• Please visit and share your knowledge at our sister communities:
  • If you have not, please join our official Homebrewing Facebook Group!

    Homebrewing Facebook Group

Wyeast PC July -Sept 2014 - Sourpalooza

Homebrew Talk

Help Support Homebrew Talk:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
IIRC, from Wild Brews, ob's are fermented all the way up to the 90s in ss for shorter periods then blended with sweet beer.

It is a rather suggestion...but with de dom so is not adding 02 at pitch, but then adding oxygen periodically through fermentation.

I think I may use that one this weekend...maybe more of a dubbel based recipe, make a du-brune
 
I wouldn't be worried about pitching at 80 w/ (my assumptions on) that blend. I bet the lacto wakes up first.

I forgot to mention my pitching temp on a post...

82 and still maintaining...

Though you have a great point. I want to continue to assume that blend has no brett (to keep the malt base intact?) and so I wonder what sacc strain they have working in there.
 
I wouldn't be worried about pitching at 80 w/ (my assumptions on) that blend. I bet the lacto wakes up first.

I forgot to mention my pitching temp on a post...

82 and still maintaining...

Though you have a great point. I want to continue to assume that blend has no brett (to keep the malt base intact?) and so I wonder what sacc strain they have working in there.

I've got a pack of Oud Bruin arriving today. Considering pitching when the wort hits 80F, but putting it in the basement at 65F right after that. Still not sure exactly what I'm brewing with it though, I feel like I have enough classic dark sours aging already.
 
I've got a pack of Oud Bruin arriving today. Considering pitching when the wort hits 80F, but putting it in the basement at 65F right after that. Still not sure exactly what I'm brewing with it though, I feel like I have enough classic dark sours aging already.


Thank you for volunteering a saison style then?

:)
 
I asked wyeast for more info on De Bom; as in the website description, the instructions regarding no initial aeration, but then adding aeration thereafter was pretty vague. Follows is their response. Thanks go to Jess Caudill for responding and sharing the info. Figured I'd share with you all,

He also happened to provide info on Oud Bruin (was surprised to see that the Oud Bruin culture is designed to produce a drinkable beer in 6-8 weeks as well; it discusses micro aeration as well, but just indirectly).

2014 Summer Sours Additional Information

General Questions:
Swollen Package?- The blend may contain trace amounts of fermentable extract which can lead to CO2 production. Slight swelling of the Activator over time is OK.
Activate?- Although it will not hurt, you do not need to activate De Bom or Oud Bruin. The packages will not swell at the same rate as standard Wyeast Strains.

3203 De Bom:
&#8226; Keep IBU&#8217;s low (<15 IBUs)- Although the bacteria cultures have some hop resistance, we want the cultures to become quickly established in the fermentation for rapid acid production. Raising IBU levels will increase inhibition of the bacteria cultures and slow acid production.
&#8226; No O2 at inoculation- Once again, we want the bacteria cultures to become quickly established in the fermentation for rapid acid production. Raising O2 levels will increase inhibition of the bacteria cultures and slow acid production.
&#8226; Temperature (80-85&#8304;F)- The bacteria cultures perform better at warmer temperatures. Just like increasing IBU and O2 levels, decreasing fermentation temperatures will slow down acid production.
&#8226; Micro-aeration- A low level (not necessarily noticeable) of ethyl acetate (acetic/solvent) can increase the complexity of lambic style beers. Brettanomyces produces ethyl acetate when oxygen is available. This typically occurs slowly through the ingress of trace levels of oxygen into aging vessels. We recommend dosing small amounts of oxygen into the beer to accelerate this process with the following method:
o Monitor pH and gravity reduction in the fermenter until 80% fermentable extract has been reduced. ( (OG-G)/(OG-TGEpected))
o Add 4 ppm O2.
o Incubate 48 hours Measure gravity and pH and taste.
o Repeat aeration and testing cycle every 48 hours until desired complexity has been reached.
&#8226; Oak- This culture is designed to produce a drinkable beer in 6-8 weeks so it may be desirable to add oak during micro-aeration. Another method is to create an oak extract by boiling oak in 500-1000 ml water for 15 min. Once cooled, this can be dosed into sample volumes to determine final dosage rate for beer.


3203 Oud Bruin:
&#8226; Keep IBU&#8217;s low (<15 IBUs)- Although the bacteria cultures have some hop resistance, we want the cultures to become quickly established in the fermentation for rapid acid production. Raising IBU levels will increase inhibition of the bacteria cultures and slow acid production.
&#8226; No O2 at inoculation- Once again, we want the bacteria cultures to become quickly established in the fermentation for rapid acid production. Raising O2 levels will increase inhibition of the bacteria cultures and slow acid production.
&#8226; Temperature (80-85&#8304;F)- The bacteria cultures perform better at warmer temperatures. Just like increasing IBU and O2 levels, decreasing fermentation temperatures will slow down acid production.
&#8226; Oak- This culture is designed to produce a drinkable beer in 6-8 weeks so it may be desirable to add oak during micro-aeration. Another method is to create an oak extract by boiling oak in 500-1000 ml water for 15 min. Once cooled, this can be dosed into sample volumes to determine final dosage rate for beer.
 
Rebel Brewer apologized for some weird rye they send me with a free pack of De Bom (cool dudes). Might try it in a sour I'm planning with hibiscus, New Zealand wine and hops.
 
I saw an info sheet about these at the lhbs earlier today. I didn't pick any up, but I'm wondering if I should have.
 
The De Bom blend certainly sours quickly. Picked one up and pitched into a 1.060 porter over the weekend. Kept the temp up above 85F and the pH was down to 3.12 after 3.5 days. Taste was crisp and sour but a little thin and not overly complex. I tried some O2 according to Wyeast reccs and have some gummy Brett flavors coming out of the airlock now.

It has been an interesting fermentation to watch, much cleaner krausen initially. Loads of bubbles everywhere.
 
That's interesting. I haven't checked mine in 4 days, but the airlock was sure happy. I'll do a sample tomorrow and see where it's at. Glad to hear about the Brett. Wasn't sure what all was in there :).
 
The De Bom blend certainly sours quickly. Picked one up and pitched into a 1.060 porter over the weekend. Kept the temp up above 85F and the pH was down to 3.12 after 3.5 days. Taste was crisp and sour but a little thin and not overly complex. I tried some O2 according to Wyeast reccs and have some gummy Brett flavors coming out of the airlock now.

It has been an interesting fermentation to watch, much cleaner krausen initially. Loads of bubbles everywhere.

Good to hear it's working out! I bet that's the brevis. Seems to sour very aggressively and in short order.
 
Ordered De Bom and the Lacto Brevis today. Should be here Friday. Going to do a brown sour with the De Bom and do a side by side Gose with the Brevis from White Labs. I want to see if this is more aggressive and will take less work than the Lacto Del that I've used in the past. It takes too much work to get a good sour lactic taste for me. De Bom sounds really interesting. Couldn't fine the Oud Bruin anywhere in stock to order.
 
Ordered De Bom and the Lacto Brevis today. Should be here Friday. Going to do a brown sour with the De Bom and do a side by side Gose with the Brevis from White Labs. I want to see if this is more aggressive and will take less work than the Lacto Del that I've used in the past. It takes too much work to get a good sour lactic taste for me. De Bom sounds really interesting. Couldn't fine the Oud Bruin anywhere in stock to order.


Excited for the side by side!


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
 
How are you all oxygenating for these beers (De Bom in particular)? Wyeast suggests 4ppm, and I am a little fearful of perhaps over oxygenating using my diffusion stone and pure 02 (and also possibly contaminating my 02 setup, though I suppose the stone could be boiled and tubing switched out). Based on the chart they provide (https://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_oxygenation.cfm) simply shaking it would be closer to 4ppm, but could other problems occur from shaking and splashing the beer after it has already fermented for a few weeks?
 
How are you all oxygenating for these beers (De Bom in particular)? Wyeast suggests 4ppm, and I am a little fearful of perhaps over oxygenating using my diffusion stone and pure 02 (and also possibly contaminating my 02 setup, though I suppose the stone could be boiled and tubing switched out). Based on the chart they provide (https://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_oxygenation.cfm) simply shaking it would be closer to 4ppm, but could other problems occur from shaking and splashing the beer after it has already fermented for a few weeks?

I would be a little uneasy about plunging my stone in there as well, as there are a lot of little crevices that are hard to clean in a stone. However, if you have an autoclave/pressure cooker or access to one, if you hold it at 121 C/15 PSI for 15 minutes, you should be good!
 
For those of you that have used 3203, did you make a starter?
 
I did not use a starter for 3203 in my 1.050 Oud Bruin. At 12 days it's at 1.012, showing some signs of souring and has lots of yeast rafts on top. No off flavors. Pretty delicious, if a bit mild as of yet.
 
I did not use a starter for 3203 in my 1.050 Oud Bruin. At 12 days it's at 1.012, showing some signs of souring and has lots of yeast rafts on top. No off flavors. Pretty delicious, if a bit mild as of yet.

Awesome. I think I'll grab a pack when I get the chance and make a sour after my helles and IPA that I have planned. Thinking maybe a pilsner nelson smash.
 
I just transferred an Oud Bruin brewed with 3209 to secondary. I pitched in the mid-70s and it probably crept up above 80 pretty early in fermentation. It's about 2.5 weeks old, and the gravity is at 1.020, down from 1.062. The pH was 3.81.

Taste is definitely sour, and a bit fruity, but still very rough as you'd expect this young. I was torn about adding fruit now or waiting, but since Jess Caudill from Wyeast said that the blend was designed for a 4-6 week turnaround, I decided to add cherries now, and think about bottling in 2 months. To be honest, I'm half expecting the beer to pick up some brett from the cherries anyway, which might force me to age it longer.
 
I have been using my O2 wand to supplement oxygen into the fermentors. About 15 seconds or so has been what I'm going with. I've just been soaking my wand in StarSan in between uses, so here's to hoping that stuff works pretty well!

There doesn't seem to be any need for a starter with 3203. I pitched directly into 1.060 wort at the high side of Wyeast temp recommendations and got clean fermentation right on through. Sourness and dimension is continuing to develop. I actually just took a sample, and it was surprisingly delicious for just over 2 weeks old.

I did a 1.078 strong blond last weekend with 3203, but I also added a few pumps of 3724 cake to push through the sugars a bit easier. After a week the flavor is a bit less tart than the first trial, but there's still pretty significant activity in the fermentor so I'm sure it will continue to develop.

It would have been really interesting to see how one Wyeast pack alone would handle a higher gravity wort without any aeration, starter, etc.
 
Impressed by the L. brevis so far. Both the Berliner and the Saison I pitched it into last weekend have a nice tartness already (despite fermenting at 65F in competition with ale yeast). No weird off-flavors to report either. Looks like both are still working, so we'll see where they end up.
 
Impressed by the L. brevis so far. Both the Berliner and the Saison I pitched it into last weekend have a nice tartness already (despite fermenting at 65F in competition with ale yeast). No weird off-flavors to report either. Looks like both are still working, so we'll see where they end up.


Awesome to hear. So you pitched them both with the ale yeast right off the bat? No need for the few days alone to get it tart before the ale yeast takes over huh? Mine came in Friday so I'm going to split a batch of Gose between the two.

Did you do any starter with them?



Santé!

Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
 
Awesome to hear. So you pitched them both with the ale yeast right off the bat? No need for the few days alone to get it tart before the ale yeast takes over huh? Mine came in Friday so I'm going to split a batch of Gose between the two.

Did you do any starter with them?

Santé!

Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

I did a 1L starter on my stir-plate for a couple days.

I pitched the Lacto when the worts hit ~90F, and placed them in my basement at 65F. The saison blend went in just a few hours later (I diluted with some cold water to knock down the temperature to 75F), the Berliner got the US-05 and some Brett dregs about 24 hours after the Lacto. Neither had much acidity when the yeast went in, saison looked much more active than the Berliner at 24 hours.
 
I did a 1L starter on my stir-plate for a couple days.



I pitched the Lacto when the worts hit ~90F, and placed them in my basement at 65F. The saison blend went in just a few hours later (I diluted with some cold water to knock down the temperature to 75F), the Berliner got the US-05 and some Brett dregs about 24 hours after the Lacto. Neither had much acidity when the yeast went in, saison looked much more active than the Berliner at 24 hours.


I'm going to throw them on a stir plate in the garage for a couple days I think. Then seen how close each labs version is.



Santé!

Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
 
So my wife was driving by my LHBS on Friday and she called to see if I wanted her to pick up anything for me. I told her if they had any of the Wyeast sour PC offerings, to please grab one. When she got home, she surprised me with a pack of each (she's awesome). So given the sour that I already had planned, my next four batches will be sour beers.
 
I pitched 3203 De Bom blend into 1046 wort Sunday night without aerating at all as the instructions called for. It's been nearly two days now and there is a nice krausen going on top of the beer.

My question to you guy is how long should I wait to start the micro-aerations of 4PPM O2 the instructions call for? They are pretty vague and only specify "during fermentation."
 
I just brewed with de bom. I'm stuck at 1.040, og 1.057. 2 weeks in. Fermenting in the 80's. Tastes great with light sourness. I have the oud bruin in a 30 gallon oak barrel. Haven't tried it yet. Took off like a champ.
 
I just brewed with de bom. I'm stuck at 1.040, og 1.057. 2 weeks in. Fermenting in the 80's. Tastes great with light sourness. I have the oud bruin in a 30 gallon oak barrel. Haven't tried it yet. Took off like a champ.

Have you added any O2 yet as the Wyeast instruction call for?
 
Back
Top