Wyeast PC July -Sept 2014 - Sourpalooza

[microbusbrewery]

Hopefully this hasn't already been posted, but I just saw on Wyeast's site that they're going to have a nice offering of sour options for the summer. https://www.wyeastlab.com/vssprogram.cfm?website=2

Wyeast 3203-PC De Bom Sour Blend™

Wyeast 3209-PC Oud Bruin Blend™

Wyeast 5223-PC Lactobacillus brevis

 

[hirschb]

Very odd instructions/description for 3202-PC :

Beer Styles: Lambic, Geuze, Flanders Red Ale, American Sour Ale
Profile: Wyeast’s QC Manager and World’s Tallest Microbiologist Greg Doss developed De Bom to create authentic Old- and New-World sour ale profiles but in a fraction of the time required by previous, less manly cultures. For best results, we recommend the following: no O2/aeration at beginning of fermentation; periodic dosing with O2 during fermentation to stimulate ethyl acetate production; frequent sampling to monitor development and complexity. Under optimum conditions, beers can be ready for consumption in 1-2 months.
Alc. Tolerance 10% ABV
Flocculation variable
Attenuation 75-85%
Temp. Range 80-85°F (26-29°C)

I wonder why no oxygen at start of fermentation?
Also, sours in 1-2 months!?!?
Fermentation temps of 80-85F! (which would work great here in FL).

 

[GuldTuborg]

It must have a very large percentage of lacto in that pack.

 

[sweetcell]

Very odd instructions/description for 3202-PC :

3203

i imagine it has a fast-acting lacto, a la Jolly Pumpkin or Cascade. i've had JP dregs create sourness in a month.

 

[IslandLizard]

Very odd instructions/description for 3202-PC :

[...] World’s Tallest Microbiologist Greg Doss developed De Bom [...]

I got worried there a little, but as long as he's tall it must be good!

I'll likely order all 3 and start cracking on those sours finally. In a year or 2 we'll know how good they really are.

 

[TNGabe]

Lacto looks interesting, but I think wyeast's normal strain is more hop tolerant than credited, or at least it can develop hop tolerance.

On the downside, this is when they're supposed to release 3726!

 

[Fermented_minds]

On the downside, this is when they're supposed to release 3726!

If you want a good Farmhouse style yeast, I've read nothing but amazing reviews about The Yeast Bay's Wallonian Farmhouse. I've used it myself with great results. Even got some airtime at NHC this year in Nathan Smith's talk about new hop varieties:

http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/lets-brew/resources/conference-seminars/

If you're a member of the AHA, you can check it out.

 

[MileHighBrewer]

Love what's coming out, sad there's no 3725. Love that fantome yeast

 

[MileHighBrewer]

I have a theory, that the oxygen additions, might be semi simulating open fermentation....like jp, logsdon, and upright are doing

 

[FredTheNuke]

It would be awesome if a beer like La Folie or The Bruery Oude Tart was ready in 2 months... We can only dream on that.


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[dantheman13]

I have a theory, that the oxygen additions, might be semi simulating open fermentation....like jp, logsdon, and upright are doing

Aren't these only exposed to air for the first 24 hours? I could be wrong, I don't know much about their processes.

 

[Gol_Deagle]

I think the no 02 in the beginning is to promote sourness from the lacto before the Brett and/or saccromyces can ferment (produce alcohol) which will inhibit lacto. Also Brett produces ethyl acetate in the presence of oxygen.


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[MileHighBrewer]

Aren't these only exposed to air for the first 24 hours? I could be wrong, I don't know much about their processes.

I think that's for spontaneous fermentation, cooled overnight naturally then pumped into oak. I believe for open fermentation after cooling as normal, pitch yeast, then you allow primary to complete exposed and transfer to secondary for bulk aging. It's key to have a large, vigorous starter, at pro level or maybe higher cell counts to insures fast start

 

[pegasus_brew]

Maybe there's no pedio in 3203? Doesn't pedio kick out a bunch of diacetyl? So if there were a fast acting laco ala Cascade and no pedio to kick out a bunch of diacetyl, you could probably kick out a sour that's ready to package in a few months. Obviously you miss out on the character you would get from brett chewing on the diacetyl, but it sounds like an interesting way to crank out a quick sour. Am I off base here?

 

[sweetcell]

Maybe there's no pedio in 3203? Doesn't pedio kick out a bunch of diacetyl? So if there were a fast acting laco ala Cascade and no pedio to kick out a bunch of diacetyl, you could probably kick out a sour that's ready to package in a few months. Obviously you miss out on the character you would get from brett chewing on the diacetyl, but it sounds like an interesting way to crank out a quick sour. Am I off base here?

Nope, sounds about right to me.

 

[FredTheNuke]

that or at least a good blending base. I'm game to try. what sucks is bugs are difficult to plate in the proper proportions so if this thing is only available from July-Sept it may be tough to get if we get hooked on it.... Heck - maybe the cake will support four or five good and zippy batches.

 

[MileHighBrewer]

I am thinking this might be focused on a cascade-esque beer, sacch and lacto, clean lactic sour without brett (even though people have found brett in cascade before, likely from fruit).

Or perhaps they are intending people to do berliners wi this?

Who knows, i already reserved two of these at the lhbs so i will know soon enough!

Man, between several shipments of ecy, gigayeast kicking out several blends, and now wyeast PLUS all my usual bag of sour tricks....im going to have 75-100 gallons of buggy beer brewing. Already have nearly 40 as it is >.<

Eta - crap i also forgot about pitching on all my current cakes too

 

[pegasus_brew]

I am thinking this might be focused on a cascade-esque beer, sacch and lacto, clean lactic sour without brett (even though people have found brett in cascade before, likely from fruit).

Or perhaps they are intending people to do berliners wi this?

Who knows, i already reserved two of these at the lhbs so i will know soon enough!

Man, between several shipments of ecy, gigayeast kicking out several blends, and now wyeast PLUS all my usual bag of sour tricks....im going to have 75-100 gallons of buggy beer brewing. Already have nearly 40 as it is >.<

Eta - crap i also forgot about pitching on all my current cakes too

I can't wait until the day that I have this many beers aging at once. I really don't have a whole lot of desire to brew clean beers lately, so I'm sure it won't be long.

 

[grittanomyces]

Very excited about the De Bom yeast. 1-2 months and ferments at 80-85 during these hot GA summer months where it's tough to keep the house under 75, sign me up!!

Will be nice to brew with something besides saison or the very forgiving dry 97 all summer.

 

[lawbadger]

For those interested in the De Bom Sour Blend, I emailed Wyeast to get more info and got the following response -

The 3203-PC De Bom Sour Blend does not contain Pediococcus. It contains a strain of Lactobacillus, Brettanomyces and Saccharomyces cerevisiae. Though the Lactobacillus in the blend is more hop tolerant that our 5335, I would keep the Bus at or below 15.

Hope this helps!

 

[MileHighBrewer]

Really wonder if it's a freak lacto from the Pacific northwest.....

 

[Fermented_minds]

Really wonder if it's a freak lacto from the Pacific northwest.....

I bet it's just the Lactobacillus brevis they are also offering.


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[GuldTuborg]

Any details on the Oud Bruin blend? Is it safe to assume it's a heavy lacto blend with some sacch to finish up (being how it keeps the malt accentuating characteristics)? That seems to be the trend with these, as I suspected.

 

[MileHighBrewer]

All i know is that mine arrived yesterday at the lhbs! Picking them up today

 

[globe]

Is 3203 designed to ferment out by itself or do you need to use a normal yeast first?

 

[hirschb]

Is 3203 designed to ferment out by itself or do you need to use a normal yeast first?

Ferment out by itself. My Lambic-esque with 3203 started showing a nice krausen within 2 days, with no aeration of the wort before pitching.

 

[Oaked]

I hope to have some more data for you folks in +6 weeks on the De Bom.

On Sat (7/12) I whipped up 5 gallons of 1040 pale wort:

70% Two row pale
15% Munich
15% Malted wheat

1/2 oz Bobek (IBU < 8)

It probably got significant aeration when I poured the wort into the carboy...no additional though.

I noticed a lacto "blob" on top within 8 hours. Within 24 hours a "standard" brett/sacc krausen. No interesting aromas to note. Larger bubbles in the krausen. The morning of 7/14 the krausen was climbing pretty high- I took off the air lock and gave it a good swirl. I did the same today. I swear I'm smelling some acid and some fruity esters.

Anyone planning a saison w/ the 3209?

 

[MileHighBrewer]

Excellent! I'm going to pitch mine this weekend. Probably a Vienna base with wheat and strisselspelt since I have a pound. Or choice debittered, also have a pound

 

[MileHighBrewer]

Sweet jebus that brevis was expensive!! Still not sure what I'm doing with it. Think I'm leaning towards dosing the lacto for 1-2 days and pitching clean yeast, with fruit down the line ala cascade

 

[metic]

Has anyone brewed with the Oud Bruin blend yet? I emailed Wyeast about fermentation temperatures, and they advised pitching at 80. They assured me that the yeast would be quite clean at these temps, but I'm still worried about ending up with a hot fusel-filled mess if I start that high. Even when I let saisons get up into this range, I usually pitch them at a lower temperature. So I'm interested to hear other people's results. (I understand that the high temperature is to encourage the lactobacillus, its the yeast I am worried about.)