IPA into Saison? say it aint so

[Detroiter]

I brewed an IPA on 10/31 with 7oz of hops in the 70minute boil and used another oz for dry hopping when I racked into secondary on 11/7. When I tasted it before bottling it seemed great. However, I bottled it 3 weeks ago and have been trying a beer every few days for the last week and everyone tastes like a saison.

I used 3/4cup of corn sugar to prime before bottling on 11/28 and the bottles are super fizzy.

Any ideas what could have gone wrong?

 

[ArcaneXor]

I brewed an IPA on 10/31 with 7oz of hops in the 70minute boil and used another oz for dry hopping when I racked into secondary on 11/7. When I tasted it before bottling it seemed great. However, I bottled it 3 weeks ago and have been trying a beer every few days for the last week and everyone tastes like a saison.

I used 3/4cup of corn sugar to prime before bottling on 11/28 and the bottles are super fizzy.

Any ideas what could have gone wrong?

Yeah - racking to secondary too soon, measuring priming sugar by volume instead of weight, and probably inadequate temperature control. Can you give us some details on your fermentation profile and OG/FG?

 

[Detroiter]

The OG was 1.031 and the FG 1.010. The primary was a 6gallon food grade bucket with airlock and the secondary was a 5 gallon glass carboy. I kept it in a dark room that stays around 69 degrees. It didnt start fermenting until about 36 hours.

 

[gtpro]

you could try leaving them in the fridge for longer before you drink them

 

[jackson_d]

The OG was 1.031 and the FG 1.010. The primary was a 6gallon food grade bucket with airlock and the secondary was a 5 gallon glass carboy. I kept it in a dark room that stays around 69 degrees. It didnt start fermenting until about 36 hours.

Its 2.7% ABV?

That could be a probelm. 7oz of hops in a beer that is 2.7% is waaay off.

What kind of yeast did you use? Are you sure the OG is correct?

 

[buzzkill]

hop water...sooo good you can have it before work.

 

[sp1365]

Can you post the recipe? A lot of this just doesn't sound right.

 

[Detroiter]

Its 2.7% ABV?

That could be a probelm. 7oz of hops in a beer that is 2.7% is waaay off.

What kind of yeast did you use? Are you sure the OG is correct?

I used a vial of white labs british ale yeast. I had a friend who has brewed successfully take the measurement. But I can say that drinking one of these packs more of a punch than a 2.7% beer

 

[sp1365]

If you used extract and did a partial boil then there is a good chance that the water and wort were not fully mixed when the OG reading was taken. This is a very common problem. With the recipe I can tell you what your OG should have been.

Also when you say that your IPA turned into a Saison what flavors are you tasting to reach that conclusion? British yeasts are notorious for very estery flavors if fermented at higher temperatures.

 

[Detroiter]

Can you post the recipe? A lot of this just doesn't sound right.

I used 3 gallons of water and steeped the grains at 160 for 30 mins. Then I added the malt extract and brought to a boil. I then added the hops for the next 70 mins or so. Used a wort chiller and racked into primary just above 85 degrees. Added 2 more gallons of water, aerated it and took the hydrometer reading. Then pitched the yeast and kept it at 70 degrees.

 

[jackson_d]

I used 3 gallons of water and steeped the grains at 160 for 30 mins. Then I added the malt extract and brought to a boil. I then added the hops for the next 70 mins or so. Used a wort chiller and racked into primary just above 85 degrees. Added 2 more gallons of water, aerated it and took the hydrometer reading. Then pitched the yeast and kept it at 70 degrees.

Dude we are curious about the exact recipe. How many pounds of extract? Was it liquid or dry? Which grains did you steep? What kinds of hops? How many oz of each kind of hops? At what times did the diff types of hops go into the boil?

Also if you have the ability next time, boil all the water together instead of adding 2 gallons at the end. You extracted all the acid from the hops into 3 gallons of water, then you diluted it by adding 2 gallons at the end. That will really kill your bitterness. If you have a big enough pot, boil all the water together. This will make a HUGE diff in the flavor and quality of your next beer. You did a partial boil, you want to do a full boil.

 

[thirdedition]

I used 3 gallons of water and steeped the grains at 160 for 30 mins. Then I added the malt extract and brought to a boil. I then added the hops for the next 70 mins or so. Used a wort chiller and racked into primary just above 85 degrees. Added 2 more gallons of water, aerated it and took the hydrometer reading. Then pitched the yeast and kept it at 70 degrees.

That was your process, not the recipe. How many pounds of grains or extract did you start with?

 

[pjj2ba]

I suspect the OG reading is off because the top off water was not well mixed with the wort

 

[sp1365]

I suspect the OG reading is off because the top off water was not well mixed with the wort

Thats is what I am thinking as well.

I am also thinking that the "saison" flavor might be an ester problem from a high fermentation temperature. If the room was 70 then the temperature of the beer might be closer to 78-80* which could release high levels of esters.

 

[Detroiter]

If you used extract and did a partial boil then there is a good chance that the water and wort were not fully mixed when the OG reading was taken. This is a very common problem. With the recipe I can tell you what your OG should have been.

Also when you say that your IPA turned into a Saison what flavors are you tasting to reach that conclusion? British yeasts are notorious for very estery flavors if fermented at higher temperatures.

It tastes like a wheat beer. I'm not the best at picking out flavors but if you've ever had golden cap by new holland here in Michigan they taste about the same. I also had an ale from arbor brewing that seemed to taste the same.

 

[sp1365]

Esters are one of the key characteristics of wheat beers, which can be formed when English Ale yeasts are fermented at too high of a temperature. I would look into fermentation control for your next beer. It does not need to be complicated. I use a tub with water and a few pop bottles of water I froze. Try to get the actual fermentation temperature (temp of the beer) under 70*. That should help get the esters under control.

 

[Detroiter]

Esters are one of the key characteristics of wheat beers, which can be formed when English Ale yeasts are fermented at too high of a temperature. I would look into fermentation control for your next beer. It does not need to be complicated. I use a tub with water and a few pop bottles of water I froze. Try to get the actual fermentation temperature (temp of the beer) under 70*. That should help get the esters under control.

Thanks for all the help. I am at work right now and don't have the recipe on me. I would say though it was about 3lbs of 2 row steeped for 30 mins. Then I added 7lbs of wet malt extract and brought to a boil. I added 2 ozs of Columbus hops and 3 oz centennial then at 30 mins added another oz of centennial and at 50 minutes added 2oz cascade. I stopped the boil around 65 minutes then used a wort chiller, aerated it with a drill and added the last two gallons and picked my British ale yeast.

I love hoppy beers so do you think I should use a differen yeast? Also I don't understand what you mean about the pop bottles being frozen?

 

[sp1365]

Alright, A couple of things.

1. 2-Row cannot be steeped, it must be mashed. Now depending on what temperature you steeped it at then you might have actually done a partial mash since many well-modified malts can be converted in under an hour. Do you know what temperature that you held it at?

Given that you got conversion (which is possible, but I am not sure), then your OG is somewhere around 1.061.

2.Do you know what AA% (alpha acid %) the various hops were? Using the standard AA% in BeerSmith I got 150.5 IBU which is very bitter and not very balanced.

In the future, for hoppy beers I would use an American Ale strain over a British Ale strain of yeast. American yeast strains tend to have more neutral yeast flavors that allow the hop and malt flavors to shine through. A couple of examples would be Fermentis S-05 (dry) or White Labs WL001 California Ale (Liquid).

I mean just that. I filled a couple Diet Coke bottles with water and put them in the freezer. Helps keep the water in my swamp cooler cool and keeps the fermentation temperature down. I'll post pictures in a few of my set up.

 

[Detroiter]

Ok. I will try and find what kind of grains they were. I steeped them at 160* for 30 mins. Thanks for the tip on the American yeast.

The Columbus hops were 14% the centennial were about 7 and the cascade around 5.

I also noticed that something, I'm guessing the extract, was charred to the bottom of the stock pot. Youthink I had the heat up to high or it's because of the smaller pot?

 

[sp1365]

Yeah, if you could post the recipe tonight then it would be a big help at dialing in what the recipe should look like and we can further diagnose the issue from there.

As for the charring, it is fairly common especially if you didn't stir while adding the extract. Since the extract is heavier than water and made up of sugar it sinks to the bottom of the pot and burns if not stirred. The best ways to avoid this are to stir while adding the extract and remove the pot from the heat while adding.

 

[jackson_d]

or just add the extract before the pot starts to boil..

you carmelized your wort. you added the extract while the boil was going and it was too hot and it burned the sugars in the extract...

add the extract right away, while the pot is cool, as you are waiting for the pot to boil, then start your timer when the boil begins..

also

GET A BIGGER POT AND DO FULL BOILS! seriously, this will add dramatic good flavors to your beer. boil 6 gal down to 5. dont dop partial boils anymore. you will thank me the first time you do it, especially if you are a fan of hoppy beers. google 30qt stock pot. Thats 7.5 gal. thats big enuff to do a 6 gal boil to end up with final volume of 5 gal.. They should be no more than $20-30 for a good pot, that *may* still boil on your stove.. big big BIG taste diff in your beers...