Hops Direct Service

People who have other things to do with their time and have schedules from which to work care how long products take to get to them.

So is thedigitale the brewer mentioned in your profile?

If he was, would it change the fact that one of the businesses of which I spoke was my law practice? Either way, I happen to know what a contract is.

Would it change the fact that I have successfully run my other business for the past 6 years, consistently keeping both old and new customers happy? Either way, I know the value of good customer relations.

I also am bright enough to see that thedigitale was the only person being targeted with snarkiness when he was not the only person speaking up and questioning the business practices of the vendor in question. The other people were simply ignored. Why? Aren't we too old for cliques?

What was the name of that movie....?

Ya know, the one where this lawyer guy from out east goes down south to defend his cousin, but doesn't quite understand how things work outside of his urban experience?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104952/quotes

One of my favorites. He also happened to be an excellent, if low-brow, attorney. Plus, this was one of the few law-related movies that was actually fairly accurate with regard to procedure.

I must ask, though, what on earth has this got to do with whether a contract is valid, what terms are housed therein, and what makes for good customer service?

Urban or sticks, my friend, law is law. Customer service is customer service. You can't get around it by saying "Hey, y'all, we just move slower out here." If by moving more slowly, you're breaching a contract, you need to either (1) move more quickly or (2) edit your stated policies to fit your actual practice.

No one's asked them to move faster. Just to edit their confirmation email to accurately reflect what they plan to do.

By the way, with regard to my non law-related business, I deal with vendors all over the country, and in fact the world. I've never had an issue like this one... even with the vendors in Texas.

NOTICE:

There are now a few deleted posts in this thread. We do not tolerate personal attacks, insults, name calling, and the like. If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.

I am amused, by the way, by the fact that I can get supplies faster from Scotland than you all can from Washington.

After realizing another person on the boards placed their order the same day as me and got email confirmation 6 days later while I have heard nothing at all is not good service.
Especially having since discovering this information having sent two emails with no reponse and then calling trying to get an answer to determine why with no call back, is NOT good customer service, no matter how swamped and cheap they are and how much I need to plan ahead.
I agree that the service leaves much to be desired.

to me, 1-2 business days and a note on the website stating they are experiencing delays would mean if I ordered on the 15th they probably won't look at the order until the morning of the 16th. If I haven't heard anything from them by Friday maybe I should be calling Monday morning about my order?

(or have Saturday and Sunday become business days?)

Call me stupid, call me an idiot, whatever you want (I could care less). I subscribe to the 6 P's. Proper Planning Prevents P!ss Poor Performance. Brew days just don't "happen" for me, it takes some planning and effort (cleaning, yeast starter, ingredients, propane, etc, etc).

If I'm on a tight schedule and wanting to brew, I'm going to have my ingredients on hand. I'm not going to be planning a brew day with the hopes that my ingredient order gets shipped on time. Why? Because Murphy lurks everywhere.

If you're concerned (and you have every right to be), wait until Monday and get them on the phone. Talk to a real person. I've ordered through them and had a pleasant experience, and it looks as if the majority of the people here have had great experiences with them as well. If there is a problem, I'm sure they will do everything in their power to fix it. For future reference, I'd recommend placing a phone order instead of internet order to get any questions answered.

jtucker101 said:

to me, 1-2 business days and a note on the website stating they are experiencing delays would mean if I ordered on the 15th they probably won't look at the order until the morning of the 16th. If I haven't heard anything from them by Friday maybe I should be calling Monday morning about my order?

(or have Saturday and Sunday become business days?)

Call me stupid, call me an idiot, whatever you want (I could care less). I subscribe to the 6 P's. Proper Planning Prevents P!ss Poor Performance. Brew days just don't "happen" for me, it takes some planning and effort (cleaning, yeast starter, ingredients, propane, etc, etc).

If I'm on a tight schedule and wanting to brew, I'm going to have my ingredients on hand. I'm not going to be planning a brew day with the hopes that my ingredient order gets shipped on time. Why? Because Murphy lurks everywhere.

If you're concerned (and you have every right to be), wait until Monday and get them on the phone. Talk to a real person. I've ordered through them and had a pleasant experience, and it looks as if the majority of the people here have had great experiences with them as well. If there is a problem, I'm sure they will do everything in their power to fix it. For future reference, I'd recommend placing a phone order instead of internet order to get any questions answered.

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Except bhs668 says that he has called and has not received a response. And the original poster says that he placed the order on 9/15, five days ago, not Friday. All he asked was whether he could expect to reach it within a week and a half after he placed the order.

Thing is, the majority of the people here have had what they consider to be great experiences with the company because they're not actually expecting anything beyond cheap prices - they're not expecting an adherence to stated policies, contracts that are followed, or proper communication with the company. For them, cheap prices are the bottom line. Unless that's your only priority, that does not a "great experience" make.

jtucker101 said:

to me, 1-2 business days and a note on the website stating they are experiencing delays would mean if I ordered on the 15th they probably won't look at the order until the morning of the 16th. If I haven't heard anything from them by Friday maybe I should be calling Monday morning about my order?

(or have Saturday and Sunday become business days?)

Call me stupid, call me an idiot, whatever you want (I could care less). I subscribe to the 6 P's. Proper Planning Prevents P!ss Poor Performance. Brew days just don't "happen" for me, it takes some planning and effort (cleaning, yeast starter, ingredients, propane, etc, etc).

If I'm on a tight schedule and wanting to brew, I'm going to have my ingredients on hand. I'm not going to be planning a brew day with the hopes that my ingredient order gets shipped on time. Why? Because Murphy lurks everywhere.

If you're concerned (and you have every right to be), wait until Monday and get them on the phone. Talk to a real person. I've ordered through them and had a pleasant experience, and it looks as if the majority of the people here have had great experiences with them as well. If there is a problem, I'm sure they will do everything in their power to fix it. For future reference, I'd recommend placing a phone order instead of internet order to get any questions answered.

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You have a valid point about the planning, but that's exactly what I'm trying to do and why I am concerned. I generally don't consider 10 days in the future being poor planning. However, I do have a tight schedule, and the whole point of this thread was to figure out if I should cancel my order and get my supplies elsewhere, in order to brew when I want.

Hops Direct is one of very few (two, AFAIK) farms that sell hops directly to homebrewers all over the US. They are a reputable company and have provided prompt service and great prices in the past. Their recent price cut prompted an unexpected spike in demand that they were unable to manage well. They did make an effort to notify potential customers of a possible delay, but they didn't catch all instances of their stated service on the website. While a few of you are frustrated, isn't it reasonable to give 'em a break in this case?

I'd hate to see these guys stop selling to individuals over a few negative incidents during what appears to be an isolated period of high demand.

No, I'm not affiliated with the company or farm in any way.

If it was me and I had to have the hops, I would probably buy the hops I need for that brew day somewhere else but not cancel my order because the price is really good and I can never have too many hops on hand. I don't know how far you are from Washington, but my order was shipped on a Wednesday and I received it the following Wednesday. So 3 days to pack and ship and a week in transit to Michigan.

Yuri_Rage said:

Hops Direct is one of very few (two, AFAIK) farms that sell hops directly to homebrewers all over the US. They are a reputable company and have provided prompt service and great prices in the past. Their recent price cut prompted an unexpected spike in demand that they were unable to manage well. They did make an effort to notify potential customers of a possible delay, but they didn't catch all instances of their stated service on the website. While a few of you are frustrated, isn't it reasonable to give 'em a break in this case?

I'd hate to see these guys stop selling to individuals over a few negative incidents during what appears to be an isolated period of high demand.

No, I'm not affiliated with the company or farm in any way.

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I also hope they don't stop selling to individuals, and I don't even brew. I'm not hoping anything negative happens to them over this. What should happen is that they recognize the error and work on managing things more efficiently. A good company will do that. A good company will say, "Holy crow, did we mess that up and not plan properly! How can we fix this for next time?!"

A good company might also "make whole" the customers who have been harmed in any way they can. Their poor planning should not simply be accepted just because people like them. I get it. They're generally a good company. Hooray for them. But when they falter, it can only be to their benefit to have them take notice and improve. Acceptance of the unacceptable leads only to poorer and poorer customer service.

What no one seems to recognize, though, is that this didn't need to turn into a riot. Original poster simply asked, "Hey, is this delay normal? Should I worry? Should I get my hops somewhere else, or am I safe waiting for these?"

I've yet to see anyone answer those questions.

Instead, everyone went looney tunes, defending the indefensible. No one actually gave reasonable responses, even if the response would be, "Hey, yeah, those guys rock but are really overloaded. If you're on a time constraint, buy elsewhere for now and use this place for your surplus hops when you're not under the gun."

jrkettle said:

If it was me and I had to have the hops, I would probably buy the hops I need for that brew day somewhere else but not cancel my order because the price is really good and I can never have too many hops on hand. I don't know how far you are from Washington, but my order was shipped on a Wednesday and I received it the following Wednesday. So 3 days to pack and ship and a week in transit to Michigan.

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Except this guy. THIS guy gave a real answer. Finally!

Yuri_Rage said:

Hops Direct is one of very few (two, AFAIK) farms that sell hops directly to homebrewers all over the US. They are a reputable company and have provided prompt service and great prices in the past. Their recent price cut prompted an unexpected spike in demand that they were unable to manage well. They did make an effort to notify potential customers of a possible delay, but they didn't catch all instances of their stated service on the website. While a few of you are frustrated, isn't it reasonable to give 'em a break in this case?

I'd hate to see these guys stop selling to individuals over a few negative incidents during what appears to be an isolated period of high demand.

No, I'm not affiliated with the company or farm in any way.

Click to expand...

The fact that they are busy means that they need to better set expectations. In my opinion, a "slightly longer" lead time means a day or two. I placed the order on the 15th. They are now four days late on the promised shipping quote, and three days late on actually shipping the order, or providing an updated schedule.

While I am currently a home brewer, I may at some point decide to go pro. If this happened to me as a pro brewer, it would mean a loss of time, a loss of revenue, and would be damaging to my business. Would that still be ok? Should we still give them a break if it costs money to do so?

Airlines get busy around the holidays, so by the "cheap prices mean delayed service is ok" theory, would it be ok if you booked a flight before Christmas, and the airline said "Sorry, we got busy, but it was cheap and we'll have you at your destination by the 27th? Seems to me that a delay there would probably make people upset.

yes, 9/15 was 5 days ago, but not BUSINESS DAYS. our homebrew club has called no less than 4 times in the past week, and never had to leave a message (we placed a large combined order from them). email responses have been pretty timely, too. why you aren't receiving the same type of service doesn't make sense. obviously, from all the positive feedback about them, you are experiencing something out-of-the-ordinary.

thedigitale, I'd be calling monday morning just to be on the safe side. I don't trust the internet orders and would rather order by phone anyway (but that's just me....Would you trust something that was invented by Al Gore?)

bhs668, I don't know what to tell you, other than keep trying. If you truly are experiencing those types of problems and have some sort of order number form your email, I'd be willing to bet that hopsdirect will do everything in their power to correct the situation and make sure you are 100% satisfied.

sometimes things fall through the cracks, and sometimes companies only know there is a problem when the receive complaints. I'd say to give them the benefit of the doubt for now, and if they don't come through for you let us all know.

jtucker101 said:

yes, 9/15 was 5 days ago, but not BUSINESS DAYS. our homebrew club has called no less than 4 times in the past week, and never had to leave a message (we placed a large combined order from them). email responses have been pretty timely, too. why you aren't receiving the same type of service doesn't make sense. obviously, from all the positive feedback about them, you are experiencing something out-of-the-ordinary.

*****

sometimes things fall through the cracks, and sometimes companies only know there is a problem when the receive complaints. I'd say to give them the benefit of the doubt for now, and if they don't come through for you let us all know.

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I know 9/15 wasn't five "business days" ago. Someone, though, talked about an order being placed on a Friday so you can't expect a response over the weekend. I was pointing out that the order was not placed on Friday, it was placed, apparently, on Tuesday.

That said, as a business owner, if I'm swamped and need to get things done, I work weekends too. I'll work 24 hours straight if I have to. Hell, I pulled a 36-hour stint to make a deadline in January. If you do something like lower your prices, you must know it's a pretty good bet you'll be swamped for orders. It's your job to accommodate for it, whether that means working longer hours or hiring temp help.

OR... stop sending the rote email saying "we'll get to you in 1-2 days."

You're right, though, the inconsistent service doesn't make sense. And it's not right. In fact, it's almost worse than if they were ignoring everyone equally.

Yuri_Rage said:

Hops Direct is one of very few (two, AFAIK) farms that sell hops directly to homebrewers all over the US. They are a reputable company and have provided prompt service and great prices in the past. Their recent price cut prompted an unexpected spike in demand that they were unable to manage well. They did make an effort to notify potential customers of a possible delay, but they didn't catch all instances of their stated service on the website. While a few of you are frustrated, isn't it reasonable to give 'em a break in this case?

I'd hate to see these guys stop selling to individuals over a few negative incidents during what appears to be an isolated period of high demand.

No, I'm not affiliated with the company or farm in any way.

Click to expand...

I was going to post something similar. Thanks for saving me the trouble.

I'm amazed that they will even deal with us at this price level.

Inconvenient? Yeah, a little. A tremendous price saving to us minion home brewers? Definitely. They supply breweries. I consider the fact that they will deal in such small quantities as a sservice to beer lovers.

I will happily eat up the inconvenience and poop it out as rainbows of gratitude that they even took the time to deal with me.

LarissaEsq said:

Except this guy. THIS guy gave a real answer. Finally!

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Yeah, isn't it amazing how you ask a simple question and everyone goes into defense/attack mode???

Yuri_Rage said:

Hops Direct is one of very few (two, AFAIK) farms that sell hops directly to homebrewers all over the US. They are a reputable company and have provided prompt service and great prices in the past. Their recent price cut prompted an unexpected spike in demand that they were unable to manage well. They did make an effort to notify potential customers of a possible delay, but they didn't catch all instances of their stated service on the website. While a few of you are frustrated, isn't it reasonable to give 'em a break in this case?

I'd hate to see these guys stop selling to individuals over a few negative incidents during what appears to be an isolated period of high demand.

No, I'm not affiliated with the company or farm in any way.

Click to expand...

Well put, Yuri.

I've ordered from them many times before and it didn't take me long to figure out that I shouldn't place an order from them if I'm in a hurry for something. I'd guess that commercial orders take precedence over individual orders and I'm ok with that.

Ground shipping from WA to OH alone takes 1 week. I called the first couple of times to get a shipping quote but now I don't even worry about it because, like Evan! said, I have a pretty good idea how much it's going to cost me to get my hops.

They present an incredible value to home brewers if you ask me. If you're ticked off at them, give them a call and let them know. I'm sure that they'll make it right. Even if they don't - I wouldn't let one bad experience sour you on them. Buying hops for ~$10/lb from them vs. $2-$4/oz from a lhbs is a no brainer.

I guess that's the age of the Internet though. Give me what I want, and give it to me yesterday.

Laughing_Gnome_Invisible said:

I was going to post something similar. Thanks for saving me the trouble.

I'm amazed that they will even deal with us at this price level.

Inconvenient? Yeah, a little. A tremendous price saving to us minion home brewers? Definitely. They supply breweries. I consider the fact that they will deal in such small quantities as a sservice to beer lovers.

I will happily eat up the inconvenience and poop it out as rainbows of gratitude that they even took the time to deal with me.

Click to expand...

You can poop out whatever you'd like. Bottom line is if they are going to deal with me, they should do so in a professional manner and meet their own service expectations. If this is the service I can expect from the company, then if I do go pro, I'll bear this in mind, and not bother with them.

I don't understand how it is that most of you are missing the point here. Let's try to clarify:

I don't care how low the price is if I don't have what I need, when I need it.

I don't care if they get busy, as long as they ACCURATELY reflect the delay in ALL communications.

If you're going to have an online store and deal with home brewers, there should be no reason to call. There should be no difference in the way they treat you.

thedigitale said:

The fact that they are busy means that they need to better set expectations. In my opinion, a "slightly longer" lead time means a day or two. I placed the order on the 15th. They are now four days late on the promised shipping quote, and three days late on actually shipping the order, or providing an updated schedule.

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Then you misinterpreted their statement. They probably should have quantified "slightly longer" so you wouldn't have to guess.

thedigitale said:

While I am currently a home brewer, I may at some point decide to go pro. If this happened to me as a pro brewer, it would mean a loss of time, a loss of revenue, and would be damaging to my business. Would that still be ok? Should we still give them a break if it costs money to do so?

Click to expand...

It wouldn't happen because as a pro brewer, you wouldn't be ordering a small quantity of hops with less than a week's lead time.

thedigitale said:

Airlines get busy around the holidays, so by the "cheap prices mean delayed service is ok" theory, would it be ok if you booked a flight before Christmas, and the airline said "Sorry, we got busy, but it was cheap and we'll have you at your destination by the 27th? Seems to me that a delay there would probably make people upset.

Click to expand...

Poor analogy. Airline service becomes absolutely abysmal during those times of the year.

The bottom line:
Ok, thedigitale, we get it. You're unhappy. You've been given quite a bit of information about the company including the actual reason that the service does not meet your expectations. It's time for you to move on and place your order with someone else.

ohiobrewtus said:

I guess that's the age of the Internet though. Give me what I want, and give it to me yesterday.

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This has nothing to do with the internet. How about this:

GIVE ME WHAT I WANT WHEN YOU SAY YOU WILL!

thedigitale said:

This has nothing to do with the internet. How about this:

GIVE ME WHAT I WANT WHEN YOU SAY YOU WILL!

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No problem with that. Bottom line, if they can post a change to policy on the site, they can change a simple automated email.

That being said, I just ordered 11 pounds from them. They've always been there for me, but I seem to stock pile hops for some reason so not in any hurry......

Yuri_Rage said:

It wouldn't happen because as a pro brewer, you wouldn't be ordering a small quantity of hops with less than a week's lead time.

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You've never run a business. A small brewpub doesn't use a whole lot more hops for a brew than I do, and there are times when something happens and you need something right away. In addition, who's talking about less than a week lead time? I placed an order 10 days in advance and wasn't given a shipping option. (Although overnight shipping wouldn't matter much if it took 2 weeks to get them out as some have reported).

It appears that no one here can read (or doesn't bother), as all I see are posts that tout the price, or say that I ordered with under a week's lead time.

Laughing_Gnome_Invisible said:

I was going to post something similar. Thanks for saving me the trouble.

I'm amazed that they will even deal with us at this price level.

Inconvenient? Yeah, a little. A tremendous price saving to us minion home brewers? Definitely. They supply breweries. I consider the fact that they will deal in such small quantities as a sservice to beer lovers.

I will happily eat up the inconvenience and poop it out as rainbows of gratitude that they even took the time to deal with me.

Click to expand...

You really have that low an opinion of your own self-worth? Really? That's so... sad.

As for me, I'll stick to my own business practices, wherein a corporate client handing over a $20,000 retainer is no more important or attention-worthy than the guy who's paying me $1500 to handle his traffic ticket. They know and appreciate this.

My clients would never stand for disparate treatment, and neither should we.

Once you choose to do business with someone, no matter how large or small the transaction, you are taking on the obligation to complete the transaction properly and equitably. From what many of you have said, this shop apparently does not adhere to those standards, and if that's the case, I find them to be unethical.

thedigitale said:

I don't understand how it is that most of you are missing the point here.

Click to expand...

thedigitale said:

It appears that no one here can read.

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When you disagree with nearly everyone else who has posted, perhaps it's time to walk away.

Allow me to clarify the reason that this thread was closed. I DID NOT end the discussion because I had a differing point of view. I closed it because the OP had been answered, and the level of agitation and general negative tone was escalating.