Wyeast PC July -Sept 2014 - Sourpalooza

[Gus_13]

Thanks for the response. I guess it makes sense that there's oxygen in the carboy since I take a sample almost weekly (a little over excited on this beer).

I have to hide mine so I won't keep pulling samples haha! Here lately I've been putting them behind my dining room table with tshirts over them so I can try to forget about them. Others are buried deep in my closet so I will only check on them when I have it written in my notes.

 

[Oldsock]

Any results from the Oud Bruin Blend yet?

Sunday I brewed five gallons of 1.055 stout-ish beer with it. My first extract (rye LME and wheat DME) sour, steeping some dark grains (roasted barley and chocolate rye) and crystal malts (CaraMunich and Special B). Took 24 hours to see any activity, rocking 12 hours later.

Still trying to figure out what to brew with De Bom.

 

[DrKnow]

Anyone have a finished beer with any of these yet? I have two batches going with the De Bom. I'm about two months in and haven't tasted them yet other than racking to secondary.

 

[BigPerm]

Any results from the Oud Bruin Blend yet?

Sunday I brewed five gallons of 1.055 stout-ish beer with it. My first extract (rye LME and wheat DME) sour, steeping some dark grains (roasted barley and chocolate rye) and crystal malts (CaraMunich and Special B). Took 24 hours to see any activity, rocking 12 hours later.

Still trying to figure out what to brew with De Bom.

I made an Oud Bruin with it about two months ago. It was in primary until about 10 days ago, when I racked to a carboy and pitched the slurry into a cranberry gose (which took off like a rocket.)

Gravity has been stable (1.014) for about 6 weeks. Tartness was evident but not overwhelming. I should note that I did NOT do the microaeration that was suggested, but I did rack a little more roughly than normal.

I know that's not really an answer, but that's what I've done. I think it's going to be nice, but just maybe not as quick as it could be. As a side note, I fermented a no-boil BW with Wyeast L. brevis a few weeks earlier, and it's coming along pretty nicely.

 

[badgoat]

Any results from the Oud Bruin Blend yet?

Sunday I brewed five gallons of 1.055 stout-ish beer with it. My first extract (rye LME and wheat DME) sour, steeping some dark grains (roasted barley and chocolate rye) and crystal malts (CaraMunich and Special B). Took 24 hours to see any activity, rocking 12 hours later.

Still trying to figure out what to brew with De Bom.

The old bruin is coming out nice. I have it in a 30 gallon american oak barrel. I'm getting nice lactic and acetic acid notes. I brewed and added to the barrel 3 months ago. I feel it can go another month till I bottle. No added O2 because it was in the barrel. Only thing I would change is mashing higher(156) I should have gone for 158. I would use this again. Definitely sharper sour notes than de bom(same malt bill/brew batch 38 gallons)

 

[Oophaga]

My oud bruin like recipe is doing fantastic. At one month it is definitely tart and a little funky. It has been in a bucket though, so it may be getting micro aeration causing more tartness(acetic) I will know later down the road. I may rack to a carboy this week just for a piece of mind.

 

[metic]

My flanders brown fermented with the oud bruin blend soured fine, but is a bit one-dimensional. Its sitting on tart cherries at the moment and has continued to drop down to 1.006. This may be because it picked up other yeast/bacteria from the cherries. I'll probably bottle it soon if the gravity seems stable, and hope it becomes a bit more expressive in the bottle with a little carbonation.

 

[m00se]

The 1.064 oud bruin i did has been at 80-85 the entire 6wk time frame and stopped at 1022. It's been at 1022 for a few weeks. Taste wise, it's not really where I want it. My plan was to rack 3gal onto sour cherries and a small pitch of bug farm to bump the acidity a little and cut down the sweetness. Maybe Brux for a gal and keep the last gal straight.

 

[Oophaga]

Btw I used de bom in my oud bruin recipe. Not the oud bruin blend.

 

[joshrosborne]

Finally picked up De Bom! Looking forward to giving it a try. I have too much yeast at the moment, though, so it'll have to go in a queue.

 

[finsfan]

I also just ordered some De Bom. My plan is to throw it in a one gallon jug with saison wort and then use that cake for a 5 gallon batch of something, maybe DC's sour stout.

 

[dantheman13]

My experience so far with Wyeast's L. brevis: http://tinyurl.com/qed77tq

Underwhelming so far, unfortunately.

 

[505-Brewer]

that or at least a good blending base. I'm game to try. what sucks is bugs are difficult to plate in the proper proportions so if this thing is only available from July-Sept it may be tough to get if we get hooked on it.... Heck - maybe the cake will support four or five good and zippy batches.

Anybody re-pitch yet? Curious to see how the blend evolves. Maybe too early but someone should be getting close eh?

Edit: saw one post where this has been done. Looking to hear more in time.

 

[505-Brewer]

Any do a Saison with the Oud Bruin blend?
Can't decide what I want to pitch it in.
I sorta think I should throw it into a southern English brown I need to brew in the next couple weeks then rep itch the dregs into a Saison.

 

[ControlFreak1975]

I brewed 8 gallons of of Flanders Brown with the Oud Bruin yeast. Made my first starter for the batch too. I split the batch into 2 carboys. Fermentation took off in the smaller batch within 6 hours. The larger batch (5 gallons) took a few hours longer. I took some notes which I'll post here. Sorry for any repetition.

10/19/14 OG of 1.082.
10/20/14
Made 2 carboys worth 1 is 5 gal the other approx 4 gal. Smaller one started fermenting within 6 hours. Larger started over night sometime with a monster punch and a huge Krousen. All the air space is Krousen. Both are going to town. I used Wyeast Oud Bruin strain and made it a starter.
10/21/14 Airlocks still going strong but have slowed a bit. Temp still holding @ 72.5 degrees F. I think I'll wait a couple days before checking on it again.
10/27/14
Tasted and measured today. Gravity is at 1.020. Flavor is of a nice brown ale. Just a very small hint of tartness. Temp is now at 80 degrees consistently. Time to wait at least a couple more weeks before I try it again.

 

[bil2112l]

Had anyone had trouble with the Oud Bruin starting slow? I pitched it yesterday and no activity yet. Am I just being impatient? When should I pitch more yeast?

 

[globe]

How long should I keep de bom at 80-85 degrees? I dont want fill up my chamber for 2 months or however long it takes. I guess i could make a swamp cooler with a fish tank heater if I have to.

 

[joshrosborne]

I left mine at that temperature for a little over a week, which is how long it took to reach the level of sourness I wanted.

 

[BigPerm]

Had anyone had trouble with the Oud Bruin starting slow? I pitched it yesterday and no activity yet. Am I just being impatient? When should I pitch more yeast?

Mine was going within 24 hours. Your pack may have been a little older than mine was. If its not going in ~ 72 hours, pitch an ale yeast. Also, make sure youre keeping your fermenter warm. They recommend 85F.

 

[jnacey]

Has anybody actually made what they deem a successful batch with either of these yet? Seems like people are a bit underwhelmed at the 2 month mark.

 

[youreanimpulse]

My Berliner is awesome, but I added JP La Roja dregs so I don't know if it counts.

 

[microbusbrewery]

I pulled a sample of a sour rye I brewed. It was brewed back on 10/12 and fermented with De Bom, so it's very young for a sour. It smelled very sour...similar to Berliner Weisses I've made. Flavor-wise it was definitely sour but much more subdued than I expected it to be based on the aroma. I'm interested to see what it does over the next few months.

 

[alanburtonwells]

Has anybody actually made what they deem a successful batch with either of these yet? Seems like people are a bit underwhelmed at the 2 month mark.

I pitched the de bom blend in August. At two months it definitely had off flavors that needed more time for the bacteria to clean them up. At the end of October I tasted it and there was light pleasant sourness. I decided to rack the 5 gallons onto 7-8 lbs of raspberries in the hopes the sugars from them would let the bugs chug away and lower the pH even further. I did add a bunch of dregs when I racked onto the raspberries and there is a great pellicle forming now but I can't necessarily attribute that to the de bom blend when I added dregs.

In the end I would've been content with the beer I tasted before racking onto berries but I wouldn't use this ever again (I did pitch another beer onto the yeast/bacteria cake of the de bom blend so we will see if 2nd gen de bom actually sours better, I'm assuming it will). The reason why I say that is I did the same exact beer but pitched the roselare blend and it was much more sour and pleasant tasting in two months than the de bom blend which is actually advertised for that.

 

[505-Brewer]

Any do a Saison with the Oud Bruin blend?
Can't decide what I want to pitch it in.
I sorta think I should throw it into a southern English brown I need to brew in the next couple weeks then rep itch the dregs into a Saison.

Ok, finally made time to use Oud Bruin blend. 11 gal of golden wort into 2 carboys. Half w Oud Bruin and half with Lambic Blend/Nottingham.
Re: Oud Bruin. Took 3-4 days at 80F to see activity. Good krasuen (albeit it lite and soapy looking). Fermenting at 80F with space heater in chest freezer. Got unplugged and cooled to 72F, lost Krausen. And activity. Sample shows pH 4.05, SG ~ 1.040 (OG was 1.062). Use carboy heater to get temp back up. Overshot to ~89-90. Letting it cool back down to 80F or so. Need to get a thermalwell/controller setup going. Overall lightly tart but still sweet from the remaining sugar. I mashed ~156-158. Reminded me of a sweet New Belgium Snapshot. Not looking for a lot of sour but a nice crisp tartness from lacto. (Actually wicked sour would be good cuz then I could blend it out to taste, but don't see that in the cards.) Wyeast says it makes interesting saison but I don't see much in the way of Saison character. I think a custom blend of lacto and belgian yeast would be interesting in the future.

Couple questions:
1) Any real issues with temp being higher than 85F ?
2) Once it hits 1.020 I'm going to cool to ~70F and then hit with O2 a bit daily. Sound right?
3) Why do some folks recommend pitching ale yeast with the lambic blend. Wyeast and others say pitch as is? If I recall Oldsock,says its prevents "resiny" flavors? What is the source of those?

Cheers.
Will report back in time.

 

[Oldsock]

3) Why do some folks recommend pitching ale yeast with the lambic blend. Wyeast and others say pitch as is? If I recall Oldsock,says its prevents "resiny" flavors? What is the source of those?

For me it is just about consistency. I don't see any advantage to a slow/unhealthy primary fermentation. That resiny flavor was in my first batch of lambic (eight years ago). No idea what the cause was. Who knows how old that pack of Wyeast Lambic Blend was, I certainly didn't check. If you are pitching one that is fresh it shouldn't be a concern, but I don't see any harm in a bit of extra brewer's yeast.

 

[505-Brewer]

Thank you, slow start was all I could think of as being less than prime. Was wondering if I had missed something. Cheers.

 

[jnacey]

Couple questions:
1) Any real issues with temp being higher than 85F ?
2) Once it hits 1.020 I'm going to cool to ~70F and then hit with O2 a bit daily. Sound right?
3) Why do some folks recommend pitching ale yeast with the lambic blend. Wyeast and others say pitch as is? If I recall Oldsock,says its prevents "resiny" flavors? What is the source of those?

Cheers.
Will report back in time.

1) I wouldn't imagine. The higher temp would do two things, imo. It would encourage the growth of the lacto brevis in the blend to increase acidity and drop pH, but it could also encourage the production of phenols given the sacc strain is in the blend as well. When I used this blend, I put it up into the 90s for around a week, but I pitched Brett Trois with it as well (I wanted to use the De Bom blend, but couldn't get any so I tried to make my own).

2) I know that Wyeast encourages the aeration, but this scares the **** out of me. All it will do is encourage the production of acetic acid, which is okay in small amounts, but can totally ruin the beer if it's in too high of a concentration. I'd rather have this sit for like 4-6 months, versus the 2-3 they recommend, to develop complexity. From my initial tastes, this blend creates a nice, soft lactic acidity that is fairly one dimensional, but is begging for a fruit addition or something along those lines.

3) What Mike said. I always have just pitched the blends and added dregs and its worked out for me.

Cheers!

 

[gometz]

My second generation of the blend along with dregs for 6 (or maybe 7?) different sours has made a Flanders Red recipe pretty sour. It's not Rodenbach style pucker, but it is close. If anything it is a bit too full and sweet tasting still compared to Rodenbach.

I believe it is about 1.5 months old (don't have my notes online, think it was brewed 11/25). I plan on letting it sit in the carboy for another month or so, cold crash it a little, then bottle and repitch back onto the cake. This generation is definitely much more sour than the first, but I don't know how much of that is due to the dregs.

 

[505-Brewer]

How long is it taking most folks? I'm thinking the older smack back might need a boost of fresh lacto starter. 1.5 weeks down to 1.038 from 1.062. pH ~ 3.9

 

[505-Brewer]

Ok, so a bit more searching and reading posts here and on interweb. As far as I can tell micro-oxygenation is recommended (but optional) for the De Bom blend in order for the Brett to create some ethyl acetate. As far as I can tell it is not really needed for the beer to finish out. More importantly for the Oud Bruin blend, nowhere is it even recommended. Doing so would likely lead to some acetic acid production from the Lacto Brevis which may or may not be desirable. Depending on what your making It seems that the two blends are getting lumped together in the "fast souring genre" where the assumption is that micro oxygenation is needed to wake up the sacc and finish it off (I certainly assumed and made reference to that). But now I don't think so.

I think I should just let it ride to get it to be sour in the 6-8 week timeframe as stated. (I pitched more Lacto Brevis to speed it up). If I can make time I'll try to seek clarification from Wyeast.

From:

http://www.wyeastlab.com/3rdQrtPC2014acv.cfm

3209 Oud Bruin

· Keep IBU’s low (<15 IBUs)- Although the bacteria cultures have some hop resistance, we want the cultures to become quickly established in the fermentation for rapid acid production. Raising IBU levels will increase inhibition of the bacteria cultures and slow acid production.
· No O2 at inoculation- Once again, we want the bacteria cultures to become quickly established in the fermentation for rapid acid production. Raising O2 levels will increase inhibition of the bacteria cultures and slow acid production.
· Temperature (80-85°F)- The bacteria cultures perform better at warmer temperatures. Just like increasing IBU and O2 levels, decreasing fermentation temperatures will slow down acid production.
· Oak- This culture is designed to produce a drinkable beer in 6-8 weeks so it may be desirable to add oak during micro-aeration. Another method is to create an oak extract by boiling oak in 500-1000 ml water for 15 min. Once cooled, this can be dosed into sample volumes to determine final dosage rate for beer.

No where is micro oxygenation mentioned for this strain.

Anyway thought I'd post this up in case anyone else was thinking the same.