Do you consider electric/automated brewing equipment to be cheating?

[ITV]

 

[FloppyKnockers]

I said 'yes', but it's not bad cheating. Lemme explain... It's not what you would call traditional, but it's not what our beer fathers did. I have a controller for my bbq, but I wouldn't say it's not 'real' bbq. Much like I wouldn't say automation for Beer isn't real, it's just getting some help. So it's not like cheating, cheating - more of an advantage.

 

[PCABrewing]

Cheating.

Carrier Pigeon or nothing.

But carrier pigeon is possibly faster than USPS and probably makes fewer delivery errors.

(I apologize if I offend any USPS team members on here but my route is a mess whenever the regular carrier is off.)

 

[day_trippr]

^don't even get me started on the USPS^

 

[passedpawn]

View attachment 842363

I read his books, and loved the stories about him. Great guy.

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

We were evicted from our hole in the ground; we had to go live in the lake.

 

[ClaudiusB]

I love automation and have never brewed in over 20 years without it. For some of us, a temperature controller is it and for others sending a grain bill to the grain processing system is required to get the correct grain milled and delivered to the mashtun.
My first brewing computer exposure was in the early 90th, two pics.
I was ridiculed on Homebrewtalk for supporting automation, and shiny brewing equipment after I joined. The same people have migrated to the same shiny equipment from plastic buckets and I never told them they were wasting their kids' college
funds.

 

[HM-2]

AIO electric brewing systems are "cheating" in the same way that having a car that starts at the turn of a key or push of a button instead of needing to be manually cranked with a handle is "cheating".

Or cooking food in a sous vide instead of manually controlling the temperature of water in a pan for 12 hours is.

And that way is "not".

 

[whoaru99]

Only if you feel like you're cheating yourself out of some other experience.

 

[sibelman]

Only if you feel like you're cheating yourself out of some other experience.

This!

I get that some folks love automation, and/or want to brew like the big boys. I love some automation but don't want it to go too far. [insert skillful analogy to vibrators here]

I want to feel involved in the process, but also to automate tasks that feel burdensome. That's a movable boundary for sure.

As part of a fancy kitchen remodel, my cousin bought a built-in espresso-drink machine. Just push a button. Too easy? Cheating?

If a machine or process makes beer well and allows for improvement, go for it. If it locks you in and limits your options, maybe it's too automated.

 

[ClaudiusB]

This!

I get that some folks love automation, and/or want to brew like the big boys. I love some automation but don't want it to go too far. [insert skillful analogy to vibrators here]

I want to feel involved in the process, but also to automate tasks that feel burdensome. That's a movable boundary for sure.

As part of a fancy kitchen remodel, my cousin bought a built-in espresso-drink machine. Just push a button. Too easy? Cheating?

If a machine or process makes beer well and allows for improvement, go for it. If it locks you in and limits your options, maybe it's too automated.

"I want to feel involved in the process, but also to automate tasks that feel burdensome."
I do give the brewer a choice to be involved, but the automation is watching over the brewer in the background.
The system may not let the brewer proceed if switches are set wrong or sensors are malfunctioning.
The automatic water, hops, and grain deliveries are disabled. The brewer has to, based on the recipe, get the grains from the silos or storage containers, weigh the different grains, and put them into the mill. After milling the operator lets the system know to transport the milled grains to the mash tun, 35ft.
The same applies to the correct brewing water volume, hops, etc.
The pictures below are from the control room, the brewery has different displays.

 

[MicroMickey]

Are you growing your own grain? Do you harvest that grain and malt it? Do you crush that malt under a large mill stone? Do you collect pond water for your brewing? Do you fell trees for firewood instead of using electricity or propane? Perhaps we're all cheaters.

 

[Somesaymybeerisdrinkable]

Are you growing your own grain? Do you harvest that grain and malt it? Do you crush that malt under a large mill stone? Do you collect pond water for your brewing? Do you fell trees for firewood instead of using electricity or propane? Perhaps we're all cheaters.

Don't forget forging your own kettle.

 

[JAReeves]

Don't knock blacksmithing in your back yard; it worked for Nero.

 

[sibelman]

the control room, the brewery

I take it this is some brewing software you're involved in. Though (as my posts above indicate) this is not really my kind of thing, I'm a bit curious. Care to post a link to more about the system you've highlighted?

 

[ClaudiusB]

I take it this is some brewing software you're involved in. Though (as my posts above indicate) this is not really my kind of thing, I'm a bit curious. Care to post a link to more about the system you've highlighted?

"I take it this is some brewing software you're involved in." This is for my home brewing system. I write my brewery applications for the hardware I use to meet my requirements. All the control hardware for the brewery I purchased from Automation Direct.
AutomationDierect
In 1990 I used a different brand of controllers which I quickly replaced after a short time with AD.

 

[lumpher]

Don't knock blacksmithing in your back yard; it worked for Nero.

He didn't do it professionally. He just fiddled around with it while his forge burned.

 

[FugacityBrews]

"I take it this is some brewing software you're involved in." This is for my home brewing system. I write my brewery applications for the hardware I use to meet my requirements. All the control hardware for the brewery I purchased from Automation Direct.
AutomationDierect
In 1990 I used a different brand of controllers which I quickly replaced after a short time with AD.

You’re running your three vessel system with a PLC? That’s kind of badass.

 

[sibelman]

Automation Direct.

A quick look suggests you can get a lot going on for not a giant amount of cash with their PLC stuff. Have you got electric valves too?

 

[ClaudiusB]

You’re running your three vessel system with a PLC? That’s kind of badass.

I use multiple PLCs to cut down on running too many very long cables. The controllers are connected through powerline ethernet modules for data sharing. The brewing and grain processing system can be controlled locally without going through the control room, worldwide access is also possible.
"You’re running your three vessel system" A few more. I have a separate Whirlpool tank and a second mash tun too.

 

[ClaudiusB]

A quick look suggests you can get a lot going on for not a giant amount of cash with their PLC stuff. Have you got electric valves too?

Yes, and manual valves including a flow diverter board. I used pneumatic butterfly valves in the past but ran out of air supply quickly because the grain processing system requires a lot of air to move the grain around.

 

[MicroMickey]

In 1990 I used a different brand of controllers which I quickly replaced after a short time with AD.

In 1990, I was brewing on my stovetop. My wife couldn't stand the smell of boiling hops so I changed brewing my location to outside of the house.

 

[duelerx]

Automatization of grunt work is not cheating in my book. I couldn't care less when I was younger and I brewed 5 gallon batches. But with so much less time and add back pain, I am all for electric equipment, also now I care more about flavor profile than "this is the fun way to do it".

 

[deuc224]

I went all in and started with all grain and brewtools, so I dont know any other way lol. Not cheating

 

[OleBrewing]

I hope they start cheating at fast food joints so my burger and cheese are centered on the bun.

 

[Deadalus]

Thermometers are cheating.

 

[Kickass]

Yes! Which is why I build a 1V, 240 EBIAB system. If you ain’t cheating, you ain’t trying.

 

[BrewZer]

I wish someone would automate the bottle process... I'd cheat like hell with that!

 

[passedpawn]

I wish someone would automate the bottle process... I'd cheat like hell with that!

drink out of the fermentor. I remember reading people saying that did that. Jeepers.

 

[JAReeves]

drink out of the fermentor. I remember reading people saying that did that. Jeepers.

A 5 gallon beer bong?