All my beers have this overpowering off flavor after bottling

[Ali01]

Nearly all my homebrews taste the same! I've been brewing here's, porters and pale ales with different yeasts such as s04, us05 and t58 and they all have this weird off flavor I don't know how to describe but from what I've read it's phenols, my last two homebrews were phenolic before bottling, this time I used s04 and fermented below 22c, there's a thermometer inside the carboy, it tasted fine before bottling, fruity, sweet, now there's no more of that drinkable beer, it's been in the bottle for 12 days at room temp, I sterlized the priming sugar, I use star san at a ph below 3.5 and I'm so careful with oxygen, maybe it's the water, then again, if that was the case, why did the beer taste fine before bottling? Could it be chlorine? I add metabisulfate putassium powder to my RO water right before mashing to make sure there's no chlorine, but maybe that powder is just fake stuff? Should I let my water sit overnight? I don't know, my wort is always at the right ph, I usually hit my og, the wort is sweet...
Maybe it's not phenols? Theres a harsh bitterness different from that of hops, despite being 3 percent abv, the beer gives you a headache

 

[hotbeer]

Only 12 days since you bottled? Wait till they are a month from bottling and taste again.

Though it appears from the way you wrote the OP that you've had previous batches that taste the same. Did they improve or change taste with more time after bottling?

Were all the brews you aren't satisfied with dry hopped or anything different than just normal mash with hops added during the boil?

3% ABV is pretty low. While I've tried brewing some low ABV beers of my own design from recipes for higher ABV beers, I'm going to have to do some research on brewing for lower ABV. I wasn't completely happy with the way they turned out. Usually 5.25 - 7.7 ABV is the sweet spot for the beers I've been brewing that I'm happy with.

I read somewhere that it was stated that low ABV beers are more prone to infection and have more issues after bottling. I don't know how credible that is. But there might be some valid reasoning for it.

 

[Ali01]

Only 12 days since you bottled? Wait till they are a month from bottling and taste again.

Though it appears from the way you wrote the OP that you've had previous batches that taste the same. Did they improve or change taste with more time after bottling?

Were all the brews you aren't satisfied with dry hopped or anything different than just normal mash with hops added during the boil?

3% ABV is pretty low. While I've tried brewing some low ABV beers of my own design from recipes for higher ABV beers, I'm going to have to do some research on brewing for lower ABV. I wasn't completely happy with the way they turned out. Usually 5.25 - 7.7 ABV is the sweet spot for the beers I've been brewing that I'm happy with.

I read somewhere that it was stated that low ABV beers are more prone to infection and have more issues after bottling. I don't know how credible that is. But there might be some valid reasoning for it.

My previous brew has been in the bottle for 3 months and it is still undrinkable. I gotta say that off flavor existed even before bottling, but now it's overpowering all the other flavors, so here's what I'm gonna do next time, I will use bottled water, up the og, ferment cooler, more time in the carboy, then gelatin +cold crashing, more time in the bottle. I'll see if that changes anything, but given the problem exists in all my homebrews despite the fact that I used different yeast strains, different recipes, the problem might be my water. That's what all my batches have in common

 

[BongoYodeler]

Are you staying within the recommended temperature range during fermentation?

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

Chlorine in your water wouldn't add any bitterness to your beer, and I can't imagine anyone going to the effort to counterfeit potassium metabisulfite, but I realize ingredients are a challenge to procure in your country.

You mention a "harsh bitterness, different from that of hops"... Other than hops, are you using any roasted malts? Are you roasting any of these malts? Tho if it was really that, I would think you'd taste that it was harshly bitter before you even got around to adding hops and boiling.

So my only other idea, is maybe you've got some hops that are much more bitter than you believe they are...

 

[MaxStout]

Harsh bitterness, different than hops. Perhaps it's astringency? Is it an off-flavor that is like tasting a tea bag, makes your mouth pucker?

That could be caused by a few different things. Over-sparging, use of certain roasted malts like black malt, high mash temps, high mash pH, polyphenols from using a lot of low-alpha hops.

 

[ba-brewer]

How is the carbonation level, do you get gushers?

OK in the carboy but bad in the bottle could be racking cane and tubing or the bottles.

 

[sibelman]

taste fine before bottling

Beer changes with time. It could be that time/conditioning somehow brings this overpowering bitterness to the fore, even though it was somehow concealed when the beer was young. But maybe not, so...

I'm wondering about your bottling. How do you clean and sanitize your bottles?

 

[Ali01]

Are you staying within the recommended temperature range during fermentation?

Yes I am

 

[Ali01]

Harsh bitterness, different than hops. Perhaps it's astringency? Is it an off-flavor that is like tasting a tea bag, makes your mouth pucker?

That could be caused by a few different things. Over-sparging, use of certain roasted malts like black malt, high mash temps, high mash pH, polyphenols from using a lot of low-alpha hops.

I always use Vienna malt as my base malt, I used it in a hefe recipe, no roasted malts and there's still the same off flavor... I keep my mash ph between 5.2 and 5.3. that bitterness is not like hop bitterness, makes my mouth pucker, that was accurate, it also makes my mouth a little numb, could it be my water?

 

[Ali01]

Beer changes with time. It could be that time/conditioning somehow brings this overpowering bitterness to the fore, even though it was somehow concealed when the beer was young. But maybe not, so...

I'm wondering about your bottling. How do you clean and sanitize your bottles?

Ok it was my first time using those bottles, I bought some bottles, washes them with water, then I rinsed them with starsan, could it be the chlorine in the star san solution? I'm sure I used RO water for my starsan solution

 

[rburrelli]

I always use Vienna malt as my base malt, I used it in a hefe recipe, no roasted malts and there's still the same off flavor... I keep my mash ph between 5.2 and 5.3. that bitterness is not like hop bitterness, makes my mouth pucker, that was accurate, it also makes my mouth a little numb, could it be my water?

Yes. Water is something to look at. How are you measuring ph?

 

[Ali01]

Yes. Water is something to look at. How are you measuring ph?

I'm using a ph meter, I have two buffer solutions I use to calibrate it every time
I'm thinking about using distilled water, but the only salts I have to add to it are calcium sulfate and calcium chloride, I don't think they'll be enough for a healthy fermentation right?

 

[ba-brewer]

calcium sulfate and calcium chloride is all you need to build your water.

 

[Ali01]

calcium sulfate and calcium chloride is all you need to build your water.

I mean, distilled water is striped of so many minerals, and I've heard that the yeast need some minerals, is that ok?

 

[ba-brewer]

If you have calcium sulfate and calcium chloride to add to the distilled water that is enough. Malt will bring in additional minerals for the yeast. You can also use kosher salt and epsom salt to add other elements to the water but just calcium sulfate and calcium chloride is sufficient.

You can also add old yeast slurry to the end of the boil for yeast nutrients.

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

I always use Vienna malt as my base malt, I used it in a hefe recipe, no roasted malts and there's still the same off flavor... I keep my mash ph between 5.2 and 5.3. that bitterness is not like hop bitterness, makes my mouth pucker, that was accurate, it also makes my mouth a little numb, could it be my water?

Not sure if English is your native language (if not, you speak type amazingly well). But maybe some things get lost in translation? Things that make my mouth pucker, are sour (like biting into a lemon), not bitter like hops or strong coffee that sat too long on the warming pad.

But if things taste good until after you've bottled, there must be something (bacteria?) hiding in your bottling wand or tubing or your bottles. What is the pH of one of these finished/bottled beers?

 

[IslandLizard]

I bought some bottles, washes them with water, then I rinsed them with starsan

Depending on their source and how clean/dirty they are (transport, storage), you may need to actually clean those bottles (better). A mere "water wash" may not be sufficient.

Use some (cheap) washing soda (Sodium Carbonate) or some (generic) Oxiclean. Use a bottle brush with it. Then rinse with clean water and treat with StarSan. Let drip out a bit before filling. Also wash/sanitize the caps.

If you're not bottling right after washing/rinsing/sanitizing, retreat with Starsan right before bottling.

 

[mac_1103]

I thoroughly sterilize all equipment with B-Brite for all brewing, transfering, bottling, etc.

B-Brite is a cleanser, not a sanitizer. That doesn't necessarily mean that your problem is infection, but if all you're using is B-Brite then you aren't sanitizing your equipment.

 

[jerrylotto]

After cleaning them, I sanitize my glass bottles by heating them to 350 degrees F in the oven for 10 minutes and letting them cool. Works beautifully and there is no need to dry them afterwards

 

[Beermeister32]

I had the phenolic taste in my early batches. It is caused by Chloramine in your tap water. Chloramine is more difficult to remove than Chlorine, and it will cause phenolic taste in beer.

The problem went away as soon as I switched over to bottled water. Here in SoCal Crystal Geyser works pretty well. They have a water report available online, works with many styles without water modification.

 

[jerrylotto]

You can eliminate monochloramine with sodium (or potassium) metabisulfite (aka Campden tablets). The reaction is nearly instantaneous.

 

[jerrylotto]

I'm using a ph meter, I have two buffer solutions I use to calibrate it every time
I'm thinking about using distilled water, but the only salts I have to add to it are calcium sulfate and calcium chloride, I don't think they'll be enough for a healthy fermentation right?

I'm sure you can find non-iodized salt (NaCl) and baking soda (NaHCO3) as well. Maybe Epsom salt (MgSO4) to use sparingly. The only other thing you need is an acid (phosphoric or lactic) to adjust pH.

 

[hottpeper13]

Are you taking your valves apart to clean? The ball valves have an area behind the nylon seals that has to be disassembled to clean. Also the spring on the bottling wand collects gunk and the bucket valve also comes apart.

 

[Ali01]

Not sure if English is your native language (if not, you speak type amazingly well). But maybe some things get lost in translation? Things that make my mouth pucker, are sour (like biting into a lemon), not bitter like hops or strong coffee that sat too long on the warming pad.

But if things taste good until after you've bottled, there must be something (bacteria?) hiding in your bottling wand or tubing or your bottles. What is the pH of one of these finished/bottled beers?

Thanks, yes pucker was not the word I was looking for, it's not really that sour, just a tiny bit, that off flavor I don't know how to describe is overpowering everything else, it's bitter and medical tasting, that's the best way I can describe it, I haven't measured that, had to left home again

 

[JohnDBrewer]

Has anyone else tasted this off flavor? Bring some beers to the next homebrew club meeting or to the local brewery in town, see if they taste it and can identify it.

Have you had covid recently? This still screws with some folks senses.

 

[Ali01]

I've noticed that all have the same, hard-to-describe fore/aftertaste to them, regardless of the type I'm brewing or the ingredients I use. At first I thought it was a carbonating error that was affecting flavor but even when I've gotten the carbonation nearly perfect with the last few brews, the taste is still there. I've used Brewer's Best kits and then a la carte ingredients from my local homebrew store. I've used specialty grains, spices, and even fresh vegetables (for my pumpkin porter). I've used filtered Brita water and "bottled" purified water. Doesn't matter, same "non-beer" taste. I really wish I had a good description of it. It's not quite astringent but it's noticeable upon drinking and in the belch(es) that inevitably follow(s) in a round of good drinking. It's like a "sterile" or "chemically bland" taste, something that greatly detracts from what the beer is supposed to taste like based on ingredients (even with "strong" ingredients). The only thing I can think of is that there's something wrong with my equipment or my method. I thoroughly sterilize all equipment with B-Brite for all brewing, transfering, bottling, etc. (I'm bottles only at this point), though the taste is noticeable after secondary "fermentation" and before bottling. Is it possible I'm "burning" the wort by boiling at too high a temperature? My "kettle" does have a small amount of burnt malt residue on the bottom (from my first homebrew attempt) but it's been scrubbed over and over without the burnt residue coming off and is thoroughly washed before each use (but not sterilized). Maybe no one can tell me what's up without tasting but I'm hoping this scenario sounds familiar to someone and there are some words of wisdom out there. I'm SO tired of having my IPAs taste like my porters and scotch ales because of this "off" taste/quality. Please help! Thanks!

I have the exact same problem

 

[Ali01]

Are you taking your valves apart to clean? The ball valves have an area behind the nylon seals that has to be disassembled to clean. Also the spring on the bottling wand collects gunk and the bucket valve also comes apart.

I've used different equipment with different cleaning material, still the same

 

[IslandLizard]

Thanks, yes pucker was not the word I was looking for, it's not really that sour, just a tiny bit, that off flavor I don't know how to describe is overpowering everything else, it's bitter and medical tasting, that's the best way I can describe it, I haven't measured that, had to left home again

There are quite a few sensories in the mouth, aside from temperature, the easiest ones are flavor, aroma, and mouthfeel.
Much of flavor is actually linked to aroma, the nose (olfactory organ) being the major detector.
But there are many flavors that work on the tongue, palate, cheeks, etc.

"Pucker" is a mouthfeel associated with acids, IIRC.
Astringency (e.g., sucking on a teabag) is a sensation toward the back of the tongue, and different from bitterness which is more on the sides on the back of the tongue.

Many of our tasting sensations go together, making it complex, it takes experience and training to differentiate among the various components.

[...] it's bitter and medical tasting

"Medical tasting" seems to point to chlorophenols. Often described as "Band-Aid flavor" what Band-Aids "smell like." <== A good example how smell and flavor are so intertwined.

In beer, bitterness usually comes from the hops, but could be accentuated or found unpleasant due to other sensories, such as astringency, or sourness (sourness and bitterness don't fare well together).

 

[40yr@HB]

Nearly all my homebrews taste the same! I've been brewing here's, porters and pale ales with different yeasts such as s04, us05 and t58 and they all have this weird off flavor I don't know how to describe but from what I've read it's phenols, my last two homebrews were phenolic before bottling, this time I used s04 and fermented below 22c, there's a thermometer inside the carboy, it tasted fine before bottling, fruity, sweet, now there's no more of that drinkable beer, it's been in the bottle for 12 days at room temp, I sterlized the priming sugar, I use star san at a ph below 3.5 and I'm so careful with oxygen, maybe it's the water, then again, if that was the case, why did the beer taste fine before bottling? Could it be chlorine? I add metabisulfate putassium powder to my RO water right before mashing to make sure there's no chlorine, but maybe that powder is just fake stuff? Should I let my water sit overnight? I don't know, my wort is always at the right ph, I usually hit my og, the wort is sweet...
Maybe it's not phenols? Theres a harsh bitterness different from that of hops, despite being 3 percent abv, the beer gives you a headache

Could you provide a recipe of the latest batch?

 

[Ali01]

Has anyone else tasted this off flavor? Bring some beers to the next homebrew club meeting or to the local brewery in town, see if they taste it and can identify it.

Have you had covid recently? This still screws with some folks senses.

No I have not

 

[Ali01]

Could you provide a recipe of the latest batch?

It was 85 percent Vienna and 15 percent crystal 10L, with Columbus for bittering my I used a very low amount maybe not even 20 abv

 

[IrondaleBrewing]

Thanks, yes pucker was not the word I was looking for, it's not really that sour, just a tiny bit, that off flavor I don't know how to describe is overpowering everything else, it's bitter and medical tasting, that's the best way I can describe it, I haven't measured that, had to left home again

My first best guess with "medical," if by that you mean plastic/"band-aid" flavors, would be chlorine. Particularly if it's consistent across all your batches I'd start there.

 

[JohnDBrewer]

No I have not

In response to has anyone else tasted your beer or recent covid, you need to have someone else taste it. I've convinced myself many times over the years certain beers had an issue.

 

[InspectorJon]

Given the OP’s location (Iran), I wonder where you are sourcing your malt? Is it possible that something has been added to the malt to interfere with fermentation? Conspiracy theories abound.

RO water should not have chlorine in it, so that seems to be ruled out, unless I’m wrong about RO removing chlorine.

 

[beren]

Given the OP’s location (Iran), I wonder where you are sourcing your malt? Is it possible that something has been added to the malt to interfere with fermentation? Conspiracy theories abound.

RO water should not have chlorine in it, so that seems to be ruled out, unless I’m wrong about RO removing chlorine.

I thought ro was for salts, and a carbon filter was needed for chlorine.

 

[jerrylotto]

I thought ro was for salts, and a carbon filter was needed for chlorine.

Reverse osmosis removes most everything, but chlorine will damage an RO membrane, so it is common to pre-filter through one or more carbon filters to remove chlorine and chloramides first.

 

[jerrylotto]

My first best guess with "medical," if by that you mean plastic/"band-aid" flavors, would be chlorine. Particularly if it's consistent across all your batches I'd start there.

Chlorophenols are the origin of that taste fault, actually formed from free chlorine or mono-chloramide during fermentation. These are often used as sanitizers for municipal water sources.

 

[Ali01]

Given the OP’s location (Iran), I wonder where you are sourcing your malt? Is it possible that something has been added to the malt to interfere with fermentation? Conspiracy theories abound.

RO water should not have chlorine in it, so that seems to be ruled out, unless I’m wrong about RO removing chlorine.

There are people who have success with those malts , I recently realized those malts are somehow added to brew father's fermentables.

Here's what I'm gonna do next time, I'm gonna get some distilled water, add the essential salts and see if that fixes anything

 

[Ali01]

Is it ok to use crystal 10L and 60L 9 percent each?