Wyeast PC July -Sept 2014 - Sourpalooza

[osito]

I had two handy so I just thought why not. Both were activated 3 hours earlier and were at room temp when pitched

 

[youreanimpulse]

Haven't touched mine since two weeks (a week ago) and only checked the airlock in case it needed filling in the first two weeks. It went from 1.050 to 1.012 in two weeks in a warm closet under blankets.

 

[Gus_13]

Thinking of going with this for the Oud Bruin mix I got in. I ordered some different yeast but they were out and I asked if they had this in to swap and they did. Feedback appreciated. Not sure if I'm going too heavy with the specialty malts. Thinking of reducing the IBUs as well as recommended.

Recipe: Oud Bruin
Brewer: Gus
Asst Brewer:
Style: Flanders Brown Ale/Oud Bruin
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 8.46 gal
Post Boil Volume: 6.76 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal
Bottling Volume: 4.75 gal
Estimated OG: 1.060 SG
Estimated Color: 21.5 SRM
Estimated IBU: 15.1 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 82.7 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
6 lbs Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 45.3 %
3 lbs Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 2 22.6 %
2 lbs Caramunich Malt (56.0 SRM) Grain 3 15.1 %
12.0 oz Aromatic Malt (Briess) (20.0 SRM) Grain 4 5.7 %
12.0 oz Caravienne Malt (22.0 SRM) Grain 5 5.7 %
12.0 oz Special B Malt (180.0 SRM) Grain 6 5.7 %
1.00 oz Hallertauer [4.80 %] - Boil 75.0 min Hop 7 15.1 IBUs
1.0 pkg Oud Bruin Blend (Wyeast #3029-PC) Yeast 8 -


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 13 lbs 4.0 oz
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 19.76 qt of water at 161.8 F 152.0 F 60 min

Sparge: Batch sparge with 2 steps (Drain mash tun , 5.90gal) of 168.0 F water
Notes:
------

 

[gometz]

I had two handy so I just thought why not. Both were activated 3 hours earlier and were at room temp when pitched

Probably didn't hurt to pitch both, but probably didn't help either (though the yeast may end up using up too much sugar before the bacteria becomes active).

What about temperature? Wyeast says to hold at 80-85°F. Mine for instance is in my spare room with the A/C centre shut off, blinds open, and doors closed (also a towel beneath the door to keep in the heat). The room is probably 80°F, but I'm the box it had been consistently 82°F (pitched closer to 75° and let it free rise).

 

[gometz]

Double post

 

[osito]

It's sitting in a 75F room with a heat belt and temp controller, probe is insulated to the side of fermenter and temp is set to 80F. Now there's slow, steady airlock activity, and still no krausen after 50 hours. The wort looks a bit milky and there are 3 or so large bubbles hanging out. The aroma from the air lock is sour and grainy.

 

[gometz]

It's sitting in a 75F room with a heat belt and temp controller, probe is insulated to the side of fermenter and temp is set to 80F. Now there's slow, steady airlock activity, and still no krausen after 50 hours. The wort looks a bit milky and there are 3 or so large bubbles hanging out. The aroma from the air lock is sour and grainy.

Sorry I got confused and thought you had no activity (if after 50 hours it's already smelling sour, that's awesome).

No krausen doesn't necessarily mean anything. I've had completely different experiences with the same yeast (once really sulfury, then not, huge krausen, then very little, etc). My krausen is very thick on this one, but not big (maybe an inch and a half).

 

[Oaked]

I broke my own rule (after considering all this O2 dosing that folks are discussing!) and took a gravity/sample of the De Bom-3203 at 4 weeks from brew day. I did not add any additional oxygen during or after fermentation. I just took the airlock off for a couple light swirls at day 3 and 4, then when I sampled over the weekend.

1.006/7 down from 1.040

Tart- close to sour which is amazing for a month. Then again its just a lacto tartness. I believe I added too much O2 when I poured the wort in the fermentor and the brett/sacc kicked in relatively quickly. It surely has some light funk that reminds me its basically a brett primary. Nothing too funky/aggressive yet- maybe that will come in the following weeks/months (if it lasts that long) I'm leaving this alone for another two weeks. Considering adding honey and/or oak before kegging. Its thin- I wish I mashed higher than 153 or built in more body through the grist.

Please talk me out of a sour stout (Tart of Darkness-ish) with the Oud Bruin-3209. Does The Bruery's TOD have brett? I've yet to try it.

Plus we've yet to truly confirm that 3209 has brett in it...correct?

 

[gometz]

I am on day 4 now, no gravity readings yet. I guess at this point I could go ahead and aerate? I just bought an air pump for this, so 1-2 minutes with that should suffice in I understand correctly.

 

[metic]

I got a reply from Jess Caudill of Wyeast stating that there is no brettanomyces in the oud bruin blend. Could the earlier information have been a miscommunication?

 

[Gus_13]

I got a reply from Jess Caudill of Wyeast stating that there is no brettanomyces in the oud bruin blend. Could the earlier information have been a miscommunication?

Glad I clicked the link in your sig. I've been reading over your blog for the last little bit. Good stuff man. I love the ideas you have in there of blending a sour with a saison. I'll definitely pull some ideas out of here!

Cheers!

 

[dantheman13]

Glad I clicked the link in your sig. I've been reading over your blog for the last little bit. Good stuff man. I love the ideas you have in there of blending a sour with a saison. I'll definitely pull some ideas out of here!

Cheers!

Yup.. he's in meh Feedly.com account!

 

[TNGabe]

Interesting note on the L. Brevis. Got a pack of the L Brevis and some pedio to grow up and keep together with my usual L Delbrueckii to have a more diverse collection of lactic bacteria. Wondering about the differing growth rates, I thought I'd see what American Sour beers has to say. Check out page 71. Hop tolerant bacteria will lose hop tolerance if grown in an unhopped medium. Further, research has shown that hop tolerance can be developed by using an increasingly hopped medium for growth.

 

[Gus_13]

I think I'm going to hammer out the Oud Bruin this weekend or next. See if I've got too many specialty grains in this or not. We'll see. I'm excited about the blend.

 

[m00se]

for the Oud Bruin, are people making starters? I have a recipe I want to make with an OG of 1074. Not sure the smack pack can handle that.

 

[Gus_13]

for the Oud Bruin, are people making starters? I have a recipe I want to make with an OG of 1074. Not sure the smack pack can handle that.

I've pondered this as well. Mine is targeted for 1.060 so that should be ok with what Wyeast says on the pack. I would assume a starter would mess with the balance of bugs that are in the pack but I'm not positive.

 

[metic]

Jess Caudill's advice suggested that yeast numbers are deliberately low in the Oud Bruin blend to give the lactobacillus a chance to ferment a lot of the wort. Most of her advice for using the blend seem to be based on the idea of creating an environment that was favourable for the lactobacillus, and an increased proportion of saccharomyces might work against that. Then again, maybe the lacto population would also grow significantly in the starter as well, so that proportions weren't too far off the original (if you didn't aerate and fermented it warm). Hard to say.

 

[thatjonguy]

Ordered a 3203 and 3209. Looking forward to this project. This will make life much better if this works out. Might even inoculate a barrel...

 

[BigPerm]

I got a reply from Jess Caudill of Wyeast stating that there is no brettanomyces in the oud bruin blend. Could the earlier information have been a miscommunication?

Weird. I asked specifically about that blend and got the answer I posted earlier (from the same person). I wonder what's up with that (and which one is right). I'm guessing your answer is correct, since its makes the most sense. I'll follow up to be fully sure.

 

[gometz]

So I am a little worried. This is my first attempt at a sour and the wort I made had about 16 IBU, which i assumed the lacto in 3203 could handle.

But maybe I didn't understand IBU limits correctly. Is it truly just how bier it is, and late additions not inhibit bacterial growth as much? Or, is it just the sheer amount of hop oils in solution?

I ask because i added 0.75 oz Nelson Sauvin at 1 minute, adding less that 2 IBU, but that's a considerable amount of hop oils. After 5 days there only a slight sour smell from the carboy. I'm going to check the pH tonight to see if it has dropped noticeably.

 

[BigPerm]

Weird. I asked specifically about that blend and got the answer I posted earlier (from the same person). I wonder what's up with that (and which one is right). I'm guessing your answer is correct, since its makes the most sense. I'll follow up to be fully sure.

Double checked with Jess @ wyeast. No Brett in Oud Bruin blend. She apologized fairly profusely for the mis-information, and offered to make it right if I'd already made the beer (I haven't). Stand-up company.

 

[Gus_13]

Double checked with Jess @ wyeast. No Brett in Oud Bruin blend. She apologized fairly profusely for the mis-information, and offered to make it right if I'd already made the beer (I haven't). Stand-up company.

Great! Glad this is cleared up. This should turn around a bit quicker brew now. Blend of Lacto and Sac should be some nice stuff if a good malt base is around.


Santé!

Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[Oldsock]

Double checked with Jess @ wyeast. No Brett in Oud Bruin blend. She apologized fairly profusely for the mis-information, and offered to make it right if I'd already made the beer (I haven't). Stand-up company.

Glad he cleared it up... https://www.wyeastlab.com/au_labtour.cfm

 

[FredTheNuke]

Dam. I thought we almost had a woman who makes beer yeast AND swears... That woulda been a keeper!!!

 

[BigPerm]

Glad he cleared it up... https://www.wyeastlab.com/au_labtour.cfm

I guess this is where I apologize profusely for the mis-information.

 

[MrOrange]

Brewed last weekend with a simple grain bill.

10.75lbs 2-row
4lbs flaked wheat
.75lbs caramunich
Belle Saison and de bon sour blend

Not sure what's going on in the fermenter but this beer smells amazing. I cannot wait to see how this one turns out!

 

[runs4beer]

Dam. I thought we almost had a woman who makes beer yeast AND swears... That woulda been a keeper!!!

That would be Nava.

 

[runs4beer]

Dam. I thought we almost had a woman who makes beer yeast AND swears... That woulda been a keeper!!!

That would be Nava, right?

 

[FredTheNuke]

Maybe... In between baby songs there could be an F bomb... Never met her.



Neva Parker
Head of Laboratory Operations, White Labs
Neva is based in San Diego

Neva has been with the White Labs family since 2002. She earned her bachelor's degree in microbiology from Gonzaga University in Spokane, WA. She became interested in beer while studying abroad in London when she attended the annual Campaign for Real Ale (CAMRA) festival. Neva manages laboratory operations and has been responsible for researching and developing new products and services, as well as speaking at several workshops and conferences, and publishing fermentation research. She is a member of the American Society of Brewing Chemists, Master Brewers Associate of the Americas, and AHA homebrew club of the year for a seven-year streak, the Quality Ale and Fermentation Fraternity (QUAFF). In her spare time, Neva enjoys spending time with her beer enthusiast husband, Glen, and her beautiful daughter, Ada (born in January of 2009). Her hobbies include cooking, eating, making up baby songs, brewing, organizing, and happy hour.

 

[BigPerm]

Just thought I'd update:

Brewed my Oud Bruin last Saturday (8.16), OG 1.063. Activated fresh smack pack, no starter. Pitched at ~82F, fermented in mid-high 70s. Down today to 1.015 with subtle, but noticable, lactic sourness. It's got a ways to go (and isn't even done fermenting), but I was surprised to get any lactic notes after only 5+ days of fermentation.

I've heard (here and elsewhere) that L. brevis is the primary strain in this blend. I made a berliner weisse 2 weeks ago, and pitched a 1L starter of wyeast L. brevis. Pitched US-05 about 24 hours later (no activity at that point). That one has a really prominent lactic character, but not yet what I'd call sour. But its worlds ahead of where my last berliner weisse was at this point, which was fermented hot (90F) with a monster L. delbruckii starter.

Seems to be a very robust bacteria. Happy so far, and looking forward to both of these. Good luck to all trying!

 

[bryreeves]

What is in De Bom besides a fast-acting Lacto. Does anyone have any additional details???

 

[youreanimpulse]

My understanding is some Brett and some ale yeast, but no idea what kinds. I imagine it's a bit of a purposeful secret.

 

[Gus_13]

I also think that it has Ale Yeast, Brett and Lacto but no pedio as that would slow it down a lot. Brett strains are probably more aggressive as well.


Santé!

Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[BigPerm]

I also think that it has Ale Yeast, Brett and Lacto but no pedio as that would slow it down a lot. Brett strains are probably more aggressive as well.

This is what Jess @ Wyeast told me. I assume the Lacto is L. brevis, as has been mentioned and inferred from the details. I tried to pry the Brettanomyces/Saccharomyces strains out of him, but no dice....

 

[Gus_13]

This is what Jess @ Wyeast told me. I assume the Lacto is L. brevis, as has been mentioned and inferred from the details. I tried to pry the Brettanomyces/Saccharomyces strains out of him, but no dice....

I honestly would assume the ale yeast is something clean and aggressive. I wouldn't be surprised is it was a cleaner Belgian or even something like Chico. Finish fast and clean to let the Lacto work and the Brett clean up any longer chains or any thing else.


Santé!

Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[gometz]

I checked on my batch with 3203 yesterday and found this pellicle. Really surprised since it didn't have anything on the surface other than what looked like globs of protein.

Anyone else seeing this on theirs? Since there's Brett and lacto it doesn't surprise me all that much, but still my first pellicle so it threw me off.

 

[Gus_13]

I checked on my batch with 3203 yesterday and found this pellicle. Really surprised since it didn't have anything on the surface other than what looked like globs of protein.

Anyone else seeing this on theirs? Since there's Brett and lacto it doesn't surprise me all that much, but still my first pellicle so it threw me off.

Edit: doesn't look like mold after I pulled it up on my iPad. Disregard my comment.

Santé!

Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[gometz]

Edit: doesn't look like mold after I pulled it up on my iPad. Disregard my comment.

Santé!

Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

One thing that worries me is that most pellicle I've seen don't have those little white bead like things. Smells sour, not bad.

 

[Gus_13]

One thing that worries me is that most pellicle I've seen don't have those little white bead like things. Smells sour, not bad.

Every pellicle is a different animal. I've seen some little white beads before so I wouldn't worry about that. Lacto makes some ugly science fiction looking pellicles sometimes.


Santé!

Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[gometz]

Thanks for the response. I guess it makes sense that there's oxygen in the carboy since I take a sample almost weekly (a little over excited on this beer).