Wyeast 3711 French Saison

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I brewed up Northern Brewers Ares Biere de Mars kit the other day and its bubbling away with 3711 steadily fermenting still 5 days later. I haven't taken a gravity reading, but I'm sure it's getting down pretty low. And it's sitting at a steady 62° F in a still chilly Michigan basement. I'll try to remember to report back on flavor profile after its finished.

 

[rhys333]

I know 3711 doesn't typically throw banana and stone fruit notes... does anyone have a similar experience? Might it be possible that the dark grains and candi syrup (D-90 for the dubbel and D-180 for the quad) allow the yeast to create different esters/phenols than it does with lighter grain bills?

I only ever get the banana/stonefruit combo when I use 3711, never citrus and spice. I wish I did, because I find the flavor almost objectionable. Not sure why I only get banana/stonefruit, but it may be down to pitching rate or fermentor dimensions.

 

[Kiknjville]

Just took a reading after 10 days of fermenting. Started at 1.048, ended at 1.001. I added sugar due to not finding this thread until post brew. Started at 68 and very slowly moved to 74. I'm not a big Belgian fan and I don't know what possessed me to make this but... I cannot freakin wait to carbonate this and drink it. It's refreshing, citrusy, not too much of the spicy Belgian character, but enough to complement the bright citrus notes. I'm a fan.

 

[rhys333]

Just took a reading after 10 days of fermenting. Started at 1.048, ended at 1.001. I added sugar due to not finding this thread until post brew. Started at 68 and very slowly moved to 74. I'm not a big Belgian fan and I don't know what possessed me to make this but... I cannot freakin wait to carbonate this and drink it. It's refreshing, citrusy, not too much of the spicy Belgian character, but enough to complement the bright citrus notes. I'm a fan.

You'll be fine with the sugar addition. 3711 tends to come across as having a full mouthfeel due to yeast byproducts, despite finishing low. Sugar is actually still a good idea to help increase the perceived dryness.

 

[m00ps]

I know 3711 doesn't typically throw banana and stone fruit notes... does anyone have a similar experience? Might it be possible that the dark grains and candi syrup (D-90 for the dubbel and D-180 for the quad) allow the yeast to create different esters/phenols than it does with lighter grain bills?

I have a good deal of experience with this yeast. Ive found there are a couple saison strains that can produce bubblegum/banana/clove hefe-like flavors before they are allowed to condition and mature. For me, this ages out in a month or so about every time.

 

[Kiichi]

After 2w in the bottle I can present first notes on the recent IPA I brewed with this yeast. Grain bill included 20% wheat, 5% carapils, 4% unmalted wheat, and 3% crystal. Hops were mostly Mandarina Bavaria with a little bit of Simcoe and Nugget (from Spain).

While it finished at 1.004 (8,2% ABV, 94% attenuation) and is very dry indeed, it does retain a lot of mouthfeel. Quite immense for what it is actually. The grainbill has influence too of course, but my mash on this system is bad, so less than effect than you´d think.

In terms of flavor the yeast has provided a good chunk of lemony citrus that complements the Mandarina Bavaria well, which has a heavy sweet candy tendency to it for all of the niceness it provides.

In short: Dry, good mouthfeel, citrus.

Will update once fully ready, which I recon will be in another week.

Makes me think I want to do a pale ale with a mixed culture fermentation of English ale yeast and this. Use German hops like Mandarina or Huell Melon and brighten them up with something like Amarillo and this yeast.

 

[Queequeg]

Just brewed a saison yesterday with 90% pilsner, 5% wheat and 5% sugar. I pitched 2 mini starters, 3711 and whitelabs kolsch. Its currently fermenting at 16.5°C

I am hoping for a very muted saison character.

I used magnum to bitter and soraci ace for flavour/aroma

 

[xico]

Just brewed a saison yesterday with 90% pilsner, 5% wheat and 5% sugar. I pitched 2 mini starters, 3711 and whitelabs kolsch. Its currently fermenting at 16.5°C

I am hoping for a very muted saison character.

I used magnum to bitter and soraci ace for flavour/aroma

I've made restrained saisons with this yeast at temps between 18 and 19°C (64.4 °F and 66.2 °F). Please follow up and let us know how it goes, attenuation, days to finish out, so on. I've been worried of going too low on account of difficulties with Wyeast's Belgian Saison that will stall in fermentation when I go below 20°C.

 

[bobo31]

I brewed a hoppy saison with this yeast a few days ago. I used a fair amount of Amarillo and Fuggles. Its been fermenting in the low to mid 70's. Only time will tell.

 

[Queequeg]

Yep will report back

 

[Queequeg]

As promised.

Its day 6 of my WLP029 and WY3711 mixed fermentation at 16.5C (62F). Gravity reads 1.004, target was 1.005. So 3711 was completely unaffected by the low temperature.

Initial tasting is good, very restrained Saison character. Plenty of lemon citrus from the Sorachi Ace. A slight Kolsch quality to the beer, but that might be because I know that was the other yeast or it could be the malt bill was 90% pilsner

Upping the temperature to 21C (70F) probably unnecessary but I want to make sure I clean up any potential diaceytal and make sure its fully attenuated.

3711 is an epic yeast. (it is worth noting that WLP029 would have got it to 1.006 anyway)

 

[tellyho]

My experience is that 3711 fermented at 62F gives Hefeweizen-style flavor notes. You need to go above 70F to get the spicy Belgian aspect of this yeast. Just depends what you want the beer to taste like.

 

[Queequeg]

The sample I pulled on Saturday had is fair share of spice, it did indeed have a hef quality to it but it wasn't excessive, less than a previous fermentation done 1-2 C higher

 

[ThatVideoKid]

Just finishing up a session saison made of 40% wheat, 40% pale and 20% flaked wheat. Took it from 1.038 to 1.005, was hoping for a little lower. It hung out at around 65-70 ambient. Tasted yesterday and it has a fantastic spice profile, only a little bit of citrus. The mouthfeel wasn't too light, I think this yeast makes some proteins that aid that.

This is my first beer that I loved at the hydro sample. I think I'm going to wash this and pitch a healthy jar into something more moderate, 7% or so. Then use that whole cake to attempt a super saison at around 10-12%(maybe even higher?) for the fall. Does anyone have any advice on going big with this yeast? I want to make sure this still comes in below 1.010. I haven't attempted anything big before but I figured a big saison would be easier than a RIS or a BW.

 

[m00ps]

Just finishing up a session saison made of 40% wheat, 40% pale and 20% flaked wheat. Took it from 1.038 to 1.005, was hoping for a little lower. It hung out at around 65-70 ambient. Tasted yesterday and it has a fantastic spice profile, only a little bit of citrus. The mouthfeel wasn't too light, I think this yeast makes some proteins that aid that.

This is my first beer that I loved at the hydro sample. I think I'm going to wash this and pitch a healthy jar into something more moderate, 7% or so. Then use that whole cake to attempt a super saison at around 10-12%(maybe even higher?) for the fall. Does anyone have any advice on going big with this yeast? I want to make sure this still comes in below 1.010. I haven't attempted anything big before but I figured a big saison would be easier than a RIS or a BW.

Just be sure you include some amount of sugar to prevent it from finishing unstylistically sweet. Im not sure when the yeast will have had it, but I would definitely recommend that if you want to be under 1.010 and keep the flaked wheat

 

[ThatVideoKid]

Just be sure you include some amount of sugar to prevent it from finishing unstylistically sweet. Im not sure when the yeast will have had it, but I would definitely recommend that if you want to be under 1.010 and keep the flaked wheat

Okay, the mid-range saison is going to be a smash of pils and Strissellspalt. Depending how I like this session saison, I will probably just scale up that same recipe to 10%, and add sugar to bring me up the rest of the way. I may sub in a pound or so of rye too. I don't have a great way of introducing oxygen, but oxygen is mostly for reproduction, right? I plan to set this thing in my old stone basement(57-60 ambient) and wrapping it up after day 2 so it can free-rise nice into the 70s.

 

[DrWill]

Once again, I've made a saison (this time a rye saison made from extract to save time) with 3711 and it dropped 10°P with no problem at all. Just threw it on a keg and will report back in a day or two.

 

[m00ps]

Okay, the mid-range saison is going to be a smash of pils and Strissellspalt. Depending how I like this session saison, I will probably just scale up that same recipe to 10%, and add sugar to bring me up the rest of the way. I may sub in a pound or so of rye too. I don't have a great way of introducing oxygen, but oxygen is mostly for reproduction, right? I plan to set this thing in my old stone basement(57-60 ambient) and wrapping it up after day 2 so it can free-rise nice into the 70s.

Yeah oxygenation is only important at the start of fermentation and IME, you can do a decent job with vigorous shaking at a 5-6gal level.

If you basement is still 60F, I would move it to room temps once you notice activity. 60F is too low for saison yeasts. Even if they do work a that temp, theyll get better performance and better yeast character higher

 

[DrWill]

If you basement is still 60F, I would move it to room temps once you notice activity. 60F is too low for saison yeasts. Even if they do work a that temp, theyll get better performance and better yeast character higher

I second this. My most recent batch with this yeast was fermented around 18°C (65°F) and whilst it still fermented out beautifully I didn't get the pronounced yeast derived character, but rather a much cleaner brew.

 

[govner1]

I second this. My most recent batch with this yeast was fermented around 18°C (65°F) and whilst it still fermented out beautifully I didn't get the pronounced yeast derived character, but rather a much cleaner brew.

I usually start Saisons at 68°+ and let them rise as high as 80°+. This will give you more of the estery/Belgian character. I've used 3711, 3724, Belle Saoson, etc, all with great outcomes.

 

[Kiichi]

I am soon gonna put this one to the test and start it around 22 C, raise it to ca. 26 C. Really I am looking to get some character beyond additions.Bloody yeast works, but is too clean..so far.

 

[govner1]

Why too clean? Are you referring to flavor or clarity?

 

[sweetcell]

Why too clean? Are you referring to flavor or clarity?

in my opinion, it is flavor. 3711 produces a very dry beer and great mouthfeel, but the flavor is lacking. for my tastes, a 3711-only saison is boring. i use another yeast for flavor (like 3724) and then use 3711 to finish up and dry out the beer.

i was once asked to brew beers for a party where most of the attendees were not craft beer drinkers but had some interest in it. i made a low-hop APA and a 3711 (only) saison. they served their functions as "intro beers" quite well.

 

[Mainer]

in my opinion, it is flavor. 3711 produces a very dry beer and great mouthfeel, but the flavor is lacking. for my tastes, a 3711-only saison is boring. i use another yeast for flavor (like 3724) and then use 3711 to finish up and dry out the beer.

i was once asked to brew beers for a party where most of the attendees were not craft beer drinkers but had some interest in it. i made a low-hop APA and a 3711 (only) saison. they served their functions as "intro beers" quite well.

I've heard that a higher fermentation temp (even above the manufacturer's recommended range) will give you more variation in the fruity esters produced, and thus a more complex flavor profile. I'm going to brew my first 3711 saison in a couple weeks, so I'd appreciate hearing other people's experience as to whether that's true.

EDIT: Yeah, okay, I just realized that the whole entire bloody thread is people's experience as to whether that's true. Gonna go do some reading now...

 

[BaylessBrewer]

Just pitched 3711 in a Kama Citra Kit I got from northern Brewer yesterday.
A few notes;

1) Added 1lb flaked wheat
2) mashed at 150. OG was 1.062
3( not going to dry hop this one. Hop schedule as follows, .5oz centennial 20min, 1oz cascade 15min, 1oz cascade 10min, .5oz centennial 5min, flame out and lower temp to 160 with IC added 3oz Citra and 1oz cascade
4) ground water only allowed for me to get temp down to 72. I'm impatient so I called it good and pitched a 1500ml starter. 24hrs later and we have a good krausen forming and temp is up to 74. I wrapped it with a fleece blanket just now and will leave it alone.
Fingers crossed it comes out drinkable [emoji2]

 

[Mainer]

Just pitched 3711 in a Kama Citra Kit I got from northern Brewer yesterday.
A few notes;

1) Added 1lb flaked wheat
2) mashed at 150. OG was 1.062
3( not going to dry hop this one. Hop schedule as follows, .5oz centennial 20min, 1oz cascade 15min, 1oz cascade 10min, .5oz centennial 5min, flame out and lower temp to 160 with IC added 3oz Citra and 1oz cascade
4) ground water only allowed for me to get temp down to 72. I'm impatient so I called it good and pitched a 1500ml starter. 24hrs later and we have a good krausen forming and temp is up to 74. I wrapped it with a fleece blanket just now and will leave it alone.
Fingers crossed it comes out drinkable [emoji2]

Sounds similar to an Apex Predator clone I brewed this weekend with 3711. 9 Lb Belgian Pils, a pound of flaked wheat, and half a pound of honey malt. Mashed at ~150, OG at 1.052. 1oz Crystal @60, 1 oz Crystal @ 15, 2 oz Crystal @ flameout, 1 oz Sterling @ Flameout. Pitched at 80, and has come down to about 75.

 

[BaylessBrewer]

Sounds similar to an Apex Predator clone I brewed this weekend with 3711. 9 Lb Belgian Pils, a pound of flaked wheat, and half a pound of honey malt. Mashed at ~150, OG at 1.052. 1oz Crystal @60, 1 oz Crystal @ 15, 2 oz Crystal @ flameout, 1 oz Sterling @ Flameout. Pitched at 80, and has come down to about 75.

Sounds good! I've not had that one. Who brews it?

 

[Mainer]

Off-Color brewing out of Chicago.
http://www.offcolorbrewing.com/beer/

And here's the clone recipe I used:
http://www.brewunited.com/view_recipe.php?recipeid=32

 

[BaylessBrewer]

Off-Color brewing out of Chicago.
http://www.offcolorbrewing.com/beer/

And here's the clone recipe I used:
http://www.brewunited.com/view_recipe.php?recipeid=32

Looks like a good beer. Too bad they don't distribute to St.Louis.[emoji25] I'd like to try it

 

[beerlover77]

Just pitched 3711 in a Kama Citra Kit I got from northern Brewer yesterday.
A few notes;

1) Added 1lb flaked wheat
2) mashed at 150. OG was 1.062
3( not going to dry hop this one. Hop schedule as follows, .5oz centennial 20min, 1oz cascade 15min, 1oz cascade 10min, .5oz centennial 5min, flame out and lower temp to 160 with IC added 3oz Citra and 1oz cascade
4) ground water only allowed for me to get temp down to 72. I'm impatient so I called it good and pitched a 1500ml starter. 24hrs later and we have a good krausen forming and temp is up to 74. I wrapped it with a fleece blanket just now and will leave it alone.
Fingers crossed it comes out drinkable [emoji2]

I just did a saison using 3711
mashed at 154 degrees and the final gravity was 1.002

If you mashed at 150, you may be ending up with a very dry beer!