Yeast starter fast-forward

[ARittner]

I'm usually able to answer about 99% of my questions here by searching around a while. This one I can't find an answer to, probably because the answer is a resounding "it depends", but here goes:

On Monday (yesterday) I did a 1.5L starter with a WLP002, for AHS's London Pub Ale kit. This is my first batch with a starter, and it's coming along fine. No real krausen, but I understand that's not an issue. It's been working for about 24 hours now, smells like beer, and fizzes up as I swirl it every hour. So no worries there.

Plan A was to let it do it's thing for 48 hours, then cold crash it for 48 hours, decant, and do my brewing on Friday. But tomorrow (Wednesday) looks like I'm going to get snowed in, and it would be a perfect brew day.

So tentatively, Plan B would be: starter ferments for 24 hours or so, then cold crashes over night. In the morning, take it out and decant, let it come up to room temp, brew.

Would this accelerated plan be OK? Or would I be better sticking to Plan A? I'm not in a rush to start the beer, but it would be nice to have something to do tomorrow instead of watching daytime TV.

-Andy

 

[steinsato]

I'm certainly no expert but I think either plan will make a good beer. I've even just straight up dumped entire 1.5-2 liter starters undecanted into my wort and they have been fine.

 

[dzlater]

If I was going to brew tomorrow I wouldn't chill and decant I'd just pitch the whole starter wort and all.

 

[Bitterbrush]

24hrs is plenty for a starter. Wyeast recommends 18~24hrs and then you can pitch. I just did a Bock with Wyeast and had to brew early. So I pitched the entire starter at 18hrs and had super fermentation really quick. So your plan B looks fine to me.

 

[ARittner]

Interesting. I'll keep an eye on the weather and plan accordingly. I've been siding (without personal experience) with the group that prefers not to pitch the whole starter, but decant instead. But that's one of those things that there isn't any consensus on, isn't it?

 

[JasonInBTR]

Different strokes for different folks. You say tomato I say tomato.

 

[MalFet]

Interesting. I'll keep an eye on the weather and plan accordingly. I've been siding (without personal experience) with the group that prefers not to pitch the whole starter, but decant instead. But that's one of those things that there isn't any consensus on, isn't it?

I think that the general consensus is that you want to decant for very large starters (say, >20% of total volume), but for small ones it doesn't make a huge difference either way. I tend to decant because I think it might make a very small difference, but I wouldn't hesitate to pitch without decanting a small starter if it suited my schedule better.

 

[Sheldon]

Let me show my lack of experience here. Why decant? What are the pro's and con's please. If there is a bit of suspended yeast in the liquid, how does that negatively affect the fermentation/finish?

Sheldon

 

[weirdboy]

The reason to decant is because most of the time your starter wort is not the same flavor as the wort you are pitching into. And for big OG beers the starters can be quite large and can account for a decent amount of the volume.

The amount of yeast in suspension is pretty low IF you have cold crashed for a couple of days before decanting. Sure, there's yeast going down the drain, but there's also plenty of healthy yeast left in the slurry. If you don't cold crash it I wouldn't really decant because I think too much healthy yeast is going to be in suspension after only a couple of days of activity.

 

[ARittner]

Let me show my lack of experience here. Why decant? What are the pro's and con's please. If there is a bit of suspended yeast in the liquid, how does that negatively affect the fermentation/finish?

Sheldon

All the swirling of the starter wort tends to make it taste bad. So lots of people cold crash the starter and decant off the liquid, then just pitch the yeast cake. Some say it makes a difference, others say it doesn't. I haven't had any experience either way.

 

[SKMO]

All the swirling of the starter wort tends to make it taste bad. So lots of people cold crash the starter and decant off the liquid, then just pitch the yeast cake. Some say it makes a difference, others say it doesn't. I haven't had any experience either way.

Got a tiny bit of evidence to back up this "fact" ? I'd like to hear it.

 

[MalFet]

Got a tiny bit of evidence to back up this "fact" ? I'd like to hear it.

Hey now, be nice. This isn't beer advocate.

Starter wort tends to be pretty thoroughly oxidized by the end of things, and decanting to avoid pitching the oxidized wort is a common practice. You may not feel it's necessary, and you may even be right, but he's citing a common practice and belief.

 

[sjbeerman]

According to JZ in his book on Yeast, he recommends to decant the starter wort if the volume is more than 5% of the total volume of the main wort. That would mean pitching no more than 1 L for a 5 gal batch.

 

[mikeysab]

According to JZ in his book on Yeast, he recommends to decant the starter wort if the volume is more than 5% of the total volume of the main wort. That would mean pitching no more than 1 L for a 5 gal batch.

I just started reading that book. I do remember reading somewhere else from jz that stated 18 hours was the optimal time to pitch an actively fermenting starter. And im on my phone, so please dont request proof. The percentage part makes total sense.

 

[dzlater]

Got a tiny bit of evidence to back up this "fact" ? I'd like to hear it.

Yea, taste your starter wort.

 

[kanzimonson]

Probably a little late answering this, but I wanted to say that 002 will almost definitely be ready after 24 hours - that baby is fast, and will floc out quickly as well.

I used to be firmly in the camp of "I don't care about pitching the entire starter - the active fermentation will clean up any off-flavors." But then someone on HBT pointed out that, yes, I was at least partially right, but if you want to make the best beers possible, you should eliminate every single tiny variable. So I stopped.

While some starters probably won't contribute anything noticeable to the final beer, it's all about the possibility of off-flavors for me. I think we can all agree that decanting reduces the chances of off-flavors from the starter affecting the beer, right? That's all I need to make me do it.

 

[sjbeerman]

I just started reading that book. I do remember reading somewhere else from jz that stated 18 hours was the optimal time to pitch an actively fermenting starter. And im on my phone, so please dont request proof. The percentage part makes total sense.

Yes, this is what he says. For most starters, the peak is around 12-18 h and it should be complete within 24 h. However, I would think this would depend on the size of the starter. For example, if its a 1 L starter it progresses much faster than a 2 L starter. If decanting, he recommends waiting an additional 8-12 h, which would place you around 36 h. I let it go for 48 h then cold crash in the fridge. I think I read 48 h somewhere else....It may have been Palmer's book...

 

[CaptKiRkLeS]

I'm in the "dump the whole thing in" camp and have not had any poor outcomes yet but maybe I do not know the potential of a better beer until I decant...I'll have to give it a shot for my next brew.

I do have a question about the cold crashing. Do you decant and pitch cold? Or do you let it come back up to temperature, decant and pitch?

 

[MalFet]

I'm in the "dump the whole thing in" camp and have not had any poor outcomes yet but maybe I do not know the potential of a better beer until I decant...I'll have to give it a shot for my next brew.

Don't expect to magically gain 5 points in your judged beers...this is nuance we're talking about.

I do have a question about the cold crashing. Do you decant and pitch cold? Or do you let it come back up to temperature, decant and pitch?

Abrupt temperature changes will stress yeast. Once you decant off, though, there's little enough thermal mass that your starter will hit room temperature relatively quickly. I pull my yeast out of the fridge at the beginning of brewday, decant it off, and put it someplace where it won't get knocked over. By the time it comes to pitch, it's close enough to my pitching temp that I don't worry about it.

 

[kanzimonson]

It seems like it's different for me every time, but I just try not to pitch yeast that is warmer than the receiving wort. Sometimes I've planned enough ahead that the entire flask has been chilled. But as I mentioned about 002 - it flocs and settles so well that you frequently don't have to chill it. When it's done, it will form a nice puck on the bottom.

 

[CaptKiRkLeS]

Don't expect to magically gain 5 points in your judged beers...this is nuance we're talking about.

Yea I wouldn't imagine it making a huge difference but it is something worth trying.

 

[ARittner]

Well I went ahead with the decant option. As predicted the school I work for was closed today so I had a free snow/brew day. In honor of the storm, I'll name it Ella's Ale, and I tossed a couple cups worth of clean snow into the boil.

 

[luismatalon]

My 2 cents:

I've had quality beers for awhile now and am very happy with my starter-to-pitch process.
I make my starter the night before I brew (so...around 18-20 hours from pitch time). I keep my starter in my chest freezer-turned-ferm chamber at exactly 2 degrees below what my pitch temperature will be. I dump the whole active starter into the well-oxygenated wort. (I admit that I'm not a big drinker of huge beers and I haven't consistenly made any beer thats had a higher OG than 1.070, therefore my stir plate starters aren't typically larger than 1.6L per 5 gallons)

I'm a big believer that making yeast happy will make great beer. I always keep the temperature 'on-the-rise'....so 2 degrees below pitch temp for starters, steady temp for active fermentation of my beers with a slow and steady temp ramp after 3 days or so to clean up any byproducts. I keep the beer in primary for no less than 2 weeks.

Everyone develops their own process..that's part of the fun. This works for me and I recommend it.