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[cleaner72]

Question, I recently starting brewing again and had ingredients that were a year old. The grains were sealed in a bag and stored in a closet and did not seem stale when i smelled and tasted them. I did by a new yeast pack, a wyeast smack pack, california lager. This was not my first choice but it was all the local store had.
I did a 1 liter starter for 48 hours. I brewed it in my 65l brewzilla. the original gravity was only 2 points low. after cooling down to around 90ish, i was impatient and used the pump to the wort into my catalyst fermenter. I completely forgot to aerate the wort....i did run the wort through a large hop spider to filter out most of the hot break and other sludge. would this have been enough to aerate the wort?
I have a glycol chiller and used it to chill the wort down to 68 degrees. this is when I pitched the yeast. its been 48 hours now and no activity that i can see. Just before i wrote this, I read elsewhere that this yeast should be at a lower temperature, so I turned it down to 59 degrees. Any ideas or recommendations? could the old grains be the issue?

 

[IslandLizard]

Welcome back to brewing!

I completely forgot to aerate the wort....i did run the wort through a large hop spider to filter out most of the hot break and other sludge. would this have been enough to aerate the wort?

As long as the wort was splashing into the fermenter, from a 6-12" height or more, there's would have been some aeration.
More aeration would have been better, yes.

How long did you give the starter to grow? On a stir plate? Did you see any foam developing?
How old was that pack? There's a use-by-date on it.
Was it refrigerated?

Traditional Lager yeasts are typically notoriously slow to get started in their preferred fermentation range (50-55F). But this is a "Hybrid Lager" yeast, optimized for fermenting at 58-68F. It should rock at 68F.
I would have expected for you to see some activity by now...
Do you see any foam (krausen) formation on top yet?

The older grain should be of very little concern as to fermentability, as long as you mashed in the correct temp range, 148-158F for an hour.

 

[cleaner72]

Welcome back to brewing!


As long as the wort was splashing into the fermenter, from a 6-12" height or more, there's would have been some aeration.
More aeration would have been better, yes.

How long did you give the starter to grow? On a stir plate? Did you see any foam developing?
How old was that pack? There's a use-by-date on it.
Was it refrigerated?

Traditional Lager yeasts are typically notoriously slow to get started in their preferred fermentation range (50-55F). But this is a "Hybrid Lager" yeast, optimized for fermenting at 58-68F. It should rock at 68F.
I would have expected for you to see some activity by now...
Do you see any foam (krausen) formation on top yet?

The older grain should be of very little concern as to fermentability, as long as you mashed in the correct temp range, 148-158F for an hour.

I do have a stir plate. The starter was on the stir plate for close to 48 hours. There was a nice layer of foam on top of the starter. I don't remember the date but I believe I was over 2 months from expiration date.
As for the mash, I was at 149 for 60 minutes.
Usually when the wort is fermenting I can see the particles inside kinda moving all around. There is zero movement and no krausen on top. Hopefully it's just taking its time.

 

[PCABrewing]

I brewed it in my 65l brewzilla. the original gravity was only 2 points low.

So what was the OG, two points low of 1.080 or two points low of 1.040?
I had a high gravity (1.093) batch take 3 days to start showing visible activity but it eventually took-off and made it down to 1.013.

 

[cleaner72]

So what was the OG, two points low of 1.080 or two points low of 1.040?
I had a high gravity (1.093) batch take 3 days to start showing visible activity but it eventually took-off and made it down to 1.013.

The recipe is for an American pilsner. I have brewed it several times with no issues. The OG in the recipe was 1.045 and mine was 1.043

 

[cleaner72]

Checked on it this morning ing and there is a layer of krausen on top. Must be doing something, just quietly

 

[hotbeer]

It might be shy and not want to bubble when you are watching.

Your hydrometer will tell you if it's fermenting. If the SG is falling, then it has activity. You just aren't able to see it in this case.

 

[RM-MN]

It takes a little pressure to get the airlock to bubble and once started it may release nearly all the pressure. Then it takes a while for it to build enough for the airlock to bubble again. You may be missing it.

 

[cleaner72]

Recap:
I brewed that American Pilsner. It went pretty much as planned. The OG was 1.042. The only change to the recipe was the yeast. My local only had the Wyeast California Lager in stock. I fermented this at 58 degree. It was slow to start but seems to be finished after a week.

Update:
The current reading is 1.20, way above the expected 1.09 the recipe calls for. Would the different yeast be the reason? It'd been at 1.20 for 3 days. Should I just wait another week? What about doing a diacetyl rest? Any suggestions or advice would be greatly appreciated. Recipe attached

 

[IslandLizard]

The current reading is 1.20

What instrument did you use to measure the gravity?

It'd been at 1.20 for 3 days. Should I just wait another week?

I would, regardless of that reading, give it 2-3 weeks.
You could keep it in a somewhat warmer place, mid 60s, which will effectively be a "diacetyl rest," while it's fermenting out.

 

[cleaner72]

What instrument did you use to measure the gravity?


I would, regardless of that reading, give it 2-3 weeks.
You could keep it in a somewhat warmer place, mid 60s, which will effectively be a "diacetyl rest," while it's fermenting out.

I used a refractometer to measure. I use a glycol chiller to keep the temperature where I need it.

 

[IslandLizard]

I used a refractometer to measure.

Ah, that's what I expected...

You'd need to use a correction calculator, because your sample contains alcohol which has a much higher refraction index than wort, and thus skews the gravity reading badly (showing it much higher than it really is):
https://www.brewersfriend.com/refractometer-calculator/You'd use Part II, and you'd need to input the OG and your measured "FG" to get the corrected (real) FG value.

 

[cleaner72]

Thank you very much for that info. According to the calculator, then my fg is 1.007, 2 points less then what the recipe called for. So should I still wait.or raise the temp for the diacytl rest?

Ah, that's what I expected...

You'd need to use a correction calculator, because your sample contains alcohol which has a much higher refraction index than wort, and thus skews the gravity reading badly (showing it much higher than it really is):
https://www.brewersfriend.com/refractometer-calculator/You'd use Part II, and you'd need to input the OG and your measured "FG" to get the corrected (real) FGthank you

 

[IslandLizard]

Thank you very much for that info.

You're very welcome!

According to the calculator, then my fg is 1.007, 2 points less then what the recipe called for. So should I still wait.or raise the temp for the diacytl rest?

1.007 sounds much better.
She's probably done fermenting or close to done, which you can tell when krausen/foam has dropped and the beer starts to clear.
But it's always good to let her be for another week (or longer, especially with higher gravity beers) to make sure that:

1. She's truly done fermenting. The tail end is always slow moving.
2. Although the "big event" is over, the yeast is still working, cleaning up fermentation byproducts, making a better, cleaner tasting beer. This is the conditioning phase.

So yeah, I would raise the temps to 68F and let her condition for another week. That will take care of any diacetyl too, if there's any, and allow her to clear somewhat more. Then take another gravity reading, and when the (measured of corrected) gravity is still the same, she's done. Proceed to cold crashing at 30-32F for a week or longer to clear more thoroughly.
Then package (keg or bottle).

If you're in a hurry, you can keg (not bottle!) earlier, 3-4 days from now after the D-rest, but she may still be quite cloudy.

 

[cleaner72]

You're very welcome!


1.007 sounds much better.
She's probably done fermenting or close to done, which you can tell when krausen/foam has dropped and the beer starts to clear.
But it's always good to let her be for another week (or longer, especially with higher gravity beers) to make sure that:

1. She's truly done fermenting. The tail end is always slow moving.
2. Although the "big event" is over, the yeast is still working, cleaning up fermentation byproducts, making a better, cleaner tasting beer. This is the conditioning phase.

So yeah, I would raise the temps to 68F and let her condition for another week. That will take care of any diacetyl too, if there's any, and allow her to clear somewhat more. Then take another gravity reading, and when the (measured of corrected) gravity is still the same, she's done. Proceed to cold crashing at 30-32F for a week or longer to clear more thoroughly.
Then package (keg or bottle).

If you're in a hurry, you can keg (not bottle!) earlier, 3-4 days from now after the D-rest, but she may still be quite cloudy.

Awesome. Thank you very much for the help