Wyeast 3068 Late Start

[mrcej23]

I brewed an all grain Weihenstephaner hefeweizen clone on Sunday which had an OG of 1.052 which is right around what its supposed to be. Pitching and fermentation temps correct. Made a starter earlier that day which sat for 9 or 10 hours, which I know is not long enough for a typical starter. Then I pitched it into the wort around 11:45 pm, aerating it well. So its been over 28 hours since I pitched it and I'm not seeing even the slightest hint of fermentation activity. What should I do at this point? Wait? Or pitch more yeast? Is Wyeast 3068 know to start late? The smack pack didn't expand much after activation.

 

[RM-MN]

You wait it out. It may take some time for the yeast to reproduce to get sufficient numbers to start the fermentation. If you don't see any activity by day 3, pitch a different yeast.

 

[thehaze]

You can look at it this way: you have underpitched, so it will help the yeast produce more esters and phenols, depending also a bit on your fermentation temperature.

I think it will be OK in the end. Just give it a few more hours. Are you sure that the fermenter is air-tight? Can you check if actual fermentation has started inside the fermenter, if you have one which is not transparent?

 

[eadavis80]

This is always the most anxiety inducing part of brewing for me - being concerned that your fermentation is not going to start or go well. But, I had a similar situation in which the smack pack hardly inflated and I was concerned as well. Two days later after pitching it was going fine and 6 weeks later my brother's keg was getting rave reviews. AS much as it sucks, enjoy your 4th of July and if you don't see anything by July 5, then add more yeast.

 

[cloudybrewer]

Do you know how old the smack pack was? What was the exact time frame from pulling it out of the fridge, to smacking it, to pitching it in the starter, to pitching it into the fermenter?

I'm curious because I've had a lot of trouble with this yeast and I've been studying others' results with varying processes.

 

[kh54s10]

28 hours is too early to get very concerned. Though the longest lag I ever had was about that long. Your starter was not long enough so you did underpitch. Did you use a calculator to determine the size needed, accounting for the manufacturing date of the yeast?

The usual question - if you are using a bucket, have you looked for krausen or are you looking at the airlock?

Wait. I bet it starts within the next 12 hours.

 

[eadavis80]

Pack was dated Oct. 2017. IT was Wyeast 3944, so it was a different strain. After smacking the pack showed very little signs of inflation 20 hours after smacking it. Made a 650 ML starter on 4/3/18 and the starter showed very little life the next morning, the day I brewed. I had airlock activity on 4/5/18. By 4/18/18 the beer fermented down to 1.008. The beer's OG was 1.055 and everyone ended up loving it who had it.

 

[kh54s10]

Smack Packs do not always inflate, and inflated packs before breaking the nutrient inner pack doesn't mean much of anything either. The nutrient is only to give the yeast a little boost.

 

[thehaze]

I haven't used 3068, but I have been using Danstar Munich Classic, which is the dry Weihenstephaner strain ( most probably they will not work in the same way ), and although it starts fermenting in the first 24 hours, it will first blow out my oversized airlock ( Speidel fermenter ) somewhere during day 2. But as said above, at this point, you have nothing to worry about.

Once it begins, it will take it literally just take 48 hours to reach final gravity or somewhere around there.

 

[eadavis80]

I used 3068 once and it only took a 1.044 beer down to 1.016 and it was a pretty fresh pack, but the beer was tasty, so that's all that matters I guess.

 

[cloudybrewer]

Pack was dated Oct. 2017. IT was Wyeast 3944, so it was a different strain. After smacking the pack showed very little signs of inflation 20 hours after smacking it. Made a 650 ML starter on 4/3/18 and the starter showed very little life the next morning, the day I brewed. I had airlock activity on 4/5/18. By 4/18/18 the beer fermented down to 1.008. The beer's OG was 1.055 and everyone ended up loving it who had it.

My apologies for not being specific; my questions in my first post were for the OP.

 

[mrcej23]

Well first things first — just checked on it for the first time today 5 minutes ago and things are really churning away in there. Nice head of kräusen on top. Yes I have a glass fermenter so I can see everything.

I got curious so I dug through the trash to find my smack pack. It’s dated 05Mar17. So I’m guessing that’s kinda old. To answer the question about the exact timeline of things I bought the yeast around 1:00 pm Sunday. Never put it back in a fridge after buying. Activated it as soon as i got home so maybe 1:30. Made my starter which was a half gallon starter with the appropriate amount of light Pilsner DME and let it cool. I pitched my yeast into the starter around 2 pm and shook it vigorously, swirling it every now and then throughout the day. After brewing I chilled to 70F and then pitched the yeast at around 11:45 pm. Shook the fermenter for a few minutes, set my fermenter temp to 70F and let it go.

No i did not use an online calculator for pitching rate. Last time i did that it told me to use a 2 gallon starter, which seems like a lot. It was for a high gravity stout though so I don’t know. Besides with the 0.5-0.75 gal starters I’ve been doing I’ve gotten vigorous fermentation within 12 hours of pitching, which seems good to me.

Should I be concerned about off flavors in the finished product due to underpitching, the late start, and older yeast?

 

[thehaze]

Underpitching helps with the production of esters in a Hefe, so I would not worry about that. Possible off-flavours: I really can't say. I think it will be OK.

 

[cloudybrewer]

Should I be concerned about off flavors in the finished product due to underpitching, the late start, and older yeast?

These questions are exactly why I asked about the specific timeline. I've been fighting off flavors from 3068 using most people's recommendation to under pitch. I would like to see if you do too. I'm very interested to see how yours turns out.

 

[mrcej23]

These questions are exactly why I asked about the specific timeline. I've been fighting off flavors from 3068 using most people's recommendation to under pitch. I would like to see if you do too. I'm very interested to see how yours turns out.

I’ll make sure to let you know how it turns out. What kind of off flavors are you getting? I hope it’s still at least drinkable.

 

[cloudybrewer]

I’ll make sure to let you know how it turns out. What kind of off flavors are you getting? I hope it’s still at least drinkable.

My hefes have not been drinkable, extract or all grain. The first few I made were very tart, thin, and genrally bad. But they dont count because they were my first batches and I made a lot of mistakes. Currently I have a hefewiezen in primary that has no reason to be bad, but tases like an old Busch heavy that spent a week in the car in the summer.

That being said, don't assume this will happen to you! A lot of home brewers under pitch their hefes and make good beer. The universe has chosen me to be an anomaly.

 

[mrcej23]

Hey guys I’m the op of this thread. Sorry to resurrect an old thread but I have a quick question. I pitched late last Sunday evening, fermentation began in the early hours of Tuesday morning, and now it’s still fermenting but definitely ramping down. Is this normal yeast activity? Should I change my temperature if it’s now at 70? Hefeweizen with wyeast 3068.

 

[cloudybrewer]

Hey guys I’m the op of this thread.

How is the hefe? Have you packaged it yet?

 

[mrcej23]

Its still fermenting for some reason. Its a glass fermenter and I can still see things churning around and a bubble comes through the blow off every few seconds. Doesn't seem right, but I guess all there is to do it wait it out and see how it is when its done. It has to have something to do with under pitching I would think and also the fact that the yeast pack was over a year old. Didn't look at the date till it was too late.

 

[cloudybrewer]

I had to re-read the thread to remind myself how old the yeast was. Almost 15 months old and it still had viability! This really is a great test batch.

 

[mrcej23]

So I got impatient and took a sample to check gravity and taste. It's at 1.016 when the OG was 1.052. But, again, its still fermenting without a doubt. The color when poured in a glass is a bit lighter than expected, but still pretty standard. Initial impressions of aroma were that it has that typical Weißbier smell that comes from the yeast along with a very fruity smell, almost like freshly squeezed orange juice or white grape juice. The flavor is much the same. Theres a noticeable presence of that German yeast character but also huge juicy fruit flavors. There is a subtle sourness there too...maybe slightly like a sour beer but more like a dose of citra dry hops that leaves a pungency in your mouth. It finishes a bit wheaty also. Right now theres nothing unpleasant about this beer. In fact its pretty delicious. If I'm disappointed at all its just because its not closer to a Weißbier. Hopefully nothing will impact the flavor negatively from here on out. I'm a little worried about that sour taste becoming overpowering in days/weeks to come.

 

[mrcej23]

My hefes have not been drinkable, extract or all grain. The first few I made were very tart, thin, and genrally bad. But they dont count because they were my first batches and I made a lot of mistakes. Currently I have a hefewiezen in primary that has no reason to be bad, but tases like an old Busch heavy that spent a week in the car in the summer.

That being said, don't assume this will happen to you! A lot of home brewers under pitch their hefes and make good beer. The universe has chosen me to be an anomaly.

Just realized you described some of your bad hefes as thin and tart. Thats a little how I would describe this one. Hopefully it doesn't get worse by the time its done.

 

[mrcej23]

For those of you that might be interested, this beer came out pretty decent. Very fruity and light with a slight tartness, but definitely a hefeweizen. If I had to change anything I would want a fuller body and more German yeast character. I just think its interesting that I pitched a pack of yeast that was over a year old with not much of a starter, it took the beer like 4 weeks to reach a terminal gravity, and its still a very drinkable beer.

 

[cloudybrewer]

I'm astounded you were able to get a drinkable beer from a 14 month old smack pack of 3068. Purely baffled. Your slow, lackluster fermentation sounds like what I was getting, only my hefes we're tart, almost acidic, and "swampy."

I dumped the aforementioned "abused Busch heavy" and tried again. I made a simple extract batch with DME. This time I threw the general consensus to under pitch out the window and made a 1L starter with a two month old pack of 3068. I finally got the huge krausen this yeast is known for instead of a quarter inch of bubbles. 15 day primary. It's been in the keg for 9 days now, and it's really good. Most say an over pitch will mute the yeast flavors and make the beer bland. Not the case for me! The tart and nasty flavors are gone, decent banana smell, the head is sweet and creamy, and I really like it. FINALLY

 

[mrcej23]

I'm astounded you were able to get a drinkable beer from a 14 month old smack pack of 3068. Purely baffled. Your slow, lackluster fermentation sounds like what I was getting, only my hefes we're tart, almost acidic, and "swampy."

I dumped the aforementioned "abused Busch heavy" and tried again. I made a simple extract batch with DME. This time I threw the general consensus to under pitch out the window and made a 1L starter with a two month old pack of 3068. I finally got the huge krausen this yeast is known for instead of a quarter inch of bubbles. 15 day primary. It's been in the keg for 9 days now, and it's really good. Most say an over pitch will mute the yeast flavors and make the beer bland. Not the case for me! The tart and nasty flavors are gone, decent banana smell, the head is sweet and creamy, and I really like it. FINALLY

I’m assuming the variable thatbmade your beer better was the amount of yeast pitched, not the fact that it was extract? As long as I could get the same og with all grain it’d probably end up the same?

 

[cloudybrewer]

Yes, I will be switching back to grain, too. I made the extract batch because it was less work and I just wanted to see what would happen if I made a yeast starter.

 

[kh54s10]

There is intentional under-pitching which may work, but that would be pitching a 1.5 liter starter from fresh yeast instead of 2 liters. I just ran the numbers and the OP had 1% viability from the yeast pack. A full pitch would have wanted about 190 billion cells. Even after the starter only about 21 billion cells were pitched.

Lesson if there is one: Use a calculator to determine starter size. Even if intentionally under-pitching it would force you to look at the date on the yeast package so that you can catch that you are not getting what you intended.