Wyeast 3711 French Saison

[SaguaroMan]

I wonder if those lemon drop hops would be a sub for the sorachi. I recently had Brooklyns sorachi ace and dill might be an excellent way of putting it. In fact I'm not sure how much lemon I even got from it at all.

I did get some lemon, but I used some bitter orange peel as well so I'm sure that helped bring it out. That dill flavor is still there; not too forward but enough to know I don't like it LoL. I also dry hopped with it and Motueka... probably just going to use Motueka or Mandarina Bavaria exclusively next time.

 

[SaguaroMan]

Sorachi Ace is hard to use right so you don´t get the dill. I somehow managed to not get it, but I too will use another hop next time. Since I will do another green tea and citrus fruit (zest) one with this yeast I will use some hop that delivers some tropical citrus fruit character to give it more depth.

Lemon zest certainly goes really well with this yeast, so using that is a great idea. Then maybe even citra or cascade for just that bit of dimension.

Well I've still got about 5 ounces of Sorachi in the freezer so I'll maybe use half of what I used this last time. I can see Citra, Cascade or even just about any New Zealand hops going well with it too.

Green tea and citrus sounds interesting, the earthiness of green tea would go well with the yeast. How much tea would you use, and when? Late kettle addition or in the fermenter to dry hop(tea)?

 

[Kiichi]

Well I've still got about 5 ounces of Sorachi in the freezer so I'll maybe use half of what I used this last time. I can see Citra, Cascade or even just about any New Zealand hops going well with it too.

Green tea and citrus sounds interesting, the earthiness of green tea would go well with the yeast. How much tea would you use, and when? Late kettle addition or in the fermenter to dry hop(tea)?

I used the Sorachi for bittering and hopstand only, which may, or may not, have reduced the dill. I gave it to some people who are very hesitant about Sorachi and got no complaints even though the hopstand was over 2oz strong.

I added the green tea in two stages to get maximum detail and adjustment: Firstly 25g brewed with 1L water at 60 Celsius for 3min to get complex flavor without tannins. This is the lowest usually used temperature. This was added straight to primary with the wort transfer.
Secondly I had another 25g which is coated in 4cl Vodka to desinfect and pre-extract. Let it sit for a day before dry-tea-ing in secondary, tasting in 6h intervalls until it felt right (did not take long, this was really just the finishing touch for me).
It did loose a bit of intensity since then, but is still nicely present within the whole picture without overtaking, though some people noted it was a tad too much for them.
I used Cannonball, which is rather robust, and will keep the amount for next time, but use a lighter, more flowery tea.

 

[madscientistbrewNq]

Well 2 weeks later and I'm a bit surprised. The yeast only attentuated from 1.062 to 1.009. I tasted it and I mostly fermented at around 70 the first week and 72 for the second week. Interestingly I got some phenols from it. The nose is very much saison like. The sample was dry and due to barely any hop additions a touch boozy. Also the rye I used seems to definitely come out. Well I'm cold crashing and trying to get all the yeast rafts to drop. I will then transfer next week over 5-7.5 lbs of pasteurized strawberry puree. Figured I would let it sit on top for 2 weeks. On the second week I'm going to toss 1.5 oz of nelson and 0.5 oz of amarillo and see what happens.

 

[rhys333]

Well 2 weeks later and I'm a bit surprised. The yeast only attentuated from 1.062 to 1.009. I tasted it and I mostly fermented at around 70 the first week and 72 for the second week. Interestingly I got some phenols from it. The nose is very much saison like. The sample was dry and due to barely any hop additions a touch boozy. Also the rye I used seems to definitely come out. Well I'm cold crashing and trying to get all the yeast rafts to drop. I will then transfer next week over 5-7.5 lbs of pasteurized strawberry puree. Figured I would let it sit on top for 2 weeks. On the second week I'm going to toss 1.5 oz of nelson and 0.5 oz of amarillo and see what happens.

I'd be tempted to leave it a 3rd week at room temp to make sure it's done and give the yeast time to clean up that booziness. You may stay at the 85% attenuation, but it might drop another point or two yet. Mine went from 1.048 - 1.005 (89% attn), following this advice from others on here.

 

[madscientistbrewNq]

I usually leave the beers alone for 3 weeks but I decided to cold crash because I wanted to secondary the saison which I've not done before either... can anybody comment on leaving the beer over the yeast cake for 4 weeks total?

 

[rhys333]

Four weeks in primary should be no problem. Just don't open to the top and let any air in.

 

[m00ps]

4 weeks wont hurt it. Every beer I've made with 3711 has been fully attenuated by day 10 though. I give it another week to clean up but 4 weeks wouldnt make it bad or anything...be sure to let it warm up a bit near the end

 

[edroberts]

Sometimes 3711 will stall if the temp drops. If you ramp temps up into the mid 70s to even near 80 it will eat through everything.

 

[Malty_Dog]

Split a batch of saison between 3711 and Ommegang's Hennepin yeast. 3711 ripped a 1.064 down to 1.001 at 68F, Ommegang appears done at 1.005 (at 75F). This is 2 weeks in, hydro samples were both wonderful, but I preferred the 3711. Had that estery, peppery quality I was in search of. The Hennepin yeast is great too, saison-ish for sure, but a bit more restrained.

 

[madscientistbrewNq]

Yeah I didn't let it get over 72 in the ferm cabinet. I'm guessing I should have. It definitely took off like a mad man but by day 7 or so it came to a screaming hault. I bumped it from 70 to 72 and it barely did anything. So I left it alone and took my reading at day 14 and was like darn it I thought I'd be near 1.000 given the experience from a lot of you guys. Like I said it was a little boozy at around 6.7% for me and the wife agreed. So its probably not a bad thing that it didn't attenuate all the way down. 7.9% could have been dangerous....

Interestingly I did hit my numbers overall as I was projecting at around 6.6% and I got really decent efficiency at 83%. I'm by no means a saison die hard, but I do like them and thought I would try my hand at one anyway.

For those bottling, what are you carbing at? I was thinking 2.7 vols.

BTW thanks for the responses. I will be dry hopping/sitting the beer over fruit so it may make sense for me to bump to 75 or so just to make sure I don't still have activity. I suspect I will cold crash a second time to get the hop matter as well as any fruit matter out of solution.

 

[LostBoyScout]

For those bottling, what are you carbing at? I was thinking 2.7 vols.

Bottled my 3711 saison at 2.6 and that worked well, lots of carb (you'd get much more head than liquid if you weren't very careful). i think i'd go 2.5 to 2.6 in the future again

 

[madscientistbrewNq]

So I transferred the beer off of the yeast cake on Sunday and placed it over a pasteurized strawberry puree. On Monday night I started freaking out when reading about pasteurized purees and infections so I thought well... Lets dry hop it. So I went with 0.5 oz of amarillo and 1.5 oz of nelson. Fast forward approximately 3 days now we have full blown fermentation again. Note the beer was on the yeast cake for 3 weeks and I was complaining I didn't get the attentuation I wanted .... I mean I started at 1.06 and ended at....... 1.009. Any possible way that the fresh pasteurized strawberry puree kicked off some fermentation. I honestly do not think this is just CO2 coming off. Any thoughts? I was going to let the beer sit on the puree and hops for another 6 days before cold crashing for probably 3 days to try to clear it up and then bottle. I mean it could be the start of an infection but I had the abv at around 6.7%. Thoroughly perplexed by this...

 

[DrWill]

Yes, you just dumped a bunch of sugar in so it is likely that your yeast woke up and are going to town. If you've been careful it's probably not an infection; likely your original strain is just excited by the influx of sugar.

 

[rhys333]

So I transferred the beer off of the yeast cake on Sunday and placed it over a pasteurized strawberry puree. On Monday night I started freaking out when reading about pasteurized purees and infections so I thought well... Lets dry hop it. So I went with 0.5 oz of amarillo and 1.5 oz of nelson. Fast forward approximately 3 days now we have full blown fermentation again. Note the beer was on the yeast cake for 3 weeks and I was complaining I didn't get the attentuation I wanted .... I mean I started at 1.06 and ended at....... 1.009. Any possible way that the fresh pasteurized strawberry puree kicked off some fermentation. I honestly do not think this is just CO2 coming off. Any thoughts? I was going to let the beer sit on the puree and hops for another 6 days before cold crashing for probably 3 days to try to clear it up and then bottle. I mean it could be the start of an infection but I had the abv at around 6.7%. Thoroughly perplexed by this...

Its fermenting again because of the fruit sugars you added. Also, if your temperature is higher now than it was before this could also be playing a part.

 

[madscientistbrewNq]

Thanks for answering what was likely a stupid question. I just wasn't expecting it to kick off as I thought possibly adding the fruit at the completion of most fermenting i.e. 3 weeks that the natural sugars from the strawberries may not actually trigger anything. Now the darn hops I used will probably get mostly blown off. In terms of temps, its actually at the ambient temps in my basement. The fermentation has actually increased the temps a bit and I suspect 8 lbs over 5 gallons will be the culprit. My stout is sitting steady at 63 over vanilla beans and cocoa meanwhile the saison is around 65 now.

 

[rhys333]

Deleting saison recipe. Reposting in recipe forum

 

[Brettomomyces]

Just used this yeast for the first time in a pretty simple grainbill, 80% pils 20% white wheat, with all citra. Started at 1.063 and chewed it's way down to 1.004 in 11 days after bringing the temp up to 85F. This yeast just chugs along, I've never seen airlock activity that consistent for a whole week.

The citra is wonderful with it; awesome tropical fruit and pineapple notes. It's getting dry hopped with a little more citra and then getting tapped next week.

Now I just have to find another beer to make with my yeast cake

 

[madscientistbrewNq]

So I finally popped one of the strawberry saisons. I was pretty disappointed. The beer has a touch of rubbing alcohol smell and definitely taste. I'm assuming these are fusels but I suppose the question might stand to reason- the beer couldn't just be green could it? I kept the beer in my ferm cabinets for primary fermentation: 70 degrees x 2 days, 73 degrees x7 days, 71 degrees for 3 days, followed by 5 days cold crash. I then transferred to a secondary over 7.5 lbs of pasteurized strawberry puree plus Nelson and Amarillo and let sit at my basements ambient temps i.e. 66 degrees. After 1 week I chose to add liquid pectin enzyme to clarify (which worked extremely well) and cold crashed again for about 5week. I then bottled to 2.4 vol and let go for two weeks. I popped a prechilled bottle last night and arrived that the beer had a acetone like property to it (wife agreed). Now admittedly I do not have a thermowell so I'm operating off of an STC where the probe is in a white labs vial full of water and I also have the old stick on thermometers for the carboys. Although I may have needed to accept a certain degree of variability I'm fairly confident that I did not ferment this beer to hot... I may have underpitched OG was 1.060 and I only tossed one packet no starter, but the yeast shot off within 16 hrs and seemed pretty happy throughout the fermentation. I did add nutrients to the wort with 15 minutes left in the boil. Also gave the yeast some amber candi sugar (8 oz) to chew on as well.

F.G was 1.010 with an EST ABV of 6.6%, any ideas. Something tells me this will be a brew that I have to age and even then from what I read if there are fusels I will not get much improvement. With any of you that brewed with this yeast, did you have to bottle condition your saison for a while for it to really improve or was it really drinkable right out the gates....?

 

[m00ps]

Every time I've used this yeast its basically ready to go as soon as it carbs up. Comes into its prime after a month or so, but no off flavors. I usually ferment it past 90F with no fusel alcohol character

 

[Happywanderer]

Just bottled a Saison brewed with this yeast. Pretty darn amazing stuff. OG was 1.062 and FG was 1.003. Imagine my surprise! I was expecting 1.011.

I did add a pound of honey as a flameout addition and knew that would bring it down a bit more. But wow.

I pitched at about 82*f and let it do its thing. It slowly dropped from 82*f to 72*f over the active fermentation.

No real krausen (not like WLP 001 anyway). Had good airlock for about 5 days, then let it sit. Was in the fermenter for a total of 23 days.

Carbed up to roughly 2.6 Vols.

Can't wait to try this beauty. Sipped my sample and it tasted great. No off flavors. No fusel alcohol. No buttery flavor. Some good spicey notes.

 

[ukaH]

So I finally popped one of the strawberry saisons. I was pretty disappointed. The beer has a touch of rubbing alcohol smell and definitely taste. I'm assuming these are fusels but I suppose the question might stand to reason- the beer couldn't just be green could it? I kept the beer in my ferm cabinets for primary fermentation: 70 degrees x 2 days, 73 degrees x7 days, 71 degrees for 3 days, followed by 5 days cold crash. I then transferred to a secondary over 7.5 lbs of pasteurized strawberry puree plus Nelson and Amarillo and let sit at my basements ambient temps i.e. 66 degrees. After 1 week I chose to add liquid pectin enzyme to clarify (which worked extremely well) and cold crashed again for about 5week. I then bottled to 2.4 vol and let go for two weeks. I popped a prechilled bottle last night and arrived that the beer had a acetone like property to it (wife agreed). Now admittedly I do not have a thermowell so I'm operating off of an STC where the probe is in a white labs vial full of water and I also have the old stick on thermometers for the carboys. Although I may have needed to accept a certain degree of variability I'm fairly confident that I did not ferment this beer to hot... I may have underpitched OG was 1.060 and I only tossed one packet no starter, but the yeast shot off within 16 hrs and seemed pretty happy throughout the fermentation. I did add nutrients to the wort with 15 minutes left in the boil. Also gave the yeast some amber candi sugar (8 oz) to chew on as well.

F.G was 1.010 with an EST ABV of 6.6%, any ideas. Something tells me this will be a brew that I have to age and even then from what I read if there are fusels I will not get much improvement. With any of you that brewed with this yeast, did you have to bottle condition your saison for a while for it to really improve or was it really drinkable right out the gates....?

Anytime I've used strawberries in beer, or tasted a beer with strawberries in it, I usually pick up those off flavors. My guess is it's the strawberries, not sure if it will get better with conditioning. Every time I use 3711, it goes into the keg after 3 weeks and is fine as soon as it is carbed.

 

[madscientistbrewNq]

Well thanks guys, I suppose I need to research how fruit can produce off flavors. It would be real good if I didn't get that hint of rubbing alcohol/acetone like properties. Looks like I will be resisting the urge to play with fruit for a while.

 

[jessup]

1.088 to 1.006 after a month - 93% attentuation so far, albeit after a few stalls. also mixed a culture from saison d'erpe mere so that may have helped kick it in the arse. stalled @ 1.030 but big pitch of WY1318 helped it attentuate. serious belgian golden i was doubting the power of the 3711 for a few but time, raise in temp and a little help from some friends...

 

[Kiichi]

My latest 3711 brew, second version of green tea and citrus session, went from 1.031 to 1.002 in 10 days. Judging by airlock activity and carboy pressure it was actually just 6 or less That was with a a high mash temp and some caramalts added. Still 93% attenuation. This yeast does not cease to impress.

Hope it will be carbed in the bottle by the weekend. Saturday will be 7 days and I actually think it might be possible. Pics and report inc.

 

[rhys333]

1.088 to 1.006 after a month - 93% attentuation

You be needing a wine glass to sip on that mofo

 

[fenners]

I'm brewing with this yeast for the first time this weekend (a nice wee saison) and I typically use White Labs, not Wyeast. My OG will be about 1.065, and I'll be fermenting in the high 60s/low 70s over time. Should I bother with a starter for this 3711?

 

[ukaH]

Only do a starter if you want to save some yeast for another saison, or if you feel like cleaning up your ceiling.

 

[m00ps]

I would still do a starter. Keep the yeast happy and theyll make you a better beer. Plus, you cna harvest some yeast from the starter to use for next time

Id ferment it much warmer though. This will increase yeast character and attenuation

 

[fenners]

I would still do a starter. Keep the yeast happy and theyll make you a better beer. Plus, you cna harvest some yeast from the starter to use for next time

Id ferment it much warmer though. This will increase yeast character and attenuation

I can definitely do it warmer. It /is/ Summer in Texas after all