case it wasn't a problem of "range anxiety". It was a problem of "range reality" not meeting his needs, but specifically only in one use case. Problem is that use case is too common for a BEV trick to fit. A PHEV truck would give all the benefits of the BEV when used in daily driver mode, but make it a functional tow vehicle too.
I think this was Toyoda's recurring refrain in explain why Toyota wasn't leaping aggressively into BEV production. An electric in-vehicle that can also work for long trips powered by petroleum.
Apparently, we're so good at building ICEs that it's cost effective to include a gas engine with an otherwise electric rig, instead of adding massive battery capacity.
But as we all know, even our best ICEs have many moving parts, substantial maintenance requirements, and that nasty-but-miraculous peteoleum stuff. Still the right choice for many buyers. Dang.
I took my wife’s Outback for brakes and a new battery today. Besides the brutal shock of maintenance costs, I had another revelation which almost became problematic: I no longer monitor fuel level.
It’s so rare for me to have to concern myself with paying attention to “fuel tank” levels that I nearly ran out of gas. I never need to worry about “range” in my Tesla.
It’s so rare for me to have to concern myself with paying attention to “fuel tank” levels that I nearly ran out of gas. I never need to worry about “range” in my Tesla.
NickTheGreat
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2012
- Messages
- 1,289
- Reaction score
- 529
It's almost like someone over there at Ram was listening to me
https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/07/business/stellantis-ramcharger/index.html
I'm not a Dodge guy, but I'd buy this next time up. I'll frequently take 200 or 300 mile trips and I don't want to mess with charging stations or walk up to my FIL with an extension cord at Thanksgiving.
I am at least 50% Dodge Guy (and 50% Audi Guy), having owned Durangos since 2005, currently on a 2017 R/T, and I drag a boat, often up to our NH place, 150 miles north. I could be tempted to buy that hybrid when I replace the R/T...
Cheers!
Cheers!
FYI the Ram truck is not a Dodge. Look it up.
I love my Ram and I'd gladly get that hybrid next time. Seems like a sweet mix.
Anyone know if BEVs or HEVs have an aversion to occasional dunking, at least up to the rear axles if not near the wheel arches?
That would be a problem...
Cheers!
That would be a problem...
Cheers!
A lot more detail on the RAM hybrid here:
https://news.yahoo.com/electric-vehicle-sales-growth-slowing-002712095.html
There's potentially so much cool stuff one can do with traction motors behind a genset (could cut the drama on slick boat ramps), and using the battery and even genset to power a home through an outage, I can only wonder what the price tag is going to be for all the goodies....
Cheers!
https://news.yahoo.com/electric-vehicle-sales-growth-slowing-002712095.html
There's potentially so much cool stuff one can do with traction motors behind a genset (could cut the drama on slick boat ramps), and using the battery and even genset to power a home through an outage, I can only wonder what the price tag is going to be for all the goodies....
Cheers!
Mine has been dunked many times while launching my jetski. The battery compartment is fully sealed. Teslas for example can drive almost fully submerged for a short time.
This Tesla wasn't quite up to the full immersion challenge 
https://news.yahoo.com/tesla-model-x-briefly-serves-173000545.html
https://news.yahoo.com/tesla-model-x-briefly-serves-173000545.html
Lyndon Johnson wouldn't place an order, 'eh?
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2012
- Messages
- 3,368
- Reaction score
- 4,286
- Location
- Either in the brewery or on the road
Referring to the amphibious convertible that LBJ would “drive” into the lake with unsuspecting guests to the Ranch?
Was it just one, or did LBJ have a small collection of amphibious cars?
NickTheGreat
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2012
- Messages
- 1,289
- Reaction score
- 529
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2012
- Messages
- 3,368
- Reaction score
- 4,286
- Location
- Either in the brewery or on the road
I was thinking it may have just been one. It was a funky looking little roadster type vehicle. Front bucket seats and a rear bench as I recall. Tiny little up front IC engine and conventional drivetrain of sorts, and an under-carriage driveshaft that spun a submerged prop on the back. The front and rear sloped up to accommodate entering and exiting a shoreline embankment.
I thought it looked like a Sunbeam Alpine with rear seats. LBJ used to load up a few unsuspecting first-time visitors to the ranch, take ‘em for a joyride across some pasture, and then fake going out of control and plunge into a nearby pond. Weird sense of humor.
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2012
- Messages
- 3,368
- Reaction score
- 4,286
- Location
- Either in the brewery or on the road
We’re potentially going to become a 2 car household, and my experience with the Tesla has me seriously considering a PHEV assuming I can get one cheap. My 7 mile commute would finally let me make the “I’ve only bought one tank of gas” comment
Hey, I noticed a post in another thread and I hope the author doesn't give me grief for responding here
I assume that, if we don't have a software solution in the next few years, some 'triage' will have to be done. But before that, maybe the family considers how they can reduce the trips they're making. It could be a good day to carpool, or take the bus, or bike. Perhaps they will decide that someone needs to use public charging that day. Maybe the high schoolers live close enough to school that their round trip will be covered by plugging into a regular, household outlet overnight. Hopefully at least one parent lives close enough to their work that they don't need much for the next day. But I think it starts with attentive parenting, family communication, and knowing what your vehicles can do.
It wouldn't surprise me if the average changed over time.
In places with lots of apartments and no access to a garage, landlords might see a benefit to offering charging in the parking lot, or we might need to get creative finding more public charging spots.
I assume that, if we don't have a software solution in the next few years, some 'triage' will have to be done. But before that, maybe the family considers how they can reduce the trips they're making. It could be a good day to carpool, or take the bus, or bike. Perhaps they will decide that someone needs to use public charging that day. Maybe the high schoolers live close enough to school that their round trip will be covered by plugging into a regular, household outlet overnight. Hopefully at least one parent lives close enough to their work that they don't need much for the next day. But I think it starts with attentive parenting, family communication, and knowing what your vehicles can do.
It wouldn't surprise me if the average changed over time.
In places with lots of apartments and no access to a garage, landlords might see a benefit to offering charging in the parking lot, or we might need to get creative finding more public charging spots.
I'm not gonna comment on the "mom and dad carpool with neighbors and jody and buffy ride their bikes". But to suggest the average power required by a home might change over time, that one I can get behind. Seems obvious. It's gonna go much higher.
Standardized battery packs that take 30 seconds to swap in and out at a gas station would go a long way to addressing most concerns about how long it takes to recharge. Kinda like the propane tank exchanges many gas stations around here in Minnesota do.
I’m about to leave for work, but this seems like a reasonable question to answer with some napkin-math. Our car takes ~280Wh/mi (supposedly) so if you multiply that by the average aggregate household commute you would get a daily power drain for charging. Compare that to peak-to-trough daytime vs. nighttime power usage and see which is greater.
I’m guessing EV usage, but not by much…
I think Tesla did that briefly, and it never caught on. With the unibody construction (and other techniques where the battery forms part of the car’s structure) it seems like we’re rapidly moving away from this being an option, unfortunately.
Thinking about the traffic at my local gas station even out here in the wilderness, I don't think the "pack swap" paradigm could ever work with current battery tech, even if there was standardization at the pack level that made the swap time as short as the typical time to fill an ICE vehicle. My little station would need to keep hundreds of packs on hand and have the charge capability to manage them all. Seems overwhelming to me...
Cheers!
Cheers!
I didn't suggest that scenario. I just gave a list of options. And I started off by suggesting that there will be software solutions to the issues soon. I also ended by emphasizing how communication is important. I didn't explicitly state it, but everyone knowing everyone else's schedule could help avoid situations like these. If Jody and Buffy know that mom & dad need the charger on Wednesday, they might make different decisions on Monday and Tuesday that keep them from needing to charge that night.
But let's say they all let themselves get to low and they can't all charge. The most plausible solution is that the kids don't get to fast charge unless someone uses public charging.
I remember being a teenager and rarely being able to completely fill my gas tank. Driving to school was a privilege for me. I'm sure that if my family had been caught in a situation like that, I would have had to ride the bus. And I'm sure my parents would have explained to me that I needed to pay closer attention to my fuel level, plan ahead, and remember that they need to be able to charge, while it was a luxury for me to be able to drive to school.
If one of my siblings had been close enough in age and we didn't have conflicting after school activities, I'm sure we would've had to carpool. But if mom and dad needed to charge in this hypothetical, they would have been the ones changing.
And I'm sure that two vehicles charging simultaneously is going to be pretty common. I'm pretty sure that there is already charging equipment that can handle that.
Something weird would have to happen for everyone to leave their vehicle in the garage/driveway the next morning.
If you're talking about the same Jody and Buffy who always bring the ICE cars back home running on fumes and expect Mom and Dad to gas them up, then I wouldn't hold my breath.
Terrible inconvenience over home charging. May as well stick with gas.
Sounds like an even better reason to have them ride the bus for a couple days/weeks. If you can't take the responsibility of keeping your vehicle fueled/charges up, you don't need to drive.
Well sure, but parents these days...
Assuming home charging is available, how hard is it to switch cords? Or even better, plug in all 4 with splitters and set the apps to stagger charging times. That’s an already available function.
42A of charging at 220V = 9.2kW/h = 33 mi/hr of charge.
The question really then is if your household as a whole drives more than 260 miles per consecutive day per circuit.
My guess is Jody and Buffy typically grab the ICE car at a quarter tank and don’t want to pay to fill it. For an EV they’re grabbing it at “full” every time and the cost to charge comes from the household electric bill.
Apparently we have very different life experiences.
So nobody here has any experience with teenagers who can't be bothered to plug in a cord and parents who will complain loudly but can't bring themselves to actually impose consequences? Really?
edit - in that case, sorry for the digression
Wouldn’t these hypothetical teenagers do the same with gas? It’s even less convenient than plugging in a cord at home. Especially for the parent after the fact.
Re-read #1750. My point was that the hypothetical teenagers will behave exactly the same with charging as they would with gas. I'm not saying this is an argument against EVs. I just don't expect EVs to change basic family dynamics.
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2012
- Messages
- 3,368
- Reaction score
- 4,286
- Location
- Either in the brewery or on the road
. Assuming there’s a ‘/s’ implied.
I anticipate having enough trouble getting my kids to take my advice on such things. I can't concern myself with parents who aren't going to listen when I suggest that maybe they need to take away keys once in a while to teach their children about consequences and responsibility.
Similar threads
- Poll
