Muddy, As someone who was at and working at the MBA Fest, Congrats. Glad you finally got that Mud out of your kegs. Loved the Pumkin as well as your stout. Look forward in visiting your establishment. For the rest of you, This beer was voted the best from over 150 entries, was some tough competition. Good Job.
Muddy Creek Brewery: Hot Break!
- Thread starter MuddyCreek
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brewshki
Well-Known Member
Congrats!
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MuddyCreek
Well-Known Member
Thank you SeeMont. I asked Chris about that keg and he said he had to pour quite a bit out to get it cleared up. We don't filter aside from cold crashing and pulling the yeast cake off the bottom of the ferms as well as the brites before we keg. Unfortunately, both the first and last keg tend to have a bit of extra mud in them.
Clearly I need to pay some extra attention to this. I was really hoping we could compete the stout a bit more aggressively. (A really wonderful beer Ivan the Terrible won the Stout/Porter competition, but I was hoping our Muddy Creek Stout might have a shot.) I'm wondering if clarity isn't part of our issue there. We'll work more diligently on this going forward.
Clearly I need to pay some extra attention to this. I was really hoping we could compete the stout a bit more aggressively. (A really wonderful beer Ivan the Terrible won the Stout/Porter competition, but I was hoping our Muddy Creek Stout might have a shot.) I'm wondering if clarity isn't part of our issue there. We'll work more diligently on this going forward.
You stout was great, I know your stout was in the running but that is a tough area at least this year. I came back to thirds on your brews. For a brewery that has only be open for a few months, you have done great, There was a lot of competition and a lot of great brews.
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MuddyCreek
Well-Known Member
I really appreciate that. We've worked very hard. Thank you.
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MuddyCreek
Well-Known Member
Well, tonight the award winning pumpkin ale goes on tap at the brewery. We're also going to start sending out kegs officially for distribution regionally starting next week.
We'll start slowly, but over the next months we hope to be distributing a pretty impressive chunk of product over the state. We may even try to save up for a canning run or two.
In local news, we have a newspaper article coming out Sunday talking about the festival and I'll be putting out a couple pale ales for Halloween. One is our standard pale ale, and the other, I believe we'll be putting on Nitro as a nod to our well-respected friends at Kettlehouse who occasionally put their pale Eddy Out on nitro.
We have a 3rd beer, the single malt that should be coming out pretty soon after aging as well. Big Johnson Single Malt will be making it's world debut sometime in the next few weeks after we feel it's aged enough.
We're planning a pretty exciting Halloween party! Costumes, Music, Prizes and Ghost Stories featuring the historic buildings in the area (including our own.) It ought to be a good time.
We'll start slowly, but over the next months we hope to be distributing a pretty impressive chunk of product over the state. We may even try to save up for a canning run or two.
In local news, we have a newspaper article coming out Sunday talking about the festival and I'll be putting out a couple pale ales for Halloween. One is our standard pale ale, and the other, I believe we'll be putting on Nitro as a nod to our well-respected friends at Kettlehouse who occasionally put their pale Eddy Out on nitro.
We have a 3rd beer, the single malt that should be coming out pretty soon after aging as well. Big Johnson Single Malt will be making it's world debut sometime in the next few weeks after we feel it's aged enough.
We're planning a pretty exciting Halloween party! Costumes, Music, Prizes and Ghost Stories featuring the historic buildings in the area (including our own.) It ought to be a good time.
rlmiller10
Well-Known Member
Does that Big Johnson refer to a line of t-shirts that was out about 25 years ago? http://www.bigjohnson.com/ actually I guess they are still around.
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MuddyCreek
Well-Known Member
No, it doesn't refer to them specifically, although I remember those shirts well. I was in middle and high school when they were strictly forbidden. The folks who donated the fresh hops are surnamed "Johnson" and so we went with "Big Johnson".
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MuddyCreek
Well-Known Member
It's kegged and aging as I type. I will draw some this afternoon and let you know. Last I tasted it, Big Johnson was very mild. (As you'd expect with the fresh hops. Kat, my other brewer made it as a bitter.) I think we may put it on the Randall to zip it up a bit when we serve it, although it is very smooth now.
I will see if I can identify the hops family after a tasting or two. If I can't I'll ask a few other people to taste it and lend their palates. I have no doubt we can narrow down the hops. In terms of bitterness, I would expect we're looking at something in the 15 to 20 IBU range. It's really very mild.
I will see if I can identify the hops family after a tasting or two. If I can't I'll ask a few other people to taste it and lend their palates. I have no doubt we can narrow down the hops. In terms of bitterness, I would expect we're looking at something in the 15 to 20 IBU range. It's really very mild.
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MuddyCreek
Well-Known Member
Big Weekend!
We headed off to the Ales for Trails benefit in Anaconda MT this weekend. We also provided beer for our local Roller Derby team's home bout as well as their after-party and I brewed another batch of the Jack Smashed Pumpkin ale on Sunday.
Overall, quite a busy, very nearly overwhelming weekend.
We had a great time in Anaconda. The Ales for Trails benefit was a blast. They had a ton of people and we ended up serving nearly a barrel of beer. (three different products, our stout, our amber and an I.P.A.) We love helping different community oriented groups and this one is really great as they actually purchase 1/2 of the products. So that's awesome.
We've been really happy to sponsor the local Roller Derby team and this weekend they won their home bout. So that was GREAT! They ladies have worked their tails off and really improved and it's been amazing watching them get better and better. Last week we did a fund-raiser for them in the taproom and gave 1/4 of all the pint sales to their club as well as an additional $100 if there were more than 100 pints sold. Well, they made it. So we happily wrote the check and gave them the fundraising donation.
The team is called the Copper City Queens (Butte MT's nickname is "The Copper City") and we'll be putting a special row of mugs in our "Fishin' Hole" mug membership for the Queens. Later on, when I can get to this thread from another machine I'll add some photos of the queens from their fundraising party. They're quite a lovely group of ladies.
We headed off to the Ales for Trails benefit in Anaconda MT this weekend. We also provided beer for our local Roller Derby team's home bout as well as their after-party and I brewed another batch of the Jack Smashed Pumpkin ale on Sunday.
Overall, quite a busy, very nearly overwhelming weekend.
We had a great time in Anaconda. The Ales for Trails benefit was a blast. They had a ton of people and we ended up serving nearly a barrel of beer. (three different products, our stout, our amber and an I.P.A.) We love helping different community oriented groups and this one is really great as they actually purchase 1/2 of the products. So that's awesome.
We've been really happy to sponsor the local Roller Derby team and this weekend they won their home bout. So that was GREAT! They ladies have worked their tails off and really improved and it's been amazing watching them get better and better. Last week we did a fund-raiser for them in the taproom and gave 1/4 of all the pint sales to their club as well as an additional $100 if there were more than 100 pints sold. Well, they made it. So we happily wrote the check and gave them the fundraising donation.
The team is called the Copper City Queens (Butte MT's nickname is "The Copper City") and we'll be putting a special row of mugs in our "Fishin' Hole" mug membership for the Queens. Later on, when I can get to this thread from another machine I'll add some photos of the queens from their fundraising party. They're quite a lovely group of ladies.
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MuddyCreek
Well-Known Member
Another weekend has come and gone. So I can't quite figure out to track the migratory patterns of craft beer drinkers. If somebody ever gets around to tranq'ing, tagging and monitoring one of these critters for a few years I'd sure like to see the data.
last week we were really slow. Course there were other events going on so that's not all that surprising. I was being a bit facetious about the whole tracking thing. This weekend was much much better. In fact it was downright great.
It's starting to feel as though the weather is beginning to pull people back indoors and hunting season is winding down a bit. Montana's long cold season is about to begin in earnest and that's probably a good thing for us. (Hey, it's a business.)
And the last bit of good news, we brewed a true hefeweizen last week. So far the fermentation (just a day or so in now) is going very strong so I'm excited to see how she comes out. In other news, our second batch of the Jack Smashed Pumpkin ale turned out perfectly. That will come out just in time to replenish our dwindling supply.
In other news, we picked up three new handles locally this weekend. We're very pleased about that.
last week we were really slow. Course there were other events going on so that's not all that surprising. I was being a bit facetious about the whole tracking thing. This weekend was much much better. In fact it was downright great.
It's starting to feel as though the weather is beginning to pull people back indoors and hunting season is winding down a bit. Montana's long cold season is about to begin in earnest and that's probably a good thing for us. (Hey, it's a business.)
And the last bit of good news, we brewed a true hefeweizen last week. So far the fermentation (just a day or so in now) is going very strong so I'm excited to see how she comes out. In other news, our second batch of the Jack Smashed Pumpkin ale turned out perfectly. That will come out just in time to replenish our dwindling supply.
In other news, we picked up three new handles locally this weekend. We're very pleased about that.
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MuddyCreek
Well-Known Member
Hey, we're starting to get out into the world! We've begun distributing around the state a bit. Exciting stuff. You can now find Muddy Creek beer in neighboring Missoula, Helena and Bozeman. Soon we'll expand into Great Falls and Billings as well.
I'll get a list of the places were in from our distributor and post them. I know there aren't too many Montana, Idaho folks, but for those of you who are on here - You can enjoy Muddy Creek if you like.
I'll get a list of the places were in from our distributor and post them. I know there aren't too many Montana, Idaho folks, but for those of you who are on here - You can enjoy Muddy Creek if you like.
Subdivisions
Well-Known Member
I just noticed you're on Galena St. Ever thought of doing an all Galena beer??
Congrats on the success so far!!
Just wanted to thank Muddy publicly.
I recently suffered a disaster in my life and he's been nothing but forth coming with well wishes and offers of support. Even though we are states away its nice to have people so close.
I hope to get back on my feet here soon and couldn't do it without people like Muddy in my life.
I recently suffered a disaster in my life and he's been nothing but forth coming with well wishes and offers of support. Even though we are states away its nice to have people so close.
I hope to get back on my feet here soon and couldn't do it without people like Muddy in my life.
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MuddyCreek
Well-Known Member
That's nice but I'm worried about you right now.
Punity and I have spent quite a bit of PM minutes talking about the various issues that small brewery guys like us have to work with on a day to day basis. We have fairly different situations but there is some common ground there that allows us to bounce ideas off one another in a really friendly and collaborative environment.
We've talked about everything from recipe ideas to scaling to distribution. We've even talked about the challenges of visiting with an appeasing extraordinary brewers like you fine folks. The number one rule there, never stop listening - as you all have so much passion for brewing you clearly put a great deal of thought and care into what you're doing. Therefore it only makes good sense to pay attention and listen.
Anyway, Punity has had something pretty terrible happen professionally. I'll let him fill you in on the details if he wishes. Act of God kind of thing. It pretty much sucks but at the same time it perhaps leaves an opportunity.
I just think you need to look at this is a chance to do things the way you want to do them from the start and use your experience and skills to capitalize. I know it's hard.
Keep your chin up and keep kicking.
Punity and I have spent quite a bit of PM minutes talking about the various issues that small brewery guys like us have to work with on a day to day basis. We have fairly different situations but there is some common ground there that allows us to bounce ideas off one another in a really friendly and collaborative environment.
We've talked about everything from recipe ideas to scaling to distribution. We've even talked about the challenges of visiting with an appeasing extraordinary brewers like you fine folks. The number one rule there, never stop listening - as you all have so much passion for brewing you clearly put a great deal of thought and care into what you're doing. Therefore it only makes good sense to pay attention and listen.
Anyway, Punity has had something pretty terrible happen professionally. I'll let him fill you in on the details if he wishes. Act of God kind of thing. It pretty much sucks but at the same time it perhaps leaves an opportunity.
I just think you need to look at this is a chance to do things the way you want to do them from the start and use your experience and skills to capitalize. I know it's hard.
Keep your chin up and keep kicking.
treacheroustexan
Well-Known Member
Best wishes Punity. I saw that earlier today on social media.
Yea basically if anyone doesn't know here my brewery burnt down. Well "my" brewery, pretty much the one I was running but didn't own.
Now I'm at a crossroads of where to go with this. I have every option in front of me at the moment and it's just gonna take me some time to figure out what is best for me.
The dream is awlasy to own my own place and I think the universe is telling me it's time to explore those options but at the same time I feel like I just can't leave the previous owner in the dust.
However with people like Muddy and y'all here it does help to have others to lend an ear.
Now I'm at a crossroads of where to go with this. I have every option in front of me at the moment and it's just gonna take me some time to figure out what is best for me.
The dream is awlasy to own my own place and I think the universe is telling me it's time to explore those options but at the same time I feel like I just can't leave the previous owner in the dust.
However with people like Muddy and y'all here it does help to have others to lend an ear.
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MuddyCreek
Well-Known Member
So co-own. 50-50 takes some financial pressure off you but gives you control over the brewing side.
;- )
Sorry, shouldn't be throwing extra stuff at you right now. I know you have alot to deal with. On another note... what if you just tell folks the beer is pasteurized!
;- )
Sorry, shouldn't be throwing extra stuff at you right now. I know you have alot to deal with. On another note... what if you just tell folks the beer is pasteurized!
Ha yea if that was possible. Hes already let it be known there isn't a possibility of me getting ownership stake but that was something I knew when I started there.
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MuddyCreek
Well-Known Member
Well there ya go then.
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MuddyCreek
Well-Known Member
And this is the part I hate.
We had a brewer leave. Kat - our first employee moved to Seattle. We're a little sad, but the world continues to spin. So we had to hire a new brewing assistant. I'll have to go through the process of teaching somebody the ins and outs of the brewery. We had 7 candidates in total, I interviewed 6. 3 were really pretty good, 2 were excellent.
I had some choices. I could go with a couple people part time, 1 person part time, 1 person full time, etc. My 2 excellent choices have brewing experience. (Home brewers.) They both have made some beer. One guy has brought some in, it was pretty good. They both submitted recipes. They both interviewed well.
1 works at a local restaurant two or three nights a week, the other goes to school and has a family. What I really want to do is hire a part time guy and work him/her into a full time position, training that person to eventually handle brews, transfers, racking, kegging, etc. That will take some time, but you know - that's the hope.
Anyway, long story short - I had to go with one of the candidate and let the other one know I didn't choose to go that route right now. Basically, he has school and my concern in a nutshell is, as a pretty promising young brewer I know he's going to do well and I'm going to WANT to push him to go full time, but he can't. He's a student and has a family etc. That means I've got a part time guy that can't really evolve beyond that. Which would be fine if that was all he/she was ever going to be - but this guy has some real promise. Know what I mean? So I would be really tempted and frustrated at the same time because I'd have to hire ANOTHER part time person also with brewing experience to make up the other half of the shift and then I'd eventually be wanting to give THAT person more hours.
But it sucks because, you know, I'm human. I hate to tell somebody "I'm not hiring you because ultimately I'm trying to do you a favor." It doesn't seem like that when you get the notification that you didn't get the job. On the other hand, When you don't have a boss that's asking you to stay a bit later when you have a test coming up in two days or wanting you to skip a trip to your in-laws (Well that MAY be a bonus...) or whatever else you may find that it wasn't such a bad thing not getting the job.
Still, it kinda sucks. I really like the guy. We have a great candidate for the job. Every bit as good as the one we couldn't hire. I was thrilled to get two guys with such solid backgrounds. I just wish I could take them both.
Well there you have it. You want the dirt - there's some grimy dirt. When Non-HR guys have to do the HR stuff.
We had a brewer leave. Kat - our first employee moved to Seattle. We're a little sad, but the world continues to spin. So we had to hire a new brewing assistant. I'll have to go through the process of teaching somebody the ins and outs of the brewery. We had 7 candidates in total, I interviewed 6. 3 were really pretty good, 2 were excellent.
I had some choices. I could go with a couple people part time, 1 person part time, 1 person full time, etc. My 2 excellent choices have brewing experience. (Home brewers.) They both have made some beer. One guy has brought some in, it was pretty good. They both submitted recipes. They both interviewed well.
1 works at a local restaurant two or three nights a week, the other goes to school and has a family. What I really want to do is hire a part time guy and work him/her into a full time position, training that person to eventually handle brews, transfers, racking, kegging, etc. That will take some time, but you know - that's the hope.
Anyway, long story short - I had to go with one of the candidate and let the other one know I didn't choose to go that route right now. Basically, he has school and my concern in a nutshell is, as a pretty promising young brewer I know he's going to do well and I'm going to WANT to push him to go full time, but he can't. He's a student and has a family etc. That means I've got a part time guy that can't really evolve beyond that. Which would be fine if that was all he/she was ever going to be - but this guy has some real promise. Know what I mean? So I would be really tempted and frustrated at the same time because I'd have to hire ANOTHER part time person also with brewing experience to make up the other half of the shift and then I'd eventually be wanting to give THAT person more hours.
But it sucks because, you know, I'm human. I hate to tell somebody "I'm not hiring you because ultimately I'm trying to do you a favor." It doesn't seem like that when you get the notification that you didn't get the job. On the other hand, When you don't have a boss that's asking you to stay a bit later when you have a test coming up in two days or wanting you to skip a trip to your in-laws (Well that MAY be a bonus...) or whatever else you may find that it wasn't such a bad thing not getting the job.
Still, it kinda sucks. I really like the guy. We have a great candidate for the job. Every bit as good as the one we couldn't hire. I was thrilled to get two guys with such solid backgrounds. I just wish I could take them both.
Well there you have it. You want the dirt - there's some grimy dirt. When Non-HR guys have to do the HR stuff.
WilliamSlayer
Well-Known Member
That.... was an awesome problem to have. 
brewshki
Well-Known Member
So going well?
WilliamSlayer
Well-Known Member
Bet the holidays kicked their butt. Craft beer is IN right now. Hope lots of folks were enjoying a 'winter warmer ' courtesy of Muddy Creek!
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MuddyCreek
Well-Known Member
Sorry guys. Been busy. We did have a bit of a rush over the holidays. We also sent off to a competition in Oregon. Unfortunately we did not medal, however we enjoyed the opportunity to compete again.
We are once more expanding the brewhaus. We're buying some new equipment and I plan to be putting some stuff on the market soon. I don't know if anyone is looking for 10 bbl system, but if you are - let me know.
We're buying a slightly smaller but more agile system that will solve some of our power problems. We've been distributing around the state and we've also been putting somewhere in the zone of 9 distinct products in the taproom aside from our soft drinks. That means we've been busting ass to keep everything stocked up. Our 10 bbl system has been a trooper for us, but we really need something that can kick out batches a bit more quickly and it would be nice to have the flexibility to push out a 4 bbl batch now and then without having to do nearly as much work as an entire full batch.
So, we bit the bullet and picked something else up. We're excited about it although it will take a bit of getting used to the new system. I'm confident we'll be in good shape sooner than later though.
We spent our first year getting established and building a clientele. This is our year to really assert ourselves in the market place, expand our distribution both locally and regionally and focus on competing. We'd like to get some hardware if we can. As I said we attempted to medal in Oregon this month and fell short. There were many fine beers in the competition and we congratulate all the breweries who did medal and we hope to see you guys again next year.
For now we're focusing on improving our core product line across the board, introducing one or two new things and moving bit by bit into the higher end craft brewing spectrum. We started out intentionally brewing "everyman's" craft beer. We wanted to help people in our community begin the process of shifting away from MCB toward craft beers. Now that the process has begun and our clientele has a core of beers that they love, we are going to begin challenging them with more aggressive examples of craft beers and more progressive styles.
It's going to be a good year!
We are once more expanding the brewhaus. We're buying some new equipment and I plan to be putting some stuff on the market soon. I don't know if anyone is looking for 10 bbl system, but if you are - let me know.
We're buying a slightly smaller but more agile system that will solve some of our power problems. We've been distributing around the state and we've also been putting somewhere in the zone of 9 distinct products in the taproom aside from our soft drinks. That means we've been busting ass to keep everything stocked up. Our 10 bbl system has been a trooper for us, but we really need something that can kick out batches a bit more quickly and it would be nice to have the flexibility to push out a 4 bbl batch now and then without having to do nearly as much work as an entire full batch.
So, we bit the bullet and picked something else up. We're excited about it although it will take a bit of getting used to the new system. I'm confident we'll be in good shape sooner than later though.
We spent our first year getting established and building a clientele. This is our year to really assert ourselves in the market place, expand our distribution both locally and regionally and focus on competing. We'd like to get some hardware if we can. As I said we attempted to medal in Oregon this month and fell short. There were many fine beers in the competition and we congratulate all the breweries who did medal and we hope to see you guys again next year.
For now we're focusing on improving our core product line across the board, introducing one or two new things and moving bit by bit into the higher end craft brewing spectrum. We started out intentionally brewing "everyman's" craft beer. We wanted to help people in our community begin the process of shifting away from MCB toward craft beers. Now that the process has begun and our clientele has a core of beers that they love, we are going to begin challenging them with more aggressive examples of craft beers and more progressive styles.
It's going to be a good year!
brewshki
Well-Known Member
Wow, that is interesting. It is the first time I think I have heard of a successful brewery changing over to a smaller rig. I can certainly understand the desire for agile over brute bulk, but still...So for your more popular flagships then I assume you will either be brewing 2x as often or just doubling up on brew day?
I wish you, your partners and staff continued success and the best of luck!
beergolf
Well-Known Member
Always love hearing your updates. I have been following your progress from the begining.
Good luck with the new system and continue to keep us posted.
Good luck with the new system and continue to keep us posted.
I know the rig they are going to and what they are coming from and it's going to be night and day to brew slightly less. Not the end of the world and knowing how hard these guys work this is a much needed rellief
To be clear, I absolutely meant no snark nor sarcasm but pure admiration.
I have been following these guys and others like them for a while with the same pipe dream myself. I have nothing but respect. The thing is that visiting other forums like pro-brewer and other places, you are pounded that you must open on equipment as large as possible and anything less than 10bbl even in a small market is the first step to failure. So that makes it very curious to me to see someone that actually _did_ open on a 10bbl+ system and operate on it for many months, decide that even as they are expanding and improving their core product, reducing the system size to less than half their size is beneficial to their business, production schedule and throughput.
So it makes me hopeful and confirms the anti-big crowd that it is possible to produce both the volume and quality of product that you need to on a smaller system and demands perhaps slightly less capital on startup to do the build out.
grizzly2378
Well-Known Member
Obviously Muddy can (and should) correct me if I'm wrong, but the way I read it is that they aren't going to a system less than half their current size, but to a smaller, more efficient system (7 bbl?) that will allow them to more efficiently brew smaller batches of beer. He mentioned that it currently takes almost as much work to brew a 4 bbl batch as a full batch and that their new "slightly smaller" system would make those smaller batches a bit quicker. Presumably, this new system would also brew "full" batches more quickly, so even though a "full" batch is smaller than before, they could brew more often and make up for the difference. That's how I read it, anyway.
To be clear, I absolutely meant no snark nor sarcasm but pure admiration.
I have been following these guys and others like them for a while with the same pipe dream myself. I have nothing but respect. The thing is that visiting other forums like pro-brewer and other places, you are pounded that you must open on equipment as large as possible and anything less than 10bbl even in a small market is the first step to failure. So that makes it very curious to me to see someone that actually _did_ open on a 10bbl+ system and operate on it for many months, decide that even as they are expanding and improving their core product, reducing the system size to less than half their size is beneficial to their business, production schedule and throughput.
So it makes me hopeful and confirms the anti-big crowd that it is possible to produce both the volume and quality of product that you need to on a smaller system and demands perhaps slightly less capital on startup to do the build out.
Everyone has an opinion on what is best and what you SHOULD do to succeed.
Their system they are going to allows them to brew just as much beer in as much if not less time then on their old system.
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MuddyCreek
Well-Known Member
Hey folks. How's it going.
I should clarify. We have some pretty unique things going on at Muddy Creek and the new system will benefit us in quite a few ways. It IS smaller. There's no getting around it. However with that system we will be able to brew quite a bit more beer and we'll be able to do it more consistently.
So, allow me to be very clear what we're doing and why. I did after all promise complete transparency. This is on the surface a pretty odd move.
I've never mislead anyone that our system is grossly under-powered. Due to several circumstances we never quite got the control panel and elements we wanted and now almost a year in we STILL require a full 12 to 16 hours to brew 10 bbls of beer. This is really untenable. You have to remember that the owners all have full time jobs so we can only brew a couple times a week. We have to do a batch on the weekend and we try to do a batch on Thursday. Well, that means our other brewer has to put in a ridiculously long day brewing a batch and I have to put in a stupid long Saturday.
Furthermore, we have to run our gas much longer and hotter than we'd like to get our tanks up to heat. AFTER we finally finish brewing we have to transfer through the chiller, pitch the yeast and get everything cleaned up. It's a very long day. Even 1/2 batches take anywhere from 8 to 10 hours.
So... the short version is, we could have paid around 10k for a control panel to get us up to a better heat situation. That was a fine option. We have learned the system. We're making good beer. We can certainly afford to do that. However for just a bit more than that, we could afford a separate system that allows us to do 4 or 8 bbl batches in 4 or 8 hours. Furthermore, the new system allows us to do a single beer or 2 separate beers at one time.
The footprint for the new system is tremendously small. We can purchase ANOTHER one of these in another year if we like, effectively moving us to a 16 bbl brewery with virtually no change in our processes. The system is a bit easier to use. Because of the reduced footprint we can do some "hard-plumbing" to our chiller and save time on the back end after we finish brewing.
With this system I can have my assistant brewer literally do smaller batches every day of the week depending on my fermentor pipeline. Of course, as many of you know - a brewery's production capacity is really limited by their ability to move beer through their fermentation process. With a 10 bbl system we were pretty much filling up our fermentors all the way and then sitting around and waiting for the fermenting room to clear and then the cold-crash room and then the brite-tanks. Then it was Wash-Rinse-Repeat. With the smaller capacity, we can run small batches through a single fermenter and have lots of product going through consecutively. Ultimately we can purchase more serving tanks and simply keep them stocked with product as we cycle through.
Lastly, the new system is a great deal more efficient than our current system. (Ignore that if you're looking for a 10 bbl system, btw.) We get around 70% efficiency currently and I have called several people using the new system and they regularly get 85% and better. That will significantly cut down on our costs. We expect to make back a significant portion of the investment within a couple years in malt costs alone.
So, yes we are in fact going to a smaller system. However I'm not suggesting it's a lifelong commitment. For now it's a good move for us. Some years from now, we may decide to go a different route altogether. We have about 4 years left on our lease. At that point I expect many things will be different.
As always, I will keep you faithfully updated to the best of my ability. Currently we've started serving food in the brewery. At least on weekends. We've been bringing in sandwiches and offerings from local restaurants and during the week we are offering taco's that we're doing ourselves. We've discussed a more ambitious kitchen project and we have a 3rd party who's interested in putting in an entire diner/cafeteria himself.
So, there you have it. All the news that's fit to print.
I should clarify. We have some pretty unique things going on at Muddy Creek and the new system will benefit us in quite a few ways. It IS smaller. There's no getting around it. However with that system we will be able to brew quite a bit more beer and we'll be able to do it more consistently.
So, allow me to be very clear what we're doing and why. I did after all promise complete transparency. This is on the surface a pretty odd move.
I've never mislead anyone that our system is grossly under-powered. Due to several circumstances we never quite got the control panel and elements we wanted and now almost a year in we STILL require a full 12 to 16 hours to brew 10 bbls of beer. This is really untenable. You have to remember that the owners all have full time jobs so we can only brew a couple times a week. We have to do a batch on the weekend and we try to do a batch on Thursday. Well, that means our other brewer has to put in a ridiculously long day brewing a batch and I have to put in a stupid long Saturday.
Furthermore, we have to run our gas much longer and hotter than we'd like to get our tanks up to heat. AFTER we finally finish brewing we have to transfer through the chiller, pitch the yeast and get everything cleaned up. It's a very long day. Even 1/2 batches take anywhere from 8 to 10 hours.
So... the short version is, we could have paid around 10k for a control panel to get us up to a better heat situation. That was a fine option. We have learned the system. We're making good beer. We can certainly afford to do that. However for just a bit more than that, we could afford a separate system that allows us to do 4 or 8 bbl batches in 4 or 8 hours. Furthermore, the new system allows us to do a single beer or 2 separate beers at one time.
The footprint for the new system is tremendously small. We can purchase ANOTHER one of these in another year if we like, effectively moving us to a 16 bbl brewery with virtually no change in our processes. The system is a bit easier to use. Because of the reduced footprint we can do some "hard-plumbing" to our chiller and save time on the back end after we finish brewing.
With this system I can have my assistant brewer literally do smaller batches every day of the week depending on my fermentor pipeline. Of course, as many of you know - a brewery's production capacity is really limited by their ability to move beer through their fermentation process. With a 10 bbl system we were pretty much filling up our fermentors all the way and then sitting around and waiting for the fermenting room to clear and then the cold-crash room and then the brite-tanks. Then it was Wash-Rinse-Repeat. With the smaller capacity, we can run small batches through a single fermenter and have lots of product going through consecutively. Ultimately we can purchase more serving tanks and simply keep them stocked with product as we cycle through.
Lastly, the new system is a great deal more efficient than our current system. (Ignore that if you're looking for a 10 bbl system, btw.) We get around 70% efficiency currently and I have called several people using the new system and they regularly get 85% and better. That will significantly cut down on our costs. We expect to make back a significant portion of the investment within a couple years in malt costs alone.
So, yes we are in fact going to a smaller system. However I'm not suggesting it's a lifelong commitment. For now it's a good move for us. Some years from now, we may decide to go a different route altogether. We have about 4 years left on our lease. At that point I expect many things will be different.
As always, I will keep you faithfully updated to the best of my ability. Currently we've started serving food in the brewery. At least on weekends. We've been bringing in sandwiches and offerings from local restaurants and during the week we are offering taco's that we're doing ourselves. We've discussed a more ambitious kitchen project and we have a 3rd party who's interested in putting in an entire diner/cafeteria himself.
So, there you have it. All the news that's fit to print.
OP
OP
MuddyCreek
Well-Known Member
To summarize:
We brew somewhere in the zone of 13.5 bbls a week with our current system. In terms of labor, that requires about 4 hours prep time, 3 hours post-cleaning, and a minimum of 28 man hours for brewing. (Ya...)
So we're looking at somewhere in the zone of 35 man hours just for the brewing and cleanup of 13.5 bbls of product. That doesn't include transfers, brewhaus cleanup, inventory, yeast propagation, or the 17 thousand other jobs that have to be done before lunch time.
On the new system, that much beer could be done in 2 8 hour days. (True 8 hour days.) That would include the cleaning. Now we'd still have to do the prep work. There's not getting away from the milling etc. However the the 35 hours we spend on those 13.5 bbls of beer drop down to 16 hours.
I can immediately get up to 25 bbls of beer for almost the same labor output in terms of brewing labor. Yes my milling and setup goes up, but brew-days become SO much more manageable.
THIS is why we made our decision. We got smaller to go bigger. I know it's weird. And I'll be the first to admit if it makes more work for us. At 13.5 bbls a week though, I expect we'll be alright.
We brew somewhere in the zone of 13.5 bbls a week with our current system. In terms of labor, that requires about 4 hours prep time, 3 hours post-cleaning, and a minimum of 28 man hours for brewing. (Ya...)
So we're looking at somewhere in the zone of 35 man hours just for the brewing and cleanup of 13.5 bbls of product. That doesn't include transfers, brewhaus cleanup, inventory, yeast propagation, or the 17 thousand other jobs that have to be done before lunch time.
On the new system, that much beer could be done in 2 8 hour days. (True 8 hour days.) That would include the cleaning. Now we'd still have to do the prep work. There's not getting away from the milling etc. However the the 35 hours we spend on those 13.5 bbls of beer drop down to 16 hours.
I can immediately get up to 25 bbls of beer for almost the same labor output in terms of brewing labor. Yes my milling and setup goes up, but brew-days become SO much more manageable.
THIS is why we made our decision. We got smaller to go bigger. I know it's weird. And I'll be the first to admit if it makes more work for us. At 13.5 bbls a week though, I expect we'll be alright.
iijakii
Well-Known Member
Yeah the timeframe on your old setup was ridiculous, new one looks good. Hopefully with that maneuverability you can move it into more rotation too to keep people swinging through the pub!
OP
OP
MuddyCreek
Well-Known Member
That is another reason we wanted to go with this system. My nutjob partner (said with love *smile) has 10 beers on tap. That makes us one of the most diverse taprooms in the state going away, but it puts SO much pressure on us downstairs to keep them stocked in beer.
The new system should make that a bit easier to manage. We hope so at least. It has been a huge advantage having so many beers on tap. It's simply impossible to not find SOMETHING you like.
The new system should make that a bit easier to manage. We hope so at least. It has been a huge advantage having so many beers on tap. It's simply impossible to not find SOMETHING you like.
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I just wanted to say, thanks for putting your threads together. I've managed to read both of them over the past couple of days, and wow, if I'm ever out that way, I'm stopping in. In fact I have just one more reason to go visit my cousin while he's in school in Bozeman.
I'm completely new to homebrewing. A couple friends have a couple years on me. We recently found that nano licenses in NH are crazy cheap, which of course led to some wonderful day dreaming. Your threads have been a great reality check. Not in a negative way, more in a "this is what you're up against, be ready" way. I have no way of knowing if we'll ever follow through, and if we do how far down the line it will be, but you've set the bar high. I'm looking forward to reading about more of your success.
I'm completely new to homebrewing. A couple friends have a couple years on me. We recently found that nano licenses in NH are crazy cheap, which of course led to some wonderful day dreaming. Your threads have been a great reality check. Not in a negative way, more in a "this is what you're up against, be ready" way. I have no way of knowing if we'll ever follow through, and if we do how far down the line it will be, but you've set the bar high. I'm looking forward to reading about more of your success.
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