Getting IPAs lower FG/8% ABV

[MrEggSandwich]

This may sound dumb, but what the hell. I find my IPAs finish 1.012-1.016 for the most parts and the yeast “does it’s job” meaning it’s attenuated within advertised range. I’ve used Chico, Kviek, Dry English (usually Omega), starters on stir plates, etc. low mash temps.

So I guess my question boils down to this: how are you getting low FG with IPAs with OGs of 1.070+

for instance: Pliny Elder/Heady clones claim 8% abv with Chico/Conan. My latest brew started at 1.072 and finished at 1.016 with British Ale yeast, which is more attenuative than Chico or Conan.

obviously little/no crystal, low mash...

what am I missing here?

 

[dwhite60]

Add some sugar in the recipe to dry it out or add some amylase enzyme to break down the dextrins remaining in it. Amylase enzyme can get you down to 1.000 though which is into "Brut IPA" range.

In five gallons at 1.070 gravity a pound or a pound and a half of sugar, maybe even two pounds, will have little flavor impact. It will change the mouthfeel though.


All the Best,
D. White

 

[dnr]

I don't want to hijack the thread, but I tried adding about a pound of brown sugar boiled down into my mash for 5 gallons.
I went from a 1.055 OG to 1.020 right before bottling. Will my FG be considered what's in the bottle in 2 weeks? Also, would I have to add sugar to most recipes to get over 5.5%?

 

[dwhite60]

I don't want to hijack the thread, but I tried adding about a pound of brown sugar boiled down into my mash for 5 gallons.
I went from a 1.055 OG to 1.020 right before bottling. Will my FG be considered what's in the bottle in 2 weeks? Also, would I have to add sugar to most recipes to get over 5.5%?

At 1.020 you probably had a ways to go. I would expect like 1.012 max. for an all grain with added sugar. Be careful with those bottles.

All the Best,
D. White

 

[Kickass]

I think what @dwhite60 was getting at was: don’t add sugar but substitute some of your base malt gravity points for simple sugar.

If you add sugar you’ll have a higher OG bit still finish at the same FG. If you substitute, say 10-15% of your base malt for sugar, then you’ll drop your FG.

 

[dnr]

At 1.020 you probably had a ways to go. I would expect like 1.012 max. for an all grain with added sugar. Be careful with those bottles.

All the Best,
D. White

Do you think I have to work about bottle bombs? I used Baker's yeast. Not sure if that matters much. (Ale yeast wouldn't activate and I have no local Brew shops)
Is FG considered right before bottling?

I think what @dwhite60 was getting at was: don’t add sugar but substitute some of your base malt gravity points for simple sugar.

If you add sugar you’ll have a higher OG bit still finish at the same FG. If you substitute, say 10-15% of your base malt for sugar, then you’ll drop your FG.

Did I just make my beers sweeter? Thank you for that very helpful info, though.

Also also... Is there a way to avoid a bottle bomb situation with 24 bottles in a ~65°F dark cabinet?

 

[Dr_Jeff]

Consider using a lower and longer mash temperature, say 146-149 for 90-120 minutes

 

[dwhite60]

Do you think I have to work about bottle bombs? I used Baker's yeast. Not sure if that matters much. (Ale yeast wouldn't activate and I have no local Brew shops)
Is FG considered right before bottling?



Did I just make my beers sweeter? Thank you for that very helpful info, though.

Also also... Is there a way to avoid a bottle bomb situation with 24 bottles in a ~65°F dark cabinet?

Bottling at 1.020 you need to be careful with them. Keep them in a plastic tub with a lid.

You can vent them by lifting the lid just enough to let some pressure out and re-crimping the caps.

All the Best,
D. White

 

[bracconiere]

and here i come to save the day!


you can always add glucoamylase, not amylase but gluco. most distilling websites sell it by the pound for reatively cheap....and then you'll get 1.000...

they didn't like me here, but i'd recommend it....


https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/anyone-brewing-brut-ipa.650325/

 

[couchsending]

Mash at 145/147 for 90 minutes

Use dextrose

Pliny is 1.069 starting gravity with what equates to 1lb of sugar in a 5 gallon batch.

 

[ChaosB]

Last 5 gallon batch used almost 20 lbs of grain, mostly 2 row. Went from 1.092 down to 1.014 for 10.24%. No sugar added. Mashed at 149 for 75 mins. PH 5.25. smallest possible crush BIAB.

Oxygenated wort and Pitched a 2 L starter of WLP001 and 2 packets of US-05. Kept temp at 68 F, ramping up to 69 F for last 2 days.

 

[Mer-man]

Where are you getting 2-row in Korea? I understand that north 'murrica consumes its entire production

Last 5 gallon batch used almost 20 lbs of grain, mostly 2 row. Went from 1.092 down to 1.014 for 10.24%. No sugar added. Mashed at 149 for 75 mins. PH 5.25. smallest possible crush BIAB.

Oxygenated wort and Pitched a 2 L starter of WLP001 and 2 packets of US-05. Kept temp at 68 F, ramping up to 69 F for last 2 days.

 

[ChaosB]

Where are you getting 2-row in Korea? I understand that north 'murrica consumes its entire production

I can get 50 lb bags of Briess in Seoul. There's a store there called Seoul Homebrew, they also ship throughout the peninsula.

 

[AzOr]

There’s a bunch of IPA recipes that include some table sugar or dextrose.

I’ve added up to 1 1/4 lbs of sugar and the fg is 008-010 range from 065.

I really like the mouthfeel it adds.

I’m not a regular IPA drinker but I do occasionally like several of Breakside’s IPA’s including Wanderlust. I’ve read that they may use adjuncts as well.

 

[MrEggSandwich]

Thanks all!

 

[MrEggSandwich]

Consider using a lower and longer mash temperature, say 146-149 for 90-120 minutes

This is where I need to focus on. I'm rushing my mash.

 

[dnr]

I was just reading that it's a good idea to throw a small batch onto your sediment (from primary within 24 hours after racking) to then make a higher gravity brew. Any luck with this process?

 

[Mer-man]

I was just reading that it's a good idea to throw a small batch onto your sediment (from primary within 24 hours after racking) to then make a higher gravity brew. Any luck with this process?

If by "batch" you mean a person who is agitating and getting in your way then yes, I would throw him/her onto your sediment.

If you mean to use a full yeast cake to ferment a hight gravity biatch, then yes that will work but you should be looking to get maximum fermentability.

 

[smata67]

1- Use a yeast that has a high attenuation or stated as finishing dry. For IPAs, Nottingham does a decent job. Pitch a couple of packets into 5G.
2- Mash in the 140s and for longer periods. I am mashing overnight now, give it a try. It breaks up the brew day so I’m not having to brew all day long.
3- Pitch a lot of yeast and ferment at optimum temperatures with control. Use liquid yeasts with starters or yeast cakes from previous batches. Shoot for twice what the calculators are telling you to pitch. For a 5 gallon batch, 300-400B will do. Provide lots of oxygen.
5- Avoid LME and DME. I’ve never been able to get below 1.020 with LME. Your results may vary.
6- Start with a high OG if what you are after is high ABVs. If you still finish high, well, you still have a high alcohol content.
7- Use enzymes. I’ve never experimented with this, but you can chop up unfermentables into simpler sugars and you can get down low, but maybe too low, you don’t have control over the end product. I consider this “cheating” and have never used them, but hey, why not, the end of times is near.

 

[alexipas]

1- Use a yeast that has a high attenuation or stated as finishing dry. For IPAs, Nottingham does a decent job. Pitch a couple of packets into 5G.
2- Mash in the 140s and for longer periods. I am mashing overnight now, give it a try. It breaks up the brew day so I’m not having to brew all day long.
3- Pitch a lot of yeast and ferment at optimum temperatures with control. Use liquid yeasts with starters or yeast cakes from previous batches. Shoot for twice what the calculators are telling you to pitch. For a 5 gallon batch, 300-400B will do. Provide lots of oxygen.
5- Avoid LME and DME. I’ve never been able to get below 1.020 with LME. Your results may vary.
6- Start with a high OG if what you are after is high ABVs. If you still finish high, well, you still have a high alcohol content.
7- Use enzymes. I’ve never experimented with this, but you can chop up unfermentables into simpler sugars and you can get down low, but maybe too low, you don’t have control over the end product. I consider this “cheating” and have never used them, but hey, why not, the end of times is near.

Im really intrigued by this whole mash all night statement. I assume you have a grainfather/brewzilla? Can you mash for to long?

I always thought dropping mash temps would drop body, and increasing mash temps would increase that body feeling. Have i had this backward the whole time!?

 

[dnr]

By "batch" I meant "batch". The quantity of a good produced at one time.
If this is incorrect terminology, I don't mean to get it wrong. I was just trying to extend some information I'd read on the topic earlier.

 

[smata67]

Im really intrigued by this whole mash all night statement. I assume you have a grainfather/brewzilla? Can you mash for to long?

I always thought dropping mash temps would drop body, and increasing mash temps would increase that body feeling. Have i had this backward the whole time!?

No special equipment needed, the mash sits in the mash tun (in my case a cooler) overnight. That way you just do the boil, cooling, and pitching the next day. It does not result in a more attenuated beer. The mash will convert to a point based on the temperature and stop. Whether it sits for 3 hours or 12 hours makes no difference. But if you rush the process and move on to your boil with only a 60 minute mash, for example, then you have shorted yourself. You can do an iodine test to see if conversion is complete, but that is just one small sample and may not represent the condition of the entire mash. No question you have fully converted if you let it sit 12 hours.

Lower mash temperatures result in more simpler sugars being produced that result in more attenuation (lower finished gravity) and a drier beer. That is why the use of sugar is being suggested to get lower.

 

[smata67]

Fool around with this calculator to see how SG and FG affect ABV and how attenuation is calculated. Note how a 1.083 beer, for example, that ends in 1.016 gives an 80% attenuation (which is VERY good for a higher gravity beer). So you should typically be very happy to get to 1.016. I believe your original question is, why can't I get to below 1.010 with this SG? Well, very high attenuation is needed, many yeasts will plain just not get you there. You have to have the right yeast and pitch a healthy population. It is not just about the fermentables, but those also have to be available. Also, the ABV starts getting very high and alcohol is not well tolerated by most yeasts. Getting down low with a high starting gravity is a challenge for any brewer. I for one, have sometimes failed to get the attenuation I wanted even after using the proper yeast with twice the recommended population, warmer fermentation temperatures, mashing low, adding simple sugars, etc. In effect doing everything right.

https://www.brewersfriend.com/abv-calculator/

 

[couchsending]

Im really intrigued by this whole mash all night statement. I assume you have a grainfather/brewzilla? Can you mash for to long?

I always thought dropping mash temps would drop body, and increasing mash temps would increase that body feeling. Have i had this backward the whole time!?

Theres no reason to mash overnight and you can potentially do more damage than good.

 

[couchsending]

In order to push the limits of your yeast from an attenuation standpoint and potential ABV you need a lot of yeast and proper o2 levels. Unless you’re oxygenating with a stone and pure O2 you will never get there.

1056/001/US05 is the most reliable “clean” yeast to hit higher attenuation and alcohol goals. If you want to go higher you need STA1+ positive yeasts and 9 times out of 10 those aren’t “clean”.

 

[lowtones84]

I agree with the long/low mash and addition of some sugar. I've been doing at least two steps before sparge recently and it has been working out very well for me. 146-148 60 minutes, add a measured amount of boiling water to get me to 152 for another 30.

One temp for the whole 90+ minutes should be fine too, this is just what I prefer. With the addition of somewhere around 10% sugar and a healthy pitch, no reason you shouldn't be getting down to 1.006-1.008 or lower.