Hello everyone. I made a yeast starter about 24 hours ago, It’s from a Brewers Best Witbier kit SafAle WB06. I used one cup of dme, 2 cups of water and boiled it 5-10 minutes. Cooled to about 72-74f and pitched the yeast. It’s been on the stirrer but I had a look and it doesn’t look bubbly or active at all. The color is good and it smells good. Should I see some activity? By the way everthing was sanitized.
Yeast starter
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You have it on a stir plate? Don't those knock out the carbon dioxide so one observes little (if any) bubbling?
Off topic, I think you used a little too much DME for 2 cups of water. I don't usually let my yeast starters go for a full day, so maybe they need that much, I don't know.
Off topic, I think you used a little too much DME for 2 cups of water. I don't usually let my yeast starters go for a full day, so maybe they need that much, I don't know.
Why would you boil it for that long? All it needs it to be brought to a boil to assure that all the bacteria is killed so it doesn't interfere with the yeast and get you bad tasting beer.
On a stir plate you shouldn't see any bubbles. Let it run 24 hours, take it off the stir plate so the activity stops and the yeast can settle. You should see a layer of yeast in the bottom after a while. You can chill it to get more yeast settled, then decant most of the liquid and pitch what is left or just pitch the whole thing without chilling.
Two things. First, it's dry yeast; why a starter? They're supposed to be pitched directly.
Second, did you use a little Fermcap-S to prevent boilover when you were boiling the DME? That will cut down any krausen to a minimum. I have a starter going right now that I pitched into last night at 10:30pm, and no evidence it's taken off yet, 8 1/2 hours later. But by noon today I'll expect some tenous bubbles on the surface, a small ring at the edge of the flask, and a few swirling around the vortex.
Second, did you use a little Fermcap-S to prevent boilover when you were boiling the DME? That will cut down any krausen to a minimum. I have a starter going right now that I pitched into last night at 10:30pm, and no evidence it's taken off yet, 8 1/2 hours later. But by noon today I'll expect some tenous bubbles on the surface, a small ring at the edge of the flask, and a few swirling around the vortex.
Where did you get that ratio from? It's way too high.
For reference, 1 cup of DME is around 1/3 of a pound (~150 grams).
It's actual weight (mass) depends on how tightly it's packed and moisture content.
Then by boiling it for 5-10 minutes, you probably boiled off 1/2 to 1 cup.
That made the wort even stronger.
Aside from dry yeast not needing a starter, with a few exceptions, you dumped it into a very high gravity wort. That's not going to make it better.
For yeast starters a wort gravity 1.037-1.040 is recommended, sometimes lower, rarely higher.
That's a DME:water ratio of 1:10, by weight. Use a scale to measure your DME amount.
For example:
- To make a 1 liter starter use 100 grams of DME and 1 liter of water (1000 grams). That's 1:10.
- Adding one drop of Fermcap-S will prevent boil overs and heavy foaming during the boil, and later, foaming over during yeast propagation.
- Bring to a boil.
- Then boil slowly (simmer) for 1-2 minutes with a sanitized lid on the pot, so the whole vessel is steamed up and sanitized inside. Make sure it doesn't boil over (keep checking).
- Let cool in a tub or sink with cold water. Keep the lid on.
- Pour your wort in a well sanitized starter vessel and add your liquid yeast.
- If you want to make a starter for dry yeast, you'd need at least 1 liter of starter wort for a 11 grams sachet of (dry) yeast. 2 liters is better.
If you were to make a starter from dry yeast, plug 66 billion cells (its minimum cell count) into the calculator with a manufactured/packaged date of today. It's likely to contain many more viable cells, as much as double or triple. Dry yeast, if kept in fridge or freezer, keeps her original viable cell count pretty much throughout its best by or expiration date.
Thanks for the input. I followed a instructional on YouTube for this yeast starter. There is so much information out there and much of it is conflicting. My starter does look a bit concentrated so the proportions are dme heavy. One thing I remember about all the info I gathered about yeast starters was to ALWAYS use a starter. I just bought a stir plate and flask too and was anxious to brew a batch. So given the fact that I cant change what I’ve done do I go ahead and use it? Maybe save half for another day? Or do I throw the crap away and get a new yeast pack? Thanks again. This forum is a great resource!
My feeling is if you pitch it, you'll get beer.
Here's a typical way to do a starter, with LIQUID yeast: add 100 grams of DME to 1 liter of water. Boil for 5 minutes or so. Chill to the temp of the yeast (which you have set out ahead of time to warm up). Pitch the yeast into the starter, put on stir plate.
If your batch is 5 gallons, I'd pitch your whole starter thing in it. Do you see any foaming or action in your starter flask?
You can save a little bit out (10 ml) and make a new (fresh) starter from that for another brew.
After your batch is finished, you can save some (or all) of the yeast cake for a one or more next batches too. Fermenting beer makes more yeast, about 3-5 times of what you pitched!
Harvested yeast slurries should be stored in the fridge. Mason jars are good containers for that. Keep it stored under some of the beer it came from.
Utter sanitation is needed, so you don't get infections at some later point.
Yup, there is a lot of bad and conflicting information out there. Never go by a single source, even if you found it here on HBT, unless you know his or her reputation. Even then, there are many takes on brewing processes.
For liquid yeasts, always, yes!
I do rehydrate my dry yeast following the manufactures guidence. 
When I used dry yeast, I always did, and only had one issue, most likely unrelated to re-hydration, but more to do with insufficient oxygenation of a 1.092 Old Ale.I do rehydrate my dry yeast following the manufactures guidence.
Now recently, re-hydration is claimed to be unnecessary, even unwanted, by the manufacturer (Fermentis/Safale). Not sure why, possibly to make it appear easier to use?
I agree I'm just used to doing it so never had it hurt anything.
Yeast by Chris White and Jamil Zainasheff, although published in 2010, recommends proper yeast rehydration in water, over directly sprinkling over wort. I remain in that camp until I see hard evidence against it.
I'm going to the AHA boot camp in Asheville in March, attending the Yeast workshop (and hops one).
Chris White is doing the yeast workshop; I have several questions I'm going to try to get him to address, including:
1. Rehydration of dry yeast, and
2. Oxygenating wort into which dry yeast is sprinkled. There is a thread on here that says it's not necessary to oxygenate the wort. That doesn't make sense to me, but I want to hear what he has to say about it. I've read his book about 4 times, he seems to know what he's about.
davidabcd
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I make a lot of 9-12% ABVs and have only ever used dry yeast. Each time I hit my FG.
I use the appropriate style of yeast and sprinkle it on. I use two packs but I can't prove whether that is even necessary. Sometimes I let the yeast sit on top and sometimes not before stirring it in--no difference in FG.
I don't know if it's fermenting in a glass carboy or using a big starter that does it, but with the way I do it, I haven't ever come close to needing a blow-off tube either. I like that benefit.
I do like the idea of liquid yeast for it's variety but have been perfectly happy with the dry yeast's results.
I use the appropriate style of yeast and sprinkle it on. I use two packs but I can't prove whether that is even necessary. Sometimes I let the yeast sit on top and sometimes not before stirring it in--no difference in FG.
I don't know if it's fermenting in a glass carboy or using a big starter that does it, but with the way I do it, I haven't ever come close to needing a blow-off tube either. I like that benefit.
I do like the idea of liquid yeast for it's variety but have been perfectly happy with the dry yeast's results.
I'm going to the AHA boot camp in Asheville in March, attending the Yeast workshop (and hops one).
Chris White is doing the yeast workshop; I have several questions I'm going to try to get him to address, including:
1. Rehydration of dry yeast, and
2. Oxygenating wort into which dry yeast is sprinkled. There is a thread on here that says it's not necessary to oxygenate the wort. That doesn't make sense to me, but I want to hear what he has to say about it. I've read his book about 4 times, he seems to know what he's about.
Ah, good for you!
Keep a list in your back pocket and pick their brains all you can and for all it's worth!
From what I gather, wort oxygenation is not only for the yeast you pitch, but also for the next generation. Whether yeast is dry or liquid, it needs to multiply at least once or twice and they need oxygen to do that. That's why we oxygenate high gravity beer a 2nd time, 12-18 hours after pitching.
What yeast(s) do you use for those?
Do you aerate/oxygenate?
davidabcd
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As regards the yeast, nothing that you wouldn't expect: S-04 for the Old Ale (1.098). US-05 for the stout (1.110). T-58 for the Tripels/Quads (1.087/1.103). Two packs for every batch. As I said, no re-hydrating.
I also use the recommended amount of yeast nutrient for 5 gallons when going above 8%. I think it's .25t. No idea if it causes any benefit, but the beer hits the FG and it's cheap.
I aerate well by dumping the 3.5 gallons of cooled wort hard into the fermenter from a distance. Then when I pour top-off water, I do it from a decent height also. Then a long-handled, slotted spoon used vigorously. I keep the fermenter sealed until bottling.
That's as straightforward as can be! Wow!
Should we assume you have rather tightly controlled ferm temps?
Yeast nutrient amount depends on what you use. 1/4 tsp sounds really low for 5 gallons especially at high gravities. But hey, don't change a winning team!
I add 1 tsp of a 33% mix of each of Epsom Salt/DAP/Urea plus a tiny bit of Zinc Sulfate. Since I generally use yeast from (ranched) starters, I'm sure there are plenty of "yeast hulls" in there already.
Just curious, what kind of FGs are you getting in those beers?
davidabcd
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I would say I barely control the fermentation temperature; I let the basement take care of that. With the heavy beers, I haven't noticed a negative. When I did a Kolsch, though, I made a point of brewing when the basement was coolest, around 56F, and then let her fly. I got the light fruit quality. Very good result but not my preference in beer.
I use the LD Carlson nutrients. I'll re-check the bottle's recommendation. I'm not at all opposed to slight tweaking, especially in a case like this. Thanks.
FG's are around 1.020 or 1.014. I use recipes only and they list the target FG which I hit. Once, I ended too high with a FG by about .004 but I think that might have correlated to a higher OG.
Oh, believe me, I will. I'll pass on anything I learn of note. BTW, I was incorrect about it being AHA. It's a BYO boot camp.
That's what I always thought. But you'd be amazed at the degree of insistence that those dry yeast had all the oxygen/sterols necessary, period.
I don't believe it. I can't see any downside to oxygenating wort prior to pitching yeast, either liquid or dry. And I believe there's upside.
Here's a piece written by Chris White that supports what you and I think about this: https://byo.com/article/fermentation-time-line/
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JerrySwirls
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I just made a yeast starter Sunday with DRY yeast. 1cup water
1/2 DME
Boil for 10mins
Cool down in sink with ice water until you can touch the side of the Erlenmeyer flask with
Then pitched the yeast.
Stirred it 5xs within 5hours
24 hrs later pitched it in my primary
Has anyone tried using apple juice plus yeast nutrient instead of DME for making a starter? Especially the initial starter when trying to revive a weak or low cell-count yeast.
