It's a class 3 felony to homebrew in the town I live in...

[jmcquesten]

I'm confused with the whole damp town thing. I understood dry (no alcohol) and wet (normal place) but damp, wtf?
What is the actual definition of a damp town, as it seems like you are allowed to be in possestion of alcohol (maybe you need the permit). the control seems to be on the sale of liquor.
I would check through the actual state legislation and determine if they do infact specifically outlaw homebrewing. It may be a case of people thinking that if buying it is illegal/restricted then brewing it must be too.

The state allows it and most liquor stores actually sell brewing supplies. However, towns and villages have the ability to regulate it on a local level. They can be wet, dry, or damp. Wet is obvious. Dry means it's illegal to possess, buy, or sell any kind of alcohol. Damp means it's heavily regulated and you must have a permit to buy it. There are daily limits on how much you can buy. The one liquor store is run by the town and gets all the profit. The 3 "restaurant's" in town are not allowed to sell any alcohol at all. If a town or village has decided to go dry or damp, it's called a 'local option'. That's where the state law comes into play. The law states that it is illegal to manufacture alcohol in any town that has adopted the 'local option', and is considered a class 3 felony. The purchase permit will get revoked if you get any charges, and can't be renewed for 2 years. Also, if you've had any alcohol charges anywhere within the past two years, you're not eligible to get a permit. So really, it's not worth taking a chance.

 

[jmcquesten]

Ironic much?

Yes very. That did occur to me.

 

[jmcquesten]

The free market can change things.
Move out asap & make your statement to Alaska by no longer being subject to their bullshlt laws.
They will have that much less $$ coming from you.
When everybody moves and they no longer have tax-slaves just
MAYBE they will figure out that their ideas of tyranical legislature were just that.
May you find yourself in a more free state soon.

My money doesn't mean anything up here. The natives get more handouts than you would believe. On top of yearly checks that all Alaskan residents get, the natives get shareholder dividend checks. The state land is divided up and owned by native corporations. This was their alternative to reservations up here. As shareholders in the native corporations, they are basically allowed to use the land like they personally own it. Then, they get dividends from any money the corporation makes. How do the corporations make money? Well, they are basically setup as contractors and are given 'no-bid' preference by the federal government. This allows them the privilege to choose government contracts that any other contractors would have to bid on, and the government must give it to them. In many cases, they are not qualified to do the job that they have been given, so they sub it out or hire people like myself that are. Almost sounds like the mob right? That's what I thought, but our government set it up this way, many years ago. Oh, and they aren't afraid to tell you it's their land and they won't tolerate us people using it.

 

[Paps]

Oh, and they aren't afraid to tell you it's their land and they won't tolerate us people using it.

Well you cab't blame an Indian for saying that because the last time somebody asked them if it was their land or not they said something like `the land does not belong to us we belong to the land`............so then the british settlers replied by saying `if it's not YOUR land then we claim it as OUR land.now get off or we will kill you.`

Im not saying that your funds alone will bankrupt them but collectively a mass exodus of tax revenue will be noticed by the local govt.That alone isn't a garuntee that they will pull their heads out of their a$$es but at least they wont be forcing their laws on you anymore at the point of a gun.

 

[mattd2]

...That's where the state law comes into play. The law states that it is illegal to manufacture alcohol in any town that has adopted the 'local option', and is considered a class 3 felony. The purchase permit will get revoked if you get any charges, and can't be renewed for 2 years. Also, if you've had any alcohol charges anywhere within the past two years, you're not eligible to get a permit. So really, it's not worth taking a chance.

have you read through you state legislation or is this the advice you received from the police/lawyers. Not saying that they don't know but they might not have realised that there is normal (in all 50 states now) a clear distinction between manufacturing for sale and homebrewing. A "quick" look through the Alaska Statute, it does say that homebrewing is excempt from the the title unless the town choses the local option. But even then the the restrictions on manufacturing and the need for licencing looks to deal with only manufacturing for sale. And I would expect that homebrewing is not excepmt from the title under local option so that the restrictions of posession, etc. as selected by the town are still in affect to homebrew as they would be for any other alcohol.
Maybe... but I'm no lawyer... so you still may be SOL

 

[jmcquesten]

have you read through you state legislation or is this the advice you received from the police/lawyers. Not saying that they don't know but they might not have realised that there is normal (in all 50 states now) a clear distinction between manufacturing for sale and homebrewing. A "quick" look through the Alaska Statute, it does say that homebrewing is excempt from the the title unless the town choses the local option. But even then the the restrictions on manufacturing and the need for licencing looks to deal with only manufacturing for sale. And I would expect that homebrewing is not excepmt from the title under local option so that the restrictions of posession, etc. as selected by the town are still in affect to homebrew as they would be for any other alcohol.
Maybe... but I'm no lawyer... so you still may be SOL

I'm no lawyer either, but my girlfriend is, so is the judge she law clerks for. The law reads a little cloudy, but they certainly do prosecute people for homebrewing, which leads me to be believe that they are against it. The police matter because they would be the ones arresting me. They actually fly in a special prosecutor from Anchorage to try the cases. The problem is not with responsible homebrewers like myself, it's with the people who make the sugar/berry/bread yeast concoctions, drink a gallon of it, and get some sort of domestic violence charge. Maybe if they were just making beer as a hobby, drinking it responsibly, and not selling it, the community might be more open to it. But I doubt it, because they wouldn't be collecting the taxes and fees that they are now. Unless of course the town opened up a town run homebrew store. With these prices up here, yeast would cost $30, grain would be $12 per lb., hops $15 per oz., and you would need a thousand dollar a year license to brew. It's really a criminal operation they are running up here.

 

[mattd2]

I'm no lawyer either, but my girlfriend is, so is the judge she law clerks for. The law reads a little cloudy, but they certainly do prosecute people for homebrewing, which leads me to be believe that they are against it. The police matter because they would be the ones arresting me. They actually fly in a special prosecutor from Anchorage to try the cases. The problem is not with responsible homebrewers like myself, it's with the people who make the sugar/berry/bread yeast concoctions, drink a gallon of it, and get some sort of domestic violence charge. Maybe if they were just making beer as a hobby, drinking it responsibly, and not selling it, the community might be more open to it. But I doubt it, because they wouldn't be collecting the taxes and fees that they are now. Unless of course the town opened up a town run homebrew store. With these prices up here, yeast would cost $30, grain would be $12 per lb., hops $15 per oz., and you would need a thousand dollar a year license to brew. It's really a criminal operation they are running up here.

That sucks that it is most likely a case that most would turn a blind eye but the conciquences if they don't are just too high to risk it! How far to the next wet town?
I would be very interested in what they are getting charged with exactly.
Given your situation, if it was me I would be prinitng out the statute, going through it an striking out any clause that did not pertain to my situation, looking at what is left in regards to specifically homebrewing a certain quantity of beer per year within my home and not taking it outside of my home and seeing where i think i stand. Then (asking th GF nicely if you can pick her up one day and happen to also have all your supporting evidence with you...) take that to the judge and ask them their interpritation of the law as you have details with regards to the specific set of your circumstances. It would be quite a bit of work but worth it in my opinion

 

[Rhumbline]

So... you get an rv. drive out into the desert, uhhmm.. whatever the equivalent is in Alaska, and brew yourself some beer.

I can't be the first person who's thought of this.

 

[mattd2]

So... you get an rv. drive out into the desert, uhhmm.. whatever the equivalent is in Alaska, and brew yourself some beer.

I can't be the first person who's thought of this.

Not even into the tundra (is that what a desert is called up there ), just across the town limits ... what I don't see any roads out of town... your screwed!

 

[jmcquesten]

So... you get an rv. drive out into the desert, uhhmm.. whatever the equivalent is in Alaska, and brew yourself some beer.

I can't be the first person who's thought of this.

Well, the borough is about the size of the state of VA, and there are no roads out of here because it's all frozen tundra, so I don't think that would work. This town is located on a peninsula 30 miles north of the arctic circle and is only accessible by plane. There are roads in town, but no way to drive anywhere else.

 

[Rhumbline]

...striking out any clause that did not pertain to my situation, looking at what is left in regards to specifically homebrewing a certain quantity of beer per year within my home and not taking it outside of my home and seeing where i think i stand. Then (asking th GF nicely if you can pick her up one day and happen to also have all your supporting evidence with you...) take that to the judge and ask them their interpritation of the law as you have details with regards to the specific set of your circumstances. It would be quite a bit of work but worth it in my opinion

It's a nice thought, but I'd be shocked if any judge or prosecutor played along. They aren't in the business of advising people how to skirt the law.

Aside from that you'd be putting them on the spot, kind of giving them advance warning that you intend to violate the law.

Get an rv, and take a month vacation.

 

[jcoxen]

Sad but local laws like this are not as uncommon as you might initially think. For instance, Jack Daniels is distilled in a dry county in Tennessee. You can tour the distillery but you can't buy the product there. And TN is such a civilized state otherwise.

 

[jmcquesten]

That sucks that it is most likely a case that most would turn a blind eye but the conciquences if they don't are just too high to risk it! How far to the next wet town?
I would be very interested in what they are getting charged with exactly.
Given your situation, if it was me I would be prinitng out the statute, going through it an striking out any clause that did not pertain to my situation, looking at what is left in regards to specifically homebrewing a certain quantity of beer per year within my home and not taking it outside of my home and seeing where i think i stand. Then (asking th GF nicely if you can pick her up one day and happen to also have all your supporting evidence with you...) take that to the judge and ask them their interpritation of the law as you have details with regards to the specific set of your circumstances. It would be quite a bit of work but worth it in my opinion

This is a very good idea, but unfortunately, she's not really open to challenging this one. She didn't have a problem with me brewing back home, but up here is a different story. It's just not in the cards for me while I'm here. I wouldn't mind getting the law interpreted a little better, but not at the risk of jail time. It's kinda funny that it's not the alcohol I miss, because I have it, but more the hobby itself. This place can be really boring, not to mention dark and cold.

 

[mattd2]

It's a nice thought, but I'd be shocked if any judge or prosecutor played along. They aren't in the business of advising people how to skirt the law.

Aside from that you'd be putting them on the spot, kind of giving them advance warning that you intend to violate the law.

Get an rv, and take a month vacation.

I wasn't meaning try and find some loophole that you can twist. More actually doing the legwork yourself to determine if what you want to do is legal or not, then get the judge to consider it - ok maybe asking for an appointment would be better than putter them on the spot
Ofcorse if going through this you find a big clause that says in a damp town if the people vote no homebrewing then there shall be no homebrewing, and the people voted no homebrewing then you gotta roll-over
But my quick glance over all I saw was clause on the manufacturing (presumming for sale), homebrewing excepmtion ecept in local option, and a hole list of things that need to be voted on for local option I didn't see anything that screamed "NO HOMEBREWING!!!!!!!"

And another thing is how do towns with such bad drinking caltures end up dry anyway - sounds like the residents have to vote on going dry/damp = are the drunks just so damn drunk they don't turn up to the vote that puts an end to their drinking

 

[Rhumbline]

...And another thing is how do towns with such bad drinking caltures end up dry anyway...

Bunch of do-gooders thinking "We've got to protect the simple minded beasts from themselves"

They wrap themselves in the cloak of "protecting the innocent" while using it to hide their disdain for those they feel are "lesser beings"

It always scares me to hear someone who wants to protect me from mmyself.

 

[Cider123]

I hate that place, and I've never been there.


Here in Maine, the state and local governments never try to micromanage anything:cross:

Our state government is about broke, but they think they know better than you about everything. So what do you get? A popular event called the "unfunded mandate"

 

[opiate82]

Yeah, if it were me I'd just brew anyways. As long as you aren't selling, causing problems while drunk or sharing with people who are going to rat you out I can't imagine it'd ever actually be a problem. Just to be extra careful I might store it in empty bottles from beers that I had legally purchased up there but even that would probably be unnecessary. If people ever questioned why you have grain and/or hops you can claim it is for bread and soap making.

But since you seem pretty stuck into following the law and really you are just venting... sounds like you need a new hobby to help pass the time. Have you considered bread or soap making?

Cheers, hope your situation is very temporary.

 

[mattd2]

OK Trying to piece it together - sorry I can't let it go
I am also trying to find out how they are charging you with a class C fellony

Article 01. LICENSING AND REPORTING REQUIREMENTS

Sec. 04.11.010. License or permit required; presumption concerning possession for sale.

(a) Except as provided in AS 04.11.020 , a person may not knowingly manufacture, sell, offer for sale, possess for sale or barter, traffic in, or barter an alcoholic beverage unless under license or permit issued under this title.

(b) Except as provided in this subsection, a person may not solicit or receive orders for the delivery of an alcoholic beverage in an area that has adopted a local option under AS 04.11.491 . If the area has adopted a local option under AS 04.11.491 (a)(1), (2), or (3), or (b)(1) or (2), a package store licensee outside of that local option area may receive orders as provided under AS 04.11.150 but may not solicit in that area or receive orders through an agent or employee in that area. This subsection does not apply to a package store licensee who operates a package store in an area that has adopted a local option under AS 04.11.491 (a)(2)(C) or (3)(C) or (b)(2)(C). A person who violates this subsection is punishable upon conviction as provided under AS 04.16.200 (a) or (b) {Mattd2 - this is a Class 3 fellony}.

(c) Unless a municipality or established village has adopted a more restrictive local option under AS 04.11.491 (g), in a criminal prosecution for possession of alcoholic beverages for sale in violation of (a) of this section, the fact that a person

(1) possessed more than 10 1/2 liters of distilled spirits or 24 liters or more of wine, or either a half-keg of malt beverages or 12 gallons or more of malt beverages in individual containers in an area where the sale of alcoholic beverages is restricted or prohibited under AS 04.11.491 creates a presumption that the person possessed the alcoholic beverages for sale;

(2) sends, transports, or brings more than 10 1/2 liters of distilled spirits or 24 liters or more of wine, or either a half-keg of malt beverages or 12 gallons or more of malt beverages in individual containers to an area where the sale of alcoholic beverages is restricted or prohibited under AS 04.11.491 creates a presumption that the person sent, transported, or brought the alcoholic beverages for sale in the area.

(d) In this section,

(1) "bring" has the meaning given in AS 04.11.499 ;

(2) "send" has the meaning given in AS 04.11.499 ;

(3) "transport" has the meaning given in AS 04.11.499 .

Ok, those bits make me think that they are charging people with Class 3 fellonies for "distibuting" in a damp town without a licence.
If you don't have more than 12 gallons of beer (that is both homebrew and/or store bought) in your house at any one time (check that the town hasn't cut this limit down) then there is no presumption that you are manufacturing for sale and therefore you they would have to prove that you sold/bartered your homebrew to prosicute you, which they can't because you wouldn't do such a silly thing
of coarse this is just one small section of title 4 but you may have some legs
Sec 04.11.010(b) also seems why you have to be the one that fills out and sends the mail order form.

Although reading through it as just the clauses it does say no manufacuring except under licence/permit. Damn!

Yep reading through it a few times I would now agree with you... that sucks!

 

[Subsailor]

Add shipping costs. Like mattd2 said, it is expensive to ship things to the Bush and difficult. When ice is out of the rivers and sounds they run barges or they fly most of the year. We do not have the road and rail infrastructure of the lower 48. If the weather is bad, we have seen 10 day delays (or worse) on equipment getting to a Village Court Site. I currently live just 12 miles north of Anchorage and the shipping fees from outside to here suck royally.

Theoretically, he could sneak out to the tundra and do some brewing but look at Kotzebue on Google Maps, it is nearly an island. Where is he really going to go and how will he move all of his equipment - without drawing attention from the people.

Just as I have told friends before - do your time there and get out unless you really like it then put with rules and work to change them.

 

[mattd2]

I have to admit, I am feeling a little bit down now that there is no way for you to brew legally...
New hobby suggestions everyone, I suggest learning to TIG weld, that will come in vary handy for homebrewing when you get out of the bush.

 

[thaworm69]

That would just inspire me to make a damn good beer worth going to prison for....I bet you make good beer...can I have one?!

 

[d2xx]

saw stuff about this on Alaska state troopers on NGC. a local store turned in a guy that bought some welches grape juice, 5 lbs of sugar and some bread yeast. they went to his house and busted him for making "homebrew". they talk a lot about the locals having a major alcohol problem.

 

[Loftearmen]

I imagine there are slim pickins in the Alaskan bush...

If you don't like slim pickins move to Mississippi. Every girl you meet is a total slut, some of them are pretty hot too.... until you get hitched and then they turn into giant balls of lard. There are a bunch of dry/moist counties just like in Alaska though... Now that I think about it, maybe you shouldn't go to Mississippi

 

[neo71665]

I think that's the first time I've ever heard somebody suggest going to Mississippi for anything but to see how dirty the gulf can be or how bad a road can get.

 

[MikeP710]

Can you post the law. It would be an interesting read.

 

[rico567]

If you don't like slim pickins move to Mississippi. Every girl you meet is a total slut, some of them are pretty hot too.... until you get hitched and then they turn into giant balls of lard. There are a bunch of dry/moist counties just like in Alaska though... Now that I think about it, maybe you shouldn't go to Mississippi

I love generalizations. We are Yankees, as opposed to Damn Yankees*, and have been travelling to Mississippi since the 1970s at intervals to visit relatives. Our Mississippi must be in an alternate universe, because I have noted none of the things you mention. But if you're really interested in stereotyping, get me started on Texas.

*A Yankee is a northerner who comes to visit, a Damn Yankee comes to stay and live there.

 

[Melana]

Hey I thought Yankees were from the North East.

 

[Jayhem]

Hey I thought Yankees were from the North East.

I'm a southerner born and raised in Louisiana and never lived North of Virginia.

To us, a Yankee is anyone who lives North of the Mason Dixon line and talks funny. A Damn Yankee is anyone from NY, NJ or New England.

 

[lucasxp]

In my opinion it's crazy that the US still have places where the sale or consume of alcohol is prohibted. I was just reading about the homebrewing laws in the South East; i didn't even know there were laws for that kind of stuff.

 

[processhead]

Honestly, I'd befriend the police in town, find out if they drink, and if they do, I'd butter them up with some homebrewed beers every once in a while. The authorities there are obviously corrupt based on what you said. So, if there's something in it for them then I'm sure they wouldn't have a problem turning the other way.

Not the advice I would recommend.

Authorities that can be "persuaded" to look the other way to your activities would also have no reason not to throw you under the buss if the the circumstances made it to their advantage to do so.

If you choose to, do it, brew it, and be discrete about it.

 

[roastquake]

I'm a southerner born and raised in Louisiana and never lived North of Virginia.

To us, a Yankee is anyone who lives North of the Mason Dixon line and talks funny. A Damn Yankee is anyone from NY, NJ or New England.

I'm from SC, to us, Yankeedom starts at the NC line

 

[m3n00b]

Class 3? I wouldn't brew....I'd move.

 

[jcoxen]

Sarcasm on or off?

Ya know, I had to think about that. I didn't mean it as sarcastic but I was thinking about TN when I lived there as a boy. Nowadays...and considering some of the quotes I've seen from various elected officials...I'd have to say, "Sarcasm on".

 

[trogdor447]

Yikes... I can understand their dislike with alcohol and all that jazz. I cant imagine a small 1 gallon batch of brew raising any eyebrows etc etc. Especially if you just do it yourself, dont store a lot of it etc. I think their problems lie more in the hard liquor importing from what i seen on tv.

 

[Clef051]

I'm a southerner born and raised in Louisiana and never lived North of Virginia.

To us, a Yankee is anyone who lives North of the Mason Dixon line and talks funny. A Damn Yankee is anyone from NY, NJ or New England.

Northerners talk funny.... hmmm I always thought it was the other way around

 

[roastquake]

Northerners talk funny.... hmmm I always thought it was the other way around

I think we can all agree that Californians talk funny

 

[cpesko]

bet you can grow mmj.

 

[Clef051]

I think we can all agree that Californians talk funny

Of course.... everyone knows that.

 

[unionrdr]

The Cali folks that sound like Spicoli are from the bay area. SoCal folks sound more normal. A lot of them are from this part of the country nowadays. I found a whole string of shops near where our daughter lived in SoPas that are all from Northern Ohio. Talk about dejavue...

 

[roastquake]

...take the 101 to Tarzana, get off on the 405....

http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/the-californians/n13474/