First go at Cider

[jamorgan3777]

Just set up my first go at this. Read some recipes and techniques and decided to start simple.

4gal of Indian Summer Apple Juice (no preservatives)
1package of Nottigham Ale Yeast

Will taste and backsweeten when its fermented out.

Question: If I am kegging and force carbing in a keezer, do I need to kill off the yeast if I backsweeten much (thinking another 1/2gal or so of apple juice. Will it keep fermenting at 2-4 degrees C (where I keep my keezer)?

 

[bernardsmith]

Back sweetening means that you add sugar that will not be fermented but will remain as the sweetener. Unless you add a non fermentable sugar then the yeast does not care if you are back sweetening or adding sugar to boost the ABV. The yeast will simply ferment the added apple juice. Brewers who make cider often use heat to kill the yeast - That IMO, damages the flavor and sets pectins. Wine-makers tend to use K-meta and K-sorbate so yer pays yer money and yer takes yer chance.

 

[laredo7mm]

...do I need to kill off the yeast if I backsweeten much (thinking another 1/2gal or so of apple juice. Will it keep fermenting at 2-4 degrees C (where I keep my keezer)?

You should be fine if you keep it chilled. Nottingham will not ferment much, if at all, at those temperatures.

 

[jamorgan3777]

That was what I was thinking. I dont plan to bottle, just transfer to Keg and keep it at 2-4C until its gone.

 

[madscientist451]

Other things you can use to back sweeten the cider with are splenda (won't ferment) and frozen apple juice concentrate (won't dilute your abv)
You may want to try a 1 or 2 gallon batch at first to see if you like that juice-yeast combination.
I've used Nottingham yeast in cider and didn't like the yeast character it provided. Everyone has their own tastes and that yeast may be ok for you.

 

[Sourz4life]

I've used nottingham on a couple of my ciders and depending on the cider have had good experience. If you don't plan to use any sulfites such as k sorbate then i'd go with the non fermentable sugars. However with the keeping it at cold temps. I've done this and it will def ferment over time so keep an eye on that. I had mine at 38 degrees and was sitting for a few months and the SG dropped a bit still. This was with nottingham as well.

 

[ericbw]

I don't like Nottingham in cider. I've used S-04 and U.S.-05 and both are good. WLP 775 English Cider is awesome. It makes sulfur, but it dissipates.

If you backsweeten, it does slowly keep going. We had a batch from last summer (fruity berry and apple), and over the winter it got more and more sour.

It will work for a while though, so drink up!

 

[CoSkillet]

I just bottled my first batch of beer, next up is my first cider. I have my juice and will be getting my yeast tomorrow. My wife wants to add a little brown sugar to up the abv and add a little flavor. This may be a silly question but can I use the brown sugar I have in my pantry? I'll also be botteling in 12 Oz bottles after fermenting and was wondering about pasturizing? Complete noob here.

 

[ericbw]

I just bottled my first batch of beer, next up is my first cider. I have my juice and will be getting my yeast tomorrow. My wife wants to add a little brown sugar to up the abv and add a little flavor. This may be a silly question but can I use the brown sugar I have in my pantry? I'll also be botteling in 12 Oz bottles after fermenting and was wondering about pasturizing? Complete noob here.

Yes you can use that brown sugar.

There is a bottle pasteurization sticky on here. You can back sweeten and then pasteurize.

 

[z-bob]

My best cider has been with a non-aggressive wine yeast. Red Star Cotes des Blanc.

Champagne yeast strips it too dry, and ale yeast (S-04) left it too sweet and it tasted weird (I still drank it)

 

[CoSkillet]

Yes you can use that brown sugar.

There is a bottle pasteurization sticky on here. You can back sweeten and then pasteurize.

I'll be making 2 gallons of cider. Should I just use one cup of brown sugar? Also do I need to boil the sugar before adding in water or just dissolve it in the juice?!

 

[ericbw]

I suppose you should boil it in just enough water to dissolve it.

It depends on how much you want to boost the abv. Do you know the gravity of the juice?

 

[Sourz4life]

Also, if you add the brown sugar for fermentation it won't really add any flavor as the yeast will eat it. If your just looking to up the ABV I would just use dextrose although you can definitely use brown sugar.

 

[CoSkillet]

I don't know the gravity of the juice yet. I'm using store bought juice with no perservitives. My wife is wanting the brown sugar for a little added flavor, so when should I add it for that purpose?

 

[Sourz4life]

If you want the actual flavor of brown sugar you'd have to add it at bottling after hitting it with some sulfites so no further fermentation occurs in the bottle. I use potassium sorbate for it. If you don't use any sulfites the remaining yeast in the bottle will eat it up but doing it this way you'll need to carbonate it with c02 or have it as still cider. That's the problem with actually getting a sugar flavor into it without having a keg set up so you can carbonate after back sweetening if you plan on going the carbonated way.

 

[ericbw]

I don't know the gravity of the juice yet. I'm using store bought juice with no perservitives. My wife is wanting the brown sugar for a little added flavor, so when should I add it for that purpose?

You will get flavor from it, because there's molasses in it that won't ferment out. But molasses fermented is a little... nasty. So you don't want to go overboard with it.

Check your gravity, then add enough sugar to raise it to 1.050. Sugar has ~36 points per gallon, so use that as a reference.

(Say it's 1.044, so you need to add 6 points per gallon. So you need 1/4 pound per gallon. Does that make sense?)

If you really want the brown sugar flavor, then add it at bottling. If you are backsweetening and pasteurizing, then I would ferment it dry (down to 1.000 or even less depending on yeast), then backsweeten enough to raise the gravity to 1.010 - 1.015 depending on how sweet you like your cider. (Again, calculate it based on 36 points per gallon.

You can then let it carbonate, then pasteurize. I would then let it condition for a couple of weeks in the fridge. Cider almost always benefits from age.

In my link below, you can see how we make sweet, fruity, bubbly cider, but it requires equipment (Kegging and filtering).

Remember that things that are brown sugar flavored usually also have other spices.

 

[Maylar]

You will get flavor from it, because there's molasses in it that won't ferment out. But molasses fermented is a little... nasty. So you don't want to go overboard with it.

Some people (myself included) really dislike fermented brown sugar. I love it in cookies, but in cider it's yuck.

YMMV

 

[CoSkillet]

First batch of cider ever in the fermentor. I used the Red Star Cotes des Blanc yeast. Used about half the packet. I dissolved 3/4 cup of sugar in a cup of water and added it to my 2 gallons of juice. My juice was kroger brand apple juice with no perservitives, staying between 68-72 degrees right now. Hope this turns out well. Planning on two weeks in primary and at least another two weeks in secondary.

 

[ericbw]

Sounds good!

 

[popgunandy]

I use Lalvin 1118 and don't back sweeten. My cider stays in a primary for two weeks and then I bottle with corn sugar for carbonating.

It produces a bone-dry cider that a lot of people seem to enjoy. I tell folks if it's too dry add a shot of grenadine, but I think most commercial cider is too sweet.

 

[ericbw]

I use Lalvin 1118 and don't back sweeten. My cider stays in a primary for two weeks and then I bottle with corn sugar for carbonating.



It produces a bone-dry cider that a lot of people seem to enjoy. I tell folks if it's too dry add a shot of grenadine, but I think most commercial cider is too sweet.

We've done it like that. It's like super dry champagne with an apple funkiness.

 

[Paps]

between 68-72 degrees right now.

Ferment it cooler than that.
Add yeast nutrient/energiser,...lots of it.

 

[CoSkillet]

I've read instead of yeast nutrient you can just pitch 50% more yeast? Also my homebrew store isn't something I can visit just anytime I want since I have to travel to get to the closest one. Also just starting out trying to figure out my temperature control. Can I wrap a wet towel around it to bring Temps down or what's the best way?

 

[ericbw]

What's your fermenter?

A swamp cooler (tub of cold water with a towel) is your best bet and easy.

 

[CoSkillet]

My fermentor is a Mr beer lbk. I live in a old house turned into a town house so space is limited. I know the higher Temps cause fermentation to happen faster and can cause off flavors but what is ideal temp for cider? I was under the impression 68-72 was ok.

 

[Sourz4life]

I like to do ciders between 64-68 but the temp really just depends on what your yeast needs

 

[ericbw]

I think low 70s is ok, but upper 60s might be cleaner.

 

[CoSkillet]

Will it effect my cider if I don't use the nutrient/energizer? Have to wait till next go round at the lhbs to buy any.

 

[Maylar]

Warm temps without nutrients tend to make rhino farts (sulfur smells) but that's yeast dependent. Keep it as cool as you can and let it go.

 

[CoSkillet]

I've got what looks like fizzing going on but no Krishan or foam

 

[Paps]

Rhino farts are the yeasts way of saying "I'm unhappy"
As brewers we want to know WHY they are unhappy.
Fortunately many have walked down that path and have shared their wisdom with us so that we may learn from their mistakes.
Basically it comes down to one of two reasons (usually...there can allways be an exception)
1 - too warm of fermentation temperature.

Fernebtation creates heat. Inside your brew may even be up to 10-F warmer than the rooms ambient air temp. Usually i have found it to be 5=f warmer but ypur milage may vary.
2 - lack of yeast nutrient/energiser.

Apple juice besides sugar has almost nothing that yeast want to eat. If you were locked into a small room with a pile of sugar on the table you could eat it as a source of carbs but you wouldn't be very happy about it (or healthy) yeast react in the same way. Give them some nutrient for a healthier yeast and therefore better cider.

Somebody above mentioned that going to the homebrew store is a trip for them. A "cheap and easy" alternative would be to buy some raisins (no preservatives at all) and use them as the yeast nutrient. A box of raisins is like 50-80 cents and sold at every grocery store on the planet pretty much.

Hope this helps.

 

[ericbw]

I've got what looks like fizzing going on but no Krishan or foam

It will get there. It's working!

 

[CoSkillet]

I started my cider on 8-6. It has been fermenting between 68-72 degrees until today when I was able to move it to a cooler place in my house. Will this cooler temp affect my cider after 3 days at higher Temps?

 

[ericbw]

I started my cider on 8-6. It has been fermenting between 68-72 degrees until today when I was able to move it to a cooler place in my house. Will this cooler temp affect my cider after 3 days at higher Temps?

IF there is a problem from the warm fermentation, it will happen early on. Getting it cooler won't hurt, as long as you don't get it too cool and make the yeast drop.

I think that the flavors and aromas (esters and phenols) from yeast come during reproduction, which is during the "lag" phase when you think nothing is happening. Within 3-4 days, the yeast's effect on flavor is probably done.

(Side note: in addition to temperature, you can manipulate what the yeast does for you by under-pitching to get more yeast flavors like hefewiezen or Belgian ales; pitch a healthier amount to minimize the yeast's flavor and get a more clean taste.)

I really would expect that any "damage" has been done already. But even 72 degrees in a cider may give you a bad result anyway. It's not ideal, and you know to keep it down lower for next time, but this one could still be ok.

 

[CoSkillet]

After a week in fermentor my cider has a very strong and sharp alcohol smell with no apple aroma at all. Should I throw it out?

 

[Sourz4life]

No, don't throw it out. Its possible its just higher in alcohol content then you expected. The only time I've done this I ended up blending it with some apple juice until it came down to 5.5% abv and it ended up being a great cider.

 

[ericbw]

No, don't throw it out. Its possible its just higher in alcohol content then you expected. The only time I've done this I ended up blending it with some apple juice until it came down to 5.5% abv and it ended up being a great cider.

This is the way to do it. Dilute and backsweeten. Bottle carb then pasteurize OR keg it. But for a beginner, just let it sit for a few more weeks.

 

[Paps]

After a week in fermentor. Should I throw it out?

Nobody on the planet makes a good cider in under a week.
(regardless of some on here whom might make such a ridiculous claim)
IMHO you shouldn't be serving any cider at all under a months age.
Don't throw it out. Bottle it. Let it age. Taste it no sooner than a month from now. Make more now so it can get to aging.

 

[CoSkillet]

I was going to leave it in the fermentor for two more weeks then bottle and age for at least 3 weeks before opening the first one

 

[ericbw]

I was going to leave it in the fermentor for two more weeks then bottle and age for at least 3 weeks before opening the first one

It's going to smell bad at first, then get better over time.

We had some batches with added sugars ferment actively for 2 weeks or more. I mean, constant foaming.

It takes time to age out the harshness. But the 3 weeks conditioning/aging in the bottle will help. So will extended cold conditioning after that (like a week at least).