MillerCoors Craft Beer Expansion...Thoughts?

I searched for this, but I will be honest with you, I think I am probably one of the worst "searchers" when it comes to this site - so please forgive me if this has been posted already:

http://news.draftmag.com/2010/08/13/millercoors-invests-in-craft-launches-new-beer-arm/

meh, it's all about the market share for them. Their beer won't have half the soul that the little guys will have.

Check out Beer Wars.

I don't disagree with that in the least bit, but people WILL buy it. Is it a good thing for the "industry" as a whole that people will become more exposed "craft beers" (because, let's be honest - if they make it, it's going to be on the shelves right next to all the other Shock Tops etc), or is it a bad thing for the smaller craft brewers that are having their market penetrated harder now than any time in recent history by the "big boys" trying to dial in on "craft beer drinkers?" I will say this much, if I was a small craft brewer I would be pretty concerned.

Bmorebrew said:

Check out Beer Wars.

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Exactly

Bmorebrew said:

Check out Beer Wars.

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I've seen it. That was kind of my point. This expansion into this market has probably got a lot of craft brewers a little bummed.

If it acts as a gateway and gets more people into better beer, that'll be a good thing. I don't think it's going to take too many microbrew customers away from the true craft brewers, but might get a few BMC drinkers to think that if Miller does it, it must be ok stuff.

I think for the most part people will buy it INSTEAD of their usual BMC. Guys like us/me will try it when its free. The people who do buy instead of their usual might eventually graduate to smaller breweries and more styles. So I would say its good for the little guys(the ones who are good at what they do).

I highly doubt they'll brew any stouts, porters, belgians...to start they'll most likely stick with more transition friendly brews...i would think.

Will be a good thing overall, I think. The beer itself probably won't be anything special, but you never know - and it will almost certainly be better than what they make now. A lot of craft beer drinkers will diss anything BMC makes as a matter of course, no matter what it tastes like. BMC drinkers may try some beer out of their normal comfort zone, and that would be cool.

well to be honest i think that this will introduce more people onto craft brewers. because the people that already buy craft brews sure as hell arent going to switch to millers because they make a craft brew. but what it will do is have people try craft brews realize they like it and then let them find out about better craft brews from the little guys.

so the existing customers are going to stay and new ones will come in to try better beer.

but now people will see the prices from millers and be like well why would i pay for this craft brew when this craft brew is cheaper. but who knows how it will turn out.

They keynote speaker at this years NHC put it very well. I forget his name, but he is the owner and head brewer of Summit. He said something like "its really flattering that the big guys [Bud, miller etc] want to come and play in the sandbox we built".

If HopHound and Michelob DunkelWeisse are the best they can do I wouldn't be shaking in my boots. I don't have as much animosity for MillerCoors like AB, but Blue Moon (which I never liked) was gateway into craft beer for many college buds so I think in the end it will be good for us bad for them. I find it unlikely that they will pull many of us away, while easing their current customers into the wider world of beer. Bad move big guys. Maybe in other countries where they already have a better selection it will pull in new customers, but it's hard to imagine that if the beer isn't improved. The only way this could work is if they manage to obfuscate the fact it's a BMC beer AND make beer good enough to challenge the discerning beer drinker. Anyone here think that's likely?

Edcculus said:

They keynote speaker at this years NHC put it very well. I forget his name, but he is the owner and head brewer of Summit. He said something like "its really flattering that the big guys [Bud, miller etc] want to come and play in the sandbox we built".

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Mark Stutrud

I think BMC is awful. I go out of my way to NOT buy any of it. This will have 0 effect on me.

It may however, as stated by others be a good (expanding peoples tastes) or bad (squeezing customers out of the craft brew market or making cheap "craft beer" that is God awful, potentially turning back the "straying sheep from the flock." while hurting the little guys at the same time.) for the craft breweries.

I think there is a good chance of quality beer. It's not a Miller Craft series or anything like that. It's not like those brewers don't know how to brew. They're very skilled at their trade. I guarantee the brewers could put out anything rivaling or surpassing craft breweries given the go ahead from corporate, but it's just not what they're there to do. Most of the public won't realize it's MillerCoors with the whole Tenth and Blake Beer Company front. People who like craft beer will see a new "brewery" on the shelf, try it and say, "oh man, I got this new beer from a Brewery called Tenth and Blake. It's pretty good". Not everyone who drinks craft beer is as obsessed with it as we all are.

It's a toss up I suppose on how it will be for the little guy. Could bring new customers their way, could steal some sales. I think it's a matter of timing. Will it drive customers towards other craft breweries before it steals too much business from them to hurt them (if it indeed doesn't just flop).

I have a pretty small beer selection in my town and I can be pretty confident that these beers will show up in my stores because of the big names and am happy to try them. I need some day to day variety away from SNPA and SN Torpedo when I'm out of homebrew.

IrregularPulse said:

I think there is a good chance of quality beer. It's not a Miller Craft series or anything like that. It's not like those brewers don't know how to brew. They're very skilled at their trade.

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While your are right that they have the equipment and know how (brewing fast and standardized beer may make them more skilled at industrial plant management than brewing good beer), I cannot imagine the bean counters will let them do it right. Look at the time and ingredients used by many small breweries. When you are the biggest fish in the pond BY FAR why would you gamble your money and breweries time on something like this?

IrregularPulse said:

Most of the public won't realize it's MillerCoors with the whole Tenth and Blake Beer Company front. People who like craft beer will see a new "brewery" on the shelf,

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This was exactly my thought. Unless they throw their name Miller on it big and bold most of the public will not know it's even a Miller beer. They will just dismiss it as another one of those craft beers they are too afraid to try. Ask random people on the street who makes Blue Moon and I would bet most have no clue it's not even actually from Belgium. The only business I see them getting is those that do not know that Tenth and Blake is actually Miller. In which case I'll bet these people like it, until they find out it's made by BMC, then they will hate it. Which is ridiculous.

Am I the only one to admit that I'll probably try whatever they make, just to compare at the least?

I will def try it. I'm no blind hater. I tried several beers (like HopHound and some apricot thing) from Bud that I had never tried before at the recent Top of Hops. I'll always give someone the benefit of the doubt. They just sucked... bad.

i think that the big guys are seeing the expanding craft brew market. beer is the new wine after all and the big guys know their cheap beer sucks. they just want a bigger piece of the pie.

HiGravShawn said:

I will def try it. I'm no blind hater. I tried several beers (like HopHound and some apricot thing) from Bud that I had never tried before at the recent Top of Hops. I'll always give someone the benefit of the doubt. They just sucked... bad.

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Sam C. (from DFH) talked about this very thing in Beer Wars. This is the "discrediting" thing that BMC likes to do.(It has been awhile since I have seen it and am not 100% sure on the prices I listed but I feel I am close enough for this discussion.)
I believe he sites his Punkin beer in the movie and it costs him $6 per 6 pack to make so he sells them for $7. Bud comes out with a Pumpkin beer that is $4 a 6er and it tastes gawd awful. Customer feeling a bit adventurous and in the mood for some holiday brew, decides to buy the 6er of holiday beer.
The customer looks over the selection of Pumpkin beers and goes with a $4 6er as that is not to expensive but not cheap by any stretch; takes it home, chills it, cracks it open, tastes and spits the liquid into the sink because it is so horrible. This person is NOT likely to run to the store and drop another $8 on a different pumpkin beer, they will more than likely NEVER buy one again and tell everyone else how bad it was.

So who does that hurt? not the mighty BMC, they knew what they were doing all along! This is going to be a slippery slope and I hope they do make a decent beer at Tenth and Blake but I am not going to pay any of my hard earned cash for it. I would not be opposed to trying some, just buying it.

time will tell...

The more I have thought about this, the more I think this will have almost zero effect on the craft brew market, other than maybe BBC or Sierra Nevada, maybe Yuengling. Mostly the larger craft brewers. MillersCoors might steal some of these customers away because they are competing in the mainstream, mass appeal beer category with BMC either on a national or regional level. However, the smaller craft brewers likely won't be impacted. Let's face it, most of the beer drinking public (especially BMC drinkers) are completely oblivious to the vast majority of the breweries that a lot of us talk about on here. Think about the beers you really enjoy. How many of them are either produced relatively near where you live, or are something you've had to go through some effort to find? The point being, the average BMC drinker doesn't go out of his way now to find a craft brew, and he won't be any more likely to do it once MillerCoors starts producing their own "craft" beers. Additionally, the educated beer consumer isn't likely to be swayed by a MillerCoors "craft" beer unless it actually delivers on flavor. If history tells us anything, this is more likely a marketing ploy, and possibly a tax dodge. BMC's #1 way to combat competition and gain marketshare over the last 50+ years has always been marketing.

JJL said:

The more I have thought about this, the more I think this will have almost zero effect on the craft brew market, other than maybe BBC or Sierra Nevada, maybe Yuengling.

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I agree, I don't think it will do anything negative. It's sort of like Frito-Lay
trying to lure gourmets away from real food with a new line of [Rachel Ray,
Mario Batali, Emeril..or your choice] Rice-a-Roni. All the big brewers can
really do is put their product into more markets, reaching more of the same
type of customer, one or two of which might say, "Hey, this is interesting,
I wonder what else is out there?", thus maybe creating a new beer connoisseur.
Let's put it this way: are any of you real beer lovers going to start
drinking their stuff and stop going after what you really like just because
BMC puts something out there? You would only do so if something by
BMC is actually good (and it sometimes is).

Ray

Zamial said:

...I hope they do make a decent beer at Tenth and Blake but I am not going to pay any of my hard earned cash for it. I would not be opposed to trying some, just buying it.

time will tell...

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I will buy a pint at a time as it's offered in my local wings and beer joint, but I wouldn't buy a whole 6 pack until I decided it's good. But I will also not write it off without trying. A beer snob that won't try a beer because of branding is just as much a ****** as someone who won't try a beer for color.

It certainly has the opportunity to steal people away from craft beer.

I have a friend who likes trying new things. A few times we went to the local beer store, got a few six packs and tried some of each and had a great time. But he's not into the 'movement' or whatever you want to call what we are: he doesn't give a crap where it comes from. He likes Blue Moon and is just as willing to buy a sixer of their seasonal as he is to get something from DFH. So in many ways the faux craft movement has gotten him into better beer, but he's also not going to buy only what we consider 'real' craft beer.

(and actually, he is the type of person who cares a lot about the company producing what he buys, so I'm sure enough 'you know this is Coors right?' and he'd stop, but while a useful case study he's also an outlier in that respect)

IrregularPulse said:

I will buy a pint at a time as it's offered in my local wings and beer joint, but I wouldn't buy a whole 6 pack until I decided it's good. But I will also not write it off without trying. A beer snob that won't try a beer because of branding is just as much a ****** as someone who won't try a beer for color.

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I am not opposed to trying it, often times the grocery store will be giving out samples of things. I tried Bluemoon's honeymoon this way. I bought a bottle of wine this way as well.
At family/friends gatherings people will bring different beers and I have tried many different beers this way as well.
This still does not include tastings, or samples from my local bar.

I would be silly to refuse an ice cold BMC offered to me, especially if I have not tried it before but as for walking in and paying for a BMC product, well that is not for me. I do not like what they stand for, their business practices or anything else about them and will not give them any of my money willing.

Zamial said:

I believe he sites his Punkin beer in the movie and it costs him $6 per 6 pack to make so he sells them for $7.

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I WISH I could get a 6 pack of Punkin for $7 bucks.

Anyway, I try to avoid all beer from SABMiller and AB InBev because quite frankly supporting them keeps craft brewers beers off the shelf. It's not about snobbery, there's actually a few beer from both companies I like (Hoegaarden for instance), but it's no good to make the little guys suffer.

I think this could be somewhat of a good thing for smaller craft breweries. Not a whole lot of the craft drinkers will be converting over to Tenth and Blake beers, but a lot of eyes of the masses will be opened. This could lead down the same path that a lot of us have walked:

"Wow, this beer is really good! What style is this? Are there other beers like this? There are? I need to find the best beers in the style!"

Bam. Smaller crafts like Dogfish, Stone, Great Lakes, etc. will be exposed to larger portion of the masses who otherwise would never have noticed.

munklunk said:

I think this could be somewhat of a good thing for smaller craft breweries. Not a whole lot of the craft drinkers will be converting over to Tenth and Blake beers, but a lot of eyes of the masses will be opened. This could lead down the same path that a lot of us have walked:

"Wow, this beer is really good! What style is this? Are there other beers like this? There are? I need to find the best beers in the style!"

Bam. Smaller crafts like Dogfish, Stone, Great Lakes, etc. will be exposed to larger portion of the masses who otherwise would never have noticed.

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This makes sense, if the person actually likes the BMC craft brew they will branch off. It loses BMC money.

I'm not gonna lie, I accidentally bought a 'Shock top' once. I was sorely dissappointed to see the little tiny michelob logo on it after I got home. But this definitely reminds me of how AB was bought recently by some foreign company and almost immediately released Bud light Golden wheat afterwards. It's ok, but a sorry excuse for a hefeweizen. Shiner hefeweizen is much better for a mainstream-esque hefe. (used to get shiner dirt cheap back when I lived in Houston)
But it's whatever. I don't mind them trying their hand at "craft" beers, the people who enjoy good beer will still have their good beer. I just don't want someone asking me "Hey! have you tried this new craft beer(from miller)?! It's so great and flavorful and bla bla bla!" Same as I'll be slightly annoyed once "The girl with the dragon tattoo" is released in american theatres after hollywood remakes it with daniel craig and people go around gushing about it.

I can see that scenario happening but the opposite could happen too - the typical light beer drinker might find that they really have a taste for pumpkin flavored beer (or just something different than light beer) and keep spreading out. Personally I think they will just feed off their own market base.

Another possibility is that certain ingredients may experience increased production to appease percieved demand which may lower the price.

Maybe they will be popular enough that we see clone recipes for Budweiser Pumpkin Clamato Lime Light. yummmmm making my mouth water ......in a regurgitory sorta way.

This could go one of two ways. It could infringe on the market of some craft breweries simply due to the fact that large brewers such as this can brew much higher quantities therefore deliver a cheaper product. They also already have distribution all over the U.S. so their brews will get face time in any supermarket as opposed to craft brews mainly being available only at specialty alcohol stores.

On the other hand, this could get your average Joe who loves Bud, Coors and Miller interested in the finer side of beer and gradually bring them to the smaller craft breweries. Only time will tell.

The ONLY bad thing about this is we become much less cool and special once "the masses" start drinking decent beer.

Is this really an expansion? It looks to me more like a reconsolidation of Miller and Coors pre-existing "craft" lines. If they can make good beer, I'll drink it. If not, I won't.

The only side I'll take in this Beer-Wars-Good-Burger nonsense is my own. In the words of Ivan Drago, "I fight for me! FOR ME!!!!" Right now I own stock in Molson Coors (NYSE: TAP), Sam Adams (NYSE: SAM), and the Craft Brewers Alliance (NASDAQ: HOOK). I'm a regular Lando Calrissian. I cut a deal with the evil empire. They make money? I make money.

Good for Coors for not ignoring the only expanding section of our current beer market. Let's see what they do with it.

billvon said:

- and it will almost certainly be better than what they make now.

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There is a certainty! Of course, that is a pretty low bar to clear.
This reminds me of Plank Road Brewery. You don't even have to take this stuff off the shelf to see it is the SOS repackaged. Screw tops, some cool rebel sorta name on the label.
I'm not a hater, but I am not a sucker, either. Plenty of them around for the mega brewers, though.