Greetings from Iran! (sorry for the long introduction)

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Ashv1

Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2023
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Location
Iran
Hi everyone!
I'm Ash and I'm from Iran. I searched "Iran" in the forum's search out of curiosity and was pleasantly surprised to find out there's been a bunch of people from my neck of the woods here. as you may or may not know Iran is a dry country and making/selling/buying/consuming alcoholic drinks are prohibited and illegal, and because of that, many people make their own beer/wine/liquor etc. for the majority of people this is just out of necessity and they don't consider brewing or distilling a hobby, so in most cases they just want to make something alcoholic as easy and as cheap as possible to get a buzz, which i can't really fault since there's no other option. so when it comes to "brewing beer", in Iran this means you buy bunch of non-alcoholic beer(well, they're basically non-fermented carbonated wort, so you cant's even call them beer) , usually in 1 liter pet bottles, pour them in a bucket or a plastic barrel, add good ole white table sugar, as much as you can get away with for higher ABV, add your baker's yeast and let it ferment in whatever your room temperature is, which is usually much higher than optimum temp for fermentation especially with bread yeast, siphon the "beer" back to the pet bottles they came with, add priming sugar and wait.
on the other hand there are people, including myself, who view it as a hobby and enjoy the process as much as the end result . I personally find the process, the DIY equipment and the science behind brewing more enjoyable than the end result!
I know it's getting too long for an introduction, but i thought you might find these stuff interesting.
I started brewing 10 years ago and began with LME and baker's yeast, then moved to DME and brewer's yeast. my next step was going to be all grain, and i even started DIYing the all grain equipment, bought bunch of stuff from Aliexpress to make a mash tun (which ironically has removed Iran from their list and does not ship to Iran anymore. ironic because China is one of the biggest if not the biggest ally of totalitarian regime of Iran. i digress) but life happened and never got to use or even assemble my stuff.
So long story short, i've got some free time now and i want to give it a go once again. 10 years ago when i started brewing, we as a country had a tough time, both in terms of economics and foreign affairs, unfortunately now it's much much worse and sometimes i just can't fathom how people get by. I'm not saying these things to bring you down, all i'm saying is if i wanna give this a go i have to cut some corners. i remember 10 years ago a buddy of mine who lives in Australia was coming to Iran to visit family, and i asked him if he could buy me some yeast and hops, i remember i bought 15 packets of dry yeast and 500 grams of hops, though i would not call that cheap back then, it was somewhat affordable. nowadays even buying one packet of yeast is a struggle, that is if you can even find someone that has "smuggled" some in. to put things into perspective, minimum wage is 50 cents per hour (yeah, shocking!) and if you were to buy a 5$ packet of yeast you have to pay like 12-13 dollars because they're smuggled. so basically you have to spend payment of 25 hours of work on a packet of yeast! and there's always a chance of getting scammed, because you never get to see these people in person and you have to pay upfront, since brewing equipment are illegal, if they scam you, you can't really report this to "legal system".to be honest if yeast was not reusable and we didn't have local malt (which is below average at best) , brewing was just not possible for us. hops are a different story for another time!
I know this got long and all over the place and i apologize for that. all i'm trying to do here to find ways to bring the cost of brewing as low as possible and that's where i need your help. i'm planning to open new threads and ask my questions there (i've done my research too).
i'd say i'm quite up to date on conventional methods of brewing and processes that go into it, i think i'm more looking for unconventional workarounds considering my situation .
Cheers
 
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Welcome to the HBT site and a group of helpful folks!

My suggestion for your situation is to read up on some ingredients that used to be used to brew beer that are not so common by today's standards.
For instance, hops were not used for bittering at one time. Barley and wheat, the main components for brewing are widely used for lots of other things.

At the moment I can't think of good reading material but I know it's out there. Folks here will chime in once the ball gets rolling.

Good luck and keep searching!
 
Welcome to the HBT site and a group of helpful folks!

My suggestion for your situation is to read up on some ingredients that used to be used to brew beer that are not so common by today's standards.
For instance, hops were not used for bittering at one time. Barley and wheat, the main components for brewing are widely used for lots of other things.

At the moment I can't think of good reading material but I know it's out there. Folks here will chime in once the ball gets rolling.

Good luck and keep searching!
Thank you OakIslandBrewery for your welcome message and response.
regarding hops alternatives, i've seen people use tea (for its tannin), bay leaves, coriander seeds, juniper etc. since traditional medicine is big here we do have dried hops in spice shops. but obviously since they're not specialty hops there is no data about them and the amount of alpha acids and oils is unknown (if there's any!) and i've even heard you'd be better off not using them because they ruin your beer. though there are couple of companies that make "hop extract", i'm sure they're far from your typical Co2 hop extract but i'm planning to get my hands on some to try them out. actually one of my questions is about this hop extract, because they have 3-4 different types, i think it needs a thread.
by the way i've got 10-year old hops that has been chilling in the freezer, unfortunately i don't remember what kind it is, i remember i was planning to buy Cascade back then maybe it is Cascade maybe not. it's not vacuum sealed, but it's not loose either. based on Brülosophy's experiment i'd think it'll be good enough for a batch or two.
 
To me you need to decide what you want the hops to provide in a brew. In my brews I'm looking for flavor and aroma so I don't go with high alpha ratings.

Cascade is a good hop but there's a bunch others that I don't use in my brews that might work perfect for you.

I'm always interested in alternatives but I do stick with what I know works in my brewery. I think we are worlds apart but some similarities so I'll help if I can.
 
To me you need to decide what you want the hops to provide in a brew. In my brews I'm looking for flavor and aroma so I don't go with high alpha ratings.

Cascade is a good hop but there's a bunch others that I don't use in my brews that might work perfect for you.

I'm always interested in alternatives but I do stick with what I know works in my brewery. I think we are worlds apart but some similarities so I'll help if I can.
You're right. i watch a lot of beer brewing content on youtube, and i see flavor and aroma are big factors for selecting hops. my only experience with commercial beers, or a well made beer for that matter, is lager. here i'm considered lucky for being able to get my hands on brands like Heineken, Foster's, Budweiser etc, brands that are mocked in other places for not being real beers (maybe rightly so). so i may think i'd love a hoppy beer with lots of flavor and aroma and bitterness, but probably i'm used to less bitter beers that are not hop forward at all (i know aroma, flavor and bitterness depend on your hop schedule but i'm talking in general) . home brewers say they never make a recipe twice but i think i have to do the opposite. given the circumstances i need to find something that works and is sustainable. more likely a SMASH that the H needs some figuring out.
 
You're right. i watch a lot of beer brewing content on youtube, and i see flavor and aroma are big factors for selecting hops. my only experience with commercial beers, or a well made beer for that matter, is lager. here i'm considered lucky for being able to get my hands on brands like Heineken, Foster's, Budweiser etc, brands that are mocked in other places for not being real beers (maybe rightly so). so i may think i'd love a hoppy beer with lots of flavor and aroma and bitterness, but probably i'm used to less bitter beers that are not hop forward at all (i know aroma, flavor and bitterness depend on your hop schedule but i'm talking in general) . home brewers say they never make a recipe twice but i think i have to do the opposite. given the circumstances i need to find something that works and is sustainable. more likely a SMASH that the H needs some figuring out.
I've got my own recipes I have brewed many many times. Most I never change, but sometimes if I can't source the right grain or hop I have too. Sometimes with better results!

I have not done a SMaSH recipe but I getting more drawn to that direction. More out of curiosity than anything. Most if my recipes are multi grain with a single hop so I'm close. I have a Kolsch in the fermenter now; two grains, pilsner and a little munich.
 
Welcome, @Ashv1.

It's difficult to imagine your circumstance, but I'm grateful for what you've shared.

AliExpress won't ship to Iran? Crazy!

One way to save money is to maintain your own yeast culture. As long as you have reliable refrigeration, you can harvest yeast from the first beer you make with heat you've bought, and then propagate subsequent yeast starters.

Best wishes.
 
Welcome, @Ashv1.
Thanks sibelman

AliExpress won't ship to Iran? Crazy!
yep! not even on the list.

One way to save money is to maintain your own yeast culture.

this is exactly what i'm going to do and my plan sounds kinda crazy but i have to protect my yeast at all costs! just got a packet of lallemand's voss kveik, i chose this yeast because i've read kveik is very stable for reusing, either it doesn't mutate as much or at least mutated yeast is not able to take over. obviously there are other benefits to having kveik such as high temperature fermentation, but i have a spare fridge with temperature control, but it's nice to have the ability to ferment in room temperature (it's kinda funny, for years i was trying to cool down my fermenter now i have to heat it up for getting the best out of kveik). my plan is to split the packet in half, so two 5.5 grams, make a starter with one and put the other one in the freezer in case things go wrong with the starter. then split the starter in two as well, put half in the fridge and use the other half to make a batch (i think i'll be fine since kveik works well while underpitched). do a top crop also and use the trub too. even if everything goes wrong i'll have my 5.5 grams of original yeast in the freezer and can start over (i know i can't keep that in the freezer for too long ). as i said sounds crazy, extreme, paranoid and being over-cautious but i guess i gotta do what i gotta do.
 
Welcome to our forums!
Your intro is such an eye opener of your struggles while we take such things for granted and too often don't realize (or appreciate) what we have.
even if everything goes wrong i'll have my 5.5 grams of original yeast in the freezer and can start over (i know i can't keep that in the freezer for too long ).
Moisture is the enemy of dry (dried) yeast. Keep those kernels you want to save dry at all times!

To do so, only snip off a corner and dispense the 5.5 grams, if you have a scale precise enough. Then fold over that corner a few times and tape it down to the rest of the pouch, while expelling as much air as you can. Stick that pouch into a plastic bag (Ziplock if you have it). Squeeze all the air out, and seal that well too. That can be stored in the freezer until next use.

When it comes to using the saved out yeast, first let it come to room temps, wrapped up as it is. Any condensation that forms should be allowed to evaporate, before you open it. Then proceed as with the first half.

Follow the rehydration instructions from the manufacturer to a T. Don't forget you're only using half the package, so everything needs to be scaled down to half too. If something is not clear, ask us for clarification, beforehand.

What medium (fermentables) are you using for your yeast starter?
What kind of equipment are you going to use to propagate the yeast?

You can propagate that small yeast starter to a large amount, enough to ferment buckets full, as long as you can keep everything the yeast/starter touches as sanitary as possible (best would be to keep it close to sterile). There are directions online for proper yeast handling.

You can reuse the yeast harvested from a fermentation almost indefinitely, as long as you can keep it sanitary (staving off potential infections). If something unforeseen happens, you can go back to your reserve saved from a previous round of your starter. I still use yeast bought in 2015, and recently made starters from dry yeast with a best-by date of 2010!

Obviously you'll need a sanitizer of some sort. What do you have available?
 
Welcome to our forums!
Your intro is such an eye opener of your struggles while we take such things for granted and too often don't realize (or appreciate) what we have.
Thank you IslandLizard for your response and i appreciate your tips on keeping the yeast healthy and viable. i'll definitely keep those in mind

What medium (fermentables) are you using for your yeast starter?
I would prefer to use DME like everybody else but the supplier says their DME is not good for fermentation which is kinda weird because it is the same supplier that sells the grains. the other problem is that the minimum order is 5KG (about 11 lbs) that's just too much DME for my purpose, not to mention DME is much more expensive. i've asked them to add 1KG bags to their list but no response yet. so i have to make a mini all grain wort for the starter. from what i've learned i have to aim for 1.035 to 1.040 OG.

What kind of equipment are you going to use to propagate the yeast?
I have a 2 liter erlenmeyer flask and a DIY stir plate. stir plate itself does not have a heating function but i've got these low wattage flexible silicone elements that i can wrap around the flask and control the temperature using my thermostat. since i'm propagating kveik i think it's a good idea to keep the temp around 35-40 C (95-104F) even in the starter.

recently made starters from dry yeast with a best-by date of 2010
funny you should say that, because i have a packet of Safale us 05 and a packet of s-04 that expired in 2013 and 2014 respectively, based on everything i have read the viability of them should be 0, so i almost felt embarrassed to even bring that up and ask if there's any chance of reviving those. although i was going to make starters with them anyways and see the result myself, now you've given me so much hope.

Obviously you'll need a sanitizer of some sort. What do you have available?
since the beginning of my brewing journey i've been on a quest to find the equivalent of Starsan. closest i've got is this one product that is advertised as an antiseptic. ingredients are: deionized water, hydrogen peroxide, silver nitrate and phosphoric acid. it is no rinse but is not quite odder less, but not that potent either, it's workable. its contact time is 20-30 minutes compared to 1-2 minutes of Starsan and doesn't foam as much. never gone down the route of diluting bleach or things of that nature.
 
Forgive me if I suggest something that isn't available to you.

Living in Wisconsin, the Dairy land, I use a lot of cleaners and sanitizers typical used on the farm for my brewery needs. Stainless steel milk tanks and pipes aren't much different than my brewery equipment.

Perhaps see what you have available that could be used in your brewery.
 
since the beginning of my brewing journey i've been on a quest to find the equivalent of Starsan. closest i've got is this one product that is advertised as an antiseptic. ingredients are: deionized water, hydrogen peroxide, silver nitrate and phosphoric acid. it is no rinse but is not quite odder less, but not that potent either, it's workable. its contact time is 20-30 minutes compared to 1-2 minutes of Starsan and doesn't foam as much. never gone down the route of diluting bleach or things of that nature.
Can you get an Iodine based sanitizer? IIRC, those are being used in the milk and food industry, or they did in the past.

On the other hand, Starsan is mostly Phosphoric Acid with a surfactant (Dodecylbenzenesulphonic Acid). If you can source both components, you can mix your own. The first component should be fairly easy, the latter I'm not familiar with.
 
Can you get an Iodine based sanitizer? IIRC, those are being used in the milk and food industry, or they did in the past.

On the other hand, Starsan is mostly Phosphoric Acid with a surfactant (Dodecylbenzenesulphonic Acid). If you can source both components, you can mix your own. The first component should be fairly easy, the latter I'm not familiar with.
You know the science part of sanitizer more than I do. That's very helpful. I use an iodine based sanitizer ( from Fleet Farm) for items that won't stain, stainless steel, kegs, fittings, etc.
 
I use an iodine based sanitizer ( from Fleet Farm) for items that won't stain, stainless steel, kegs, fittings, etc.
When Iodine/Povidone is used on plastics it will likely stain them, leaving a yellowish to brownish color/stain, However, the stain doesn't affect the plastic or the content.
When used at correct dilutions Iodine sanitizers are also non-rinse.
 
Welcome Ashv1. I'm impressed with the amount of research you've done in advance. Good luck with your adventure.
 
Forgive me if I suggest something that isn't available to you.

Living in Wisconsin, the Dairy land, I use a lot of cleaners and sanitizers typical used on the farm for my brewery needs. Stainless steel milk tanks and pipes aren't much different than my brewery equipment.

Perhaps see what you have available that could be used in your brewery.
Actually that was a good suggestion, i did some research and found some interesting stuff, though prostatic acid is the main ingredient in most of them. if the goal is to find something that resembles Starsan the one that i already have is more resemblant, because it contains phosphoric acid.

Can you get an Iodine based sanitizer? IIRC, those are being used in the milk and food industry, or they did in the past.
The only Iodine based sanitizer i've seen is povidone iodine (known by its genericized trademark Betadine). i've heard people using it for sanitizing but since it has a strong smell and stains like crazy i never considered using it, i know it should be diluted but somehow it didn't feel right to use it. what are your thoughts on the sanitizer that i mentioned initially? it seems to work fine for me, do you think i should switch to povidone iodine?

On the other hand, Starsan is mostly Phosphoric Acid with a surfactant (Dodecylbenzenesulphonic Acid). If you can source both components, you can mix your own. The first component should be fairly easy, the latter I'm not familiar with.
I remember going down that rabbit hole few years back. i know i can source food grade phosphoric acid, but the dodecylbenzenesulfonic seems like a very uncommon chemical. maybe someone knowledgeable in chemistry could suggest an alternative surfactant.

Welcome Ashv1. I'm impressed with the amount of research you've done in advance. Good luck with your adventure.
Thank you ncbrewer.
I mean that's the least i can do, right? my motto has always been "google before asking any questions".
and thank you for your good wishes
Every Iranian person I've met was great.

Welcome to hbt!
I'm glad your experience has been positive, and thank you for your welcome message
 
what are your thoughts on the sanitizer that i mentioned initially? it seems to work fine for me, do you think i should switch to povidone iodine?
Lack of infections doesn't guaranty that your sanitizer is working. Thorough cleaning will prevent most infections - sanitizer is insurance, catching the rare issues that crop up in spite of cleaning.
 
Lack of infections doesn't guaranty that your sanitizer is working. Thorough cleaning will prevent most infections - sanitizer is insurance, catching the rare issues that crop up in spite of cleaning.
That's a fair point, but my question is what is inherently wrong with the sanitizer that i have now? why shouldn't it work? it is advertised as a disinfectant and it seems to have the right ingredients. what advantages does for instance an Iodine based sanitizer have over this?
 
what is inherently wrong with the sanitizer that i have now? why shouldn't it work?
These are valid responses. Because StarSan has become the homebrewer's standard, there's comfort in familiarity - a sort of groupthink. I used an iodine based sanitizer (similar to Povidone) for years but was persuaded to switch by another brewer, who highlighted the reusability of StarSan.

This re-use has not led to problems, but @ncbrewer is right that the absence of detected infection doesn't mean my practice is the best choice.

There's no reason to suspect your sanitizer is less functional than others, even if it's unfamiliar to U. S. and U. K. homebrewers.
 
These are valid responses. Because StarSan has become the homebrewer's standard, there's comfort in familiarity - a sort of groupthink. I used an iodine based sanitizer (similar to Povidone) for years but was persuaded to switch by another brewer, who highlighted the reusability of StarSan.
I totally get that, i've never seen a bottle of Starsan in person and even i'm biased towards it, because that's what everyone recommends. but i have to make it work with things i have available. heck if povidone iodine is tried and true sanitizer for brewing i'll switch in a heartbeat.
 
I have nothing substantive to add to the thread other than to welcome you and wish you the best of luck.

...And don't get caught.
Thanks easttex, i'll do my best not to get caught lol

Apparently, povidone (surfactant) is added to iodine to make sanitizer such as Iodophor. So I was wrong about povidone being a sanitizer.
Unfortunately the other thing that povidone does is messing with the iodine so you can't use povidone iodine for the starch test, bummer
 
Apparently, povidone (surfactant) is added to iodine to make sanitizer such as Iodophor. So I was wrong about povidone being a sanitizer.
Here's a (scholarly) article on Povidone-Iodine:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7951395/
Unfortunately the other thing that povidone does is messing with the iodine so you can't use povidone iodine for the starch test, bummer
Yeah, for the mash completion/starch test, just use a drop of (medical) Iodine from the drugstore used for cuts and scrapes. ;)
 
Yeah, for the mash completion/starch test, just use a drop of (medical) Iodine from the drugstore used for cuts and scrapes. ;)
Interesting, isn't povidone iodine the same stuff used in first aid kits? we get our povidone iodine from pharmacies (as i said before known as Betadine) and it is for cuts and wounds. googled povidone iodine and most of the images had "first aid antiseptic" written on them. at least here that's the only iodine product that pharmacies carry.
It does, but - who cares!?!?!

That said it does sound liek what you already have is working. But just somethign to think about, if the equipment's clean, then a little brown color won't hurt it.
Well i don't care. i can live with some discoloration. if it turns out stuff i'm using now is not effective i'll definitely switch.
 
Unfortunately the other thing that povidone does is messing with the iodine so you can't use povidone iodine for the starch test, bummer
A bit of web searching leads me to question whether povidone truly prevents iodine from turning purple with starch.

Some sites seem to recommend starch testing with povidone iodine. No one says you need povidone in the iodine for a starch test, but it may not interfere.

Anyhow, all this about sanitizers and starch testing is just a tiny part of the fun and challenges ahead. Happy brewing, @Ashv1.
 
A bit of web searching leads me to question whether povidone truly prevents iodine from turning purple with starch.

Some sites seem to recommend starch testing with povidone iodine. No one says you need povidone in the iodine for a starch test, but it may not interfere.

Anyhow, all this about sanitizers and starch testing is just a tiny part of the fun and challenges ahead
Yeah, someone has to do a starch test with povidone iodine, maybe it works. before this thread i was under the impression the iodine that people used for the starch test was the same stuff i had in my first aid kit.

. Happy brewing, @Ashv1.
Thank you
 
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I did the starch test every brew for a year. Eventually I realized that 30 minutes anywhere near 150F was fine. Since I mash for an hour, sometimes more if I get busy, and have a thermometer to ensure my mash temps I eventually just quit doing it. I still use the iodine for sanitizing but no longer care about the conversion thing. Might be a consideration here if the iodine is hard to find or the type is in question.
 
Welcome to the forum @Ashv1. Oh the things we take for granted, like buying brewing ingredients. I’m wondering if you’ve thought of capturing wild yeast, perhaps from fresh local fruit. I know of one mead recipe “Joe‘s ancient orange mead” that uses bakers yeast and has a sweet result when done, but the honey can be adjusted to make it dryer.
Anyway, thank you for sharing and I’m looking forward to any contributions you make in the future.
 
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