Poll: Do you have, or plan to get, an electric car?

[betarhoalphadelta]

If that is the case your friend is mostly interested in time savings then he indeed is not taking all the proper factors into account. Since 95% or more of charging is done at home and said charging takes 30 seconds or less to plug/unplug in the car, added up he is without a doubt wasting more time in a year standing by his car watching the gas pump then he ever will waiting for a charge.

Bigoil has done a great job muddying the waters where EV is concerned. One has to give them credit for doing remarkably well swaying the mathematically impaired and scientifically weak of mind. But in your friends case, the smart dude that considers all the facts, sadly he is overlooking some key facts that are skewing his calculations.

Well, I left a little bit out. BTW I have never met him but we have interacted on a message board for well over a decade now, and we have a thread similar to this one about EVs, so it's something we've all discussed at length... I know he works from home primarily (even pre-COVID), with maybe one trip to the office per week. So I don't think he's necessarily putting tons of non-towing miles on that truck either. I don't know if his annual mileage is necessarily enough to make the cost of fuel or the time spent fueling on the "day to day" driving really that much of an issue. I doubt he's racking up 100 miles a day and filling his tank multiple times per week. Honestly I think if he was, he'd probably buy a BEV or a super-efficient ICEV for daily driving and only use the truck for towing. He's at a point in his career that I'm sure he can afford an extra vehicle if it made economic sense.

He's actually said that a PHEV truck with robust towing capacity would be ideal and he'd be the number 1 target customer for such a vehicle. He could do all of his daily driving on battery and only need the ICE engine for towing. But that animal doesn't exist. And he just can't live with the towing range limitations for a BEV.

You guys keep saying "well if he really thought about it, he'd realize that a BEV is WAY better than his truck!" I trust that he's actually looked at the totality of the situation, and he's the example of the person who a BEV simply doesn't work for because of how he uses his truck.

And I brought him up as an example of probably a bigger set of truck owners. We all think of the truck owners whose vehicles are basically grocery-getters or commuters and rarely do "truck stuff". But there are a bunch of truck owners that do a LOT of "truck stuff" and many of them are using their trucks in a way that just doesn't work well with a BEV.

Which is why I think that prioritizing BEV trucks may have been a bad move for the big automakers. The consumers who want a "truck" rather than a truck already have Rivian. The ones who want to do truck stuff are still buying ICEV.

 

[Bilsch]

I'm always surprised by the number of edge cases in any discussion of electric vehicles vs ICEV online. From what I read almost daily it would seem the vast majority of drivers are pushing to the extreme far (or near side) of their vehicles operating envelopes such that what used to be unusual is now seemingly the norm.

I never personally did a 1000 mile, no stop except for gas, pee in the bottle, brought a bag of chips, towing up hill both directions cannon ball run. But apparently, if one believes Facebook and the like, almost every pickup truck driver does that at least weekly. Sometimes twice.

 

[Kent88]

I know, right? But I do occasionally see trucks on the road that aren't towing anything.

 

[Airborneguy]

I’ve written posts nearly word the same as yours!

It’s mindboggling.

Just add, “while crossing the Sierra Nevadas in a blizzard.”

 

[Kent88]

I can't be a unique case, and I went a few years without a vehicle that could tow anything. I think about the number of times that was an issue, and it was almost not at all. The only reason I caved with my current jeep is that I wanted to buy a better bike carrier. Besides that bike carrier, I've only pulled a uhaul a few times.

 

[whoaru99]

I never personally did a 1000 mile, no stop except for gas, pee in the bottle, brought a bag of chips, towing up hill both directions cannon ball run. But apparently, if one believes Facebook and the like, almost every pickup truck driver does that at least weekly. Sometimes twice.

Part of what I do is with what is basically a rapid response team.

We do not go on these rapid response situations like every week but the type of trip you describe accounts for probably 80-90% of the 80k and counting miles on that pickup truck.

It has a V6 and the extra capacity fuel tank. The fuel range gauge typically shows 600+ miles on a fill. On those trips it is par for the course to burn up 500+ miles before stopping other than a quick pee break and grab something approximating food on the fly.

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

Just saw this thread. I think an EV would be great. Once they start making EV's that actually work. I mean cars that don't pose a horrible fire risk when parked indoors and in accidents, take less than 5 minutes to charge, and have charging stations all over America, just like gas stations.

Anything with a real, working range of under 300 miles is of no interest to me. My existing gas hog can go that far. My diesel will do 500. If I had the misfortune to live in a city and commute to work, an EV might work for me even now, but I would also want a real car.

I wouldn't have a Tesla. I admire Elon Musk, but his car company is an authoritarian cult. Maybe someone else will do better.

Electric motors are better than gas motors in lots of ways. Surely we won't rely on internal combustion forever. I'm sure some day they'll work the EV bugs out.

I have a couple of cordless chainsaws. Really wonderful, especially since our gasoline was ruined so it made maintaining small engines extremely difficult. For big jobs, gas is still the only option, but I can cut up a pretty good-sized oak and haul it off without burning fuel. I never have to buy new carburetors for these saws or put old carbs in the sonic cleaner. I never find myself out in the field with a saw that won't start. I just push the button and cut.

 

[Kent88]

Just saw this thread. I think an EV would be great. Once they start making EV's that actually work.

They do. I drive a PHEV and it works fantastic. It works so well I want my next vehicle to be a BEV. There have been a few testimonials on this thread where PHEV and EV owners have shared their experiences with their vehicles. You are free, even encouraged to check them out.

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

Maybe after another 100,000 miles of gas and another 200,000 of diesel. I don't buy cars unless I have to!

A hybrid isn't an EV. I don't see the point in putting a gas engine in a car and pretending it's electric. Don't you still have to buy gas and deal with internal combustion headaches? I see stuff on the web about a PHEV having a 20-mile range before the engine kicks in. Surely that can't be right.

I could see getting something awful like a Prius if I had to take long drives regularly. A buddy of mine buys used Priuses for business travel. I would wear a ski mask to hide my shame, but it would save money.

A cordless tractor would be nice. No ear plugs.

 

[Airborneguy]

Just saw this thread. I think an EV would be great. Once they start making EV's that actually work. I mean cars that don't pose a horrible fire risk when parked indoors and in accidents, take less than 5 minutes to charge, and have charging stations all over America, just like gas stations.

Anything with a real, working range of under 300 miles is of no interest to me. My existing gas hog can go that far. My diesel will do 500. If I had the misfortune to live in a city and commute to work, an EV might work for me even now, but I would also want a real car.

I wouldn't have a Tesla. I admire Elon Musk, but his car company is an authoritarian cult. Maybe someone else will do better.

Electric motors are better than gas motors in lots of ways. Surely we won't rely on internal combustion forever. I'm sure some day they'll work the EV bugs out.

I have a couple of cordless chainsaws. Really wonderful, especially since our gasoline was ruined so it made maintaining small engines extremely difficult. For big jobs, gas is still the only option, but I can cut up a pretty good-sized oak and haul it off without burning fuel. I never have to buy new carburetors for these saws or put old carbs in the sonic cleaner. I never find myself out in the field with a saw that won't start. I just push the button and cut.

I’ve read variations on this exact post 5000 times. It’s gotta be a copy and paste.

 

[Bilsch]

Just saw this thread. I think an EV would be great. Once they start making EV's that actually work. I mean cars that don't pose a horrible fire risk when parked indoors and in accidents, take less than 5 minutes to charge, and have charging stations all over America, just like gas stations.

You just saw this thread though I get the impression didn't read it before hitting us with all the old tired anti EV memes. Anyway I'll take the first one because it's my favorite of all the horribly incorrect information regarding batteries in electric cars. And that is: You are statistically 61 times more likely to have a fire in an ICE then in an EV and hybrids are even worse. The risk is so lopsided the argument is comical and yet people continue trotting out this tired oil company FUD. It's easy enough to google "fires in EV vs BEV" where you'll find the web pages all report similar findings.

TL;DR- Don't park your gas vehicle in the garage.

 

[Airborneguy]

^ for multiple reasons, but definitely the one they most often mention.

Our gas car sits outside for safety reasons. My Tesla gets the garage since its safer and can be warmed up inside.

But most of all, I thank Clint for his commitment to paying my road taxes so so many more miles.

 

[Kent88]

Maybe after another 100,000 miles of gas and another 200,000 of diesel. I don't buy cars unless I have to!

Neat

A hybrid isn't an EV. I don't see the point in putting a gas engine in a car and pretending it's electric. Don't you still have to buy gas and deal with internal combustion headaches? I see stuff on the web about a PHEV having a 20-mile range before the engine kicks in. Surely that can't be right.

My PHEV functions a lot like a BEV, as in the summer it's my spouse's primary vehicle to drive to work. The Volt goes over 50 miles per full charge on the summer. Her work is under 20 miles away. There are weeks she doesn't burn gas at all. The summer after the pandemic started we put 3000 miles on before needing to refill the 9 gallon tank.

I could see getting something awful like a Prius if I had to take long drives regularly. A buddy of mine buys used Priuses for business travel. I would wear a ski mask to hide my shame, but it would save money.

Prius isn't something I've been interested in. I was always laser focused on the Volt. I think there's a Prius Prime PHEV now? Not something I am particularly interested in. But I guess if you're insecure, you can grab a balaclava.

A cordless tractor would be nice. No ear plugs.

I have previously linked to information on electric tractors. I think John Deere's is called SEESAM or SAMSEE or something like that.

 

[Bilsch]

But most of all, I thank Clint for his commitment to paying my road taxes so so many more miles.

He and others pay mine too and I really do appreciate that.

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

There is a huge difference between an EV fire and a fire in a gas car.

As for your road taxes, don't be so cocky. States are now catching up, imposing taxes on EV owners. You will pay eventually.

 

[Kent88]

Let's all cool it on the tax talk, we aren't in Debate.

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

Hey, I wasn't trying to make you angry. When I think the product is ready, I'll jump on like everyone else.

 

[Airborneguy]

It’s frustration over hearing/seeing the same misinformation over and over and over again. Like I said above, less than 24 hours ago before you got here.

 

[Airborneguy]

Well 1. they work, 2. they pose a ridiculously lower fire risk than gas cars, and 3. there are chargers all over the country, tons of them. Not to mention any outlet but that’s another story…

There’s the blatant misinformation.

The rest of your post is personal opinion. You’re entitled to that.

 

[Bilsch]

Well 1. they work, 2. they pose a ridiculously lower fire risk than gas cars, and 3. there are chargers all over the country, tons of them.

4. They are a fraction of the cost to fuel per mile.
5. Maintenance is almost nil with overall cost of ownership lower.
6. Faster, quieter and more fun to drive. (ok that is subjective)
7. Far lower lifetime emissions no matter where your electricity comes from.
8. Fuel-able at home with electrons you can make yourself from the sun.
9. Safer. Not just a little but a lot safer.
10. Batteries are fully recyclable at less cost then mining new.

I figured I'd expand on your list just for fun.

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

They don't "work" unless they're practical, and they are not, for most people. As for the chargers, let's be honest. They are not nearly as common as you imply. I have never seen one. I drive all over my county. I have no idea where I would go to find a fast charger. Plugging into my garage is not an acceptable alternative. I can't carry my garage in my "frunk." And EV's take forever to charge. And you're ignoring the huge difference between EV fires and gas fires.

I'm not against EV's. I'm against premature adoption. They forced horrible, poisonous curly fluorescent bulbs on us before they were ready, and then LED bulbs were perfected. I've thrown a lot of curly bulbs in the trash, because they were worthless. I have LED's all over my house.

I hope we don't get into Tesla roofs. What an enormous failure. I wanted one, and then I found out what they're really like.

 

[Bilsch]

On a more amusing note.. if I was a drug lord or lived in Tijuana I'd have to have one of these. Those are .45 caliber dents.

 

[Bilsch]

They don't "work" unless they're practical, and they are not, for most people. As for the chargers, let's be honest. They are not nearly as common as you imply. I have never seen one. I drive all over my county. I have no idea where I would go to find a fast charger. Plugging into my garage is not an acceptable alternative. I can't carry my garage in my "frunk." And EV's take forever to charge. And you're ignoring the huge difference between EV fires and gas fires.

I'm not against EV's. I'm against premature adoption. They forced horrible, poisonous curly fluorescent bulbs on us before they were ready, and then LED bulbs were perfected. I've thrown a lot of curly bulbs in the trash, because they were worthless. I have LED's all over my house.

There are over 160,000 charging places in the US alone. I never have a problem finding one. If you tell me what state you live in I'll send you a map of every one. The reality is It doesn't take that long to charge at all. I plug in, hit the restroom grab a little snack and am away. It's true older EV's like the Leaf took a while due to poor design but that is a thing of the past now for most. I know people like to fixate on the 2 or 3 battery fires that were spectacular however in reality, and mathematically, it's rather hard to make the claim that 61 ICE fires of any kind is better than 1 EV fire. You might ask an insurance company which scenario they would prefer.

There is nothing premature about it. I'm 6 years in and it's been nothing less then easy, cheap to own and drive and just a joy. My only regret is not doing it sooner. Unfortunately there were a lot of people in my sphere of influence who insisted that it was premature. But I get it.. humans, especially older ones, get stuck in their ways and beliefs even in the face of glaring evidence to the contrary.

P.S. Tesla is the LED of the auto world. Hybrids are the compact fluorescents.

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

Since you are dragging this out, I checked. The nearest station is roughly half an hour away, and I'm being charitable when I say half an hour. The nearest gas station is under 5 minutes away. Another two minutes, and I'm at three other gas stations. And they all sell diesel.

I do not have 240 in my garage, so I can do about 15 amps at 125V if I unplug everything (not possible) and my government-mandated GFCI sockets don't blow, which they like to do.

Look, I'm in favor of EV's. But they will not work for people like me right now, and there are a whole lot of people like me. Not everyone lives in Manhattan or Chicago. Not everyone can be an early adopter.

 

[Airborneguy]

See? That’s all you had to say. “They don’t work” is a lot different from “they don’t work for people like me.”

 

[Bilsch]

Since you are dragging this out, I checked. The nearest station is roughly half an hour away, and I'm being charitable when I say half an hour. The nearest gas station is under 5 minutes away. Another two minutes, and I'm at three other gas stations. And they all sell diesel.

I do not have 240 in my garage, so I can do about 15 amps at 125V if I unplug everything (not possible) and my government-mandated GFCI sockets don't blow, which they like to do.

Look, I'm in favor of EV's. But they will not work for people like me right now, and there are a whole lot of people like me. Not everyone lives in Manhattan or Chicago. Not everyone can be an early adopter.

I bet I can find 5 more places to charge that are closer.

Sorry to hear about your power situation but the difference in the cost of gas vs electricity for just one year would pay for a lot of electricians and wire. I added the 240 plug in my garage myself and it cost about $200 in materials. I save more then that on fuel in 1 month. Sure there are some people who don't have a good way to solve the charging problem but it is not most people.

I guess the thing that irks me the most is your complete certainty about electric vehicles when you do not even own one. There are people here, like me, who have owned both gas and electric who all know without a doubt the claims you make are just plain wrong. This anti EV stuff is a lot like flat earther nonsense in that even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary some folks still believe it.

 

[Kent88]

I don't think we're having a conversation with someone in good faith here.

Retorts that there's a big difference between an EV fire and a gas fire, even after being presented with information on how infrequently EV fires happen. Claims an EV might make sense if he lived in town, then states that he has gas stations (plural) within 7 minutes. Can't put in a 240v charging outlet because... reasons? Repeatedly states that EVs don't work, when clearly we have experienced that they do. Claims that he is pro-EV, but consistently puts them down by implying they aren't real vehicles, calling them awful, and stating that he'd have to wear a disguise if he drove around in one.

 

[doug293cz]

Ok everyone, time for a reminder: Stick to the topic, and avoid veering into politics (including taxes), and avoid denigrating other members because of their opinions. Let's keep things civil and on topic here.

doug293cz
HBT Moderator

 

[Rodent]

been seeing a lot of new EVs here in my agricultural small town of less than 2500 people at peak migrant worker season. these are a mix of Rivian, Teslas, and other more economical models. what I'm seeing here is that people are going EV for their daily errand running, while keeping the big diesel truck for true farm type work that includes towing stock trailers or flatbeds full of hay bales.

edge of the nearest 'big' city is '20-30 minutes of 5-10 over the 70mph speed limit' away. only time there's congestion is when one of the 'self-appointed speed limit monitors' are driving 5mph under in the left lane and paralleling a semi truck who's doing 5mph over the truck speed limit (70mph for all vehicles except 60moh for trucks - so they're driving the same speed, right past the huge 'Keep right except to pass' signs)

we have one public charging station in town, but it's a lower output type so it's always open and unused 99.995% of the time. makes sense that people are charging at home. doesn't make sense that the city opted for the low output charging station when the cost difference for the overall project would have been negligible

if EVs are working for a rural agricultural community like ours, then there's good chance they'll work (with current battery technology) in suburbia and even more densely populated rural areas like the majority of the US population lives in.

if I were to take a trip to visit the outlaws, it's just under 225 miles each direction. given we usually stay overnight at a hotel vs sleeping on their living room couches, even that outlier of a trip fit within range of most recent EV offerings. when we do a same day r/t we're typically visiting for 6-8 hours, so I could get a charge from their 120v outlet and leave them a $20 to more than cover electricity usage at peak hour consumption.

 

[Bilsch]

..when we do a same day r/t we're typically visiting for 6-8 hours, so I could get a charge from their 120v outlet and leave them a $20 to more than cover electricity usage at peak hour consumption.

You are a nice guy to give ‘em $12 extra.

 

[Kent88]

GM is pushing back the EV Silverado by a year.

 

[Kent88]

 

[sibelman]

how many visits

... not to mention the obvious: how many visits to the gas station EVs avoid

Maybe it's because I live in Western Oregon, but no one has objected to my driving electric. One guy spoke of the environmental impact of lithium battery production and worries about disposal, and falsely claimed ICE is more efficient.

Sounds like some of y'all have taken a fair amount of abuse for your car choices, which stinks but, sadly, does not surprise me.

As EVs become more common, this nonsense should settle down, notwithstanding the ridiculous politicization @Airborneguy referenced.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

This would be the sort of EV truck I'd be interested in... Hope they make it.

https://insideevs.com/news/693111/toyota-epu-concept-close-look/

 

[tracer bullet]

And this is the kind of EV I'm interested in! I hope they make it.

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/el...-gorgeous-twin-rotor-electric-mazda-iconic-sp
I will admit to being slightly unsure of exactly what it is. A hybrid, I guess. I'm fine with that.

 

[doug293cz]

And this is the kind of EV I'm interested in! I hope they make it.

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/el...-gorgeous-twin-rotor-electric-mazda-iconic-sp
I will admit to being slightly unsure of exactly what it is. A hybrid, I guess. I'm fine with that.

According to the description, it is a hybrid, although I didn't see that word on a quick skim.

Brew on

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

I will admit to being slightly unsure of exactly what it is. A hybrid, I guess. I'm fine with that.

Interesting. Not a traditional PHEV. More like a BEV with an onboard generator in case you need to recharge after you've exceeded battery range.

IMHO a pure BEV might have been a better choice. But I guess if there isn't a rotary engine, is it really an RX?

 

[Airborneguy]

I want to EV swap an older Miata. Small battery, just enough to tool around on nice days.

 

[day_trippr]

Mazda's design center has been stuck on melted bean of late, which is a shame.
That car could use some edgy artistic assistance from the likes of Lotus, for instance...

Cheers!

 

[sibelman]

edgy

Maybe this would do?

(would've included pic but HBT doesn't want to upload .webp files)