WLP644 -Brett B Trois

[kbindera]

I am curious to know about experiences with fermentation temps with 644. White Labs website says that 70-85F is ideal. I also have a White Labs yeast guide poster that says "85F+" as its "Optimum Fermentation Temp."
I have a beer going now (50% 2-row, 30% wheat malts, 10% triticale malt, 5% flaked oats, 1.5% acid malt, 3.5% choc rye malt). Pitched a huge starter of 644 at 68F, ramped to 72F at 24 hours, then to 75F after about another 24 hours. This thing is going crazy. Anyway, wondering if there is any point in ramping it up into the 80's. Any flavor contributions that others have seen in the high temp ranges?

Just wanted to share results here. I kept fermentation at 75 for 3 weeks. Dry hopped with Galaxy. After several weeks in a keg the overwhelming flavor that people describe to me is "vinous" with a slight tropical fruit back note. Head of my home brew club compared it to wine flavors in Midas Touch, which uses muscat grapes. I did a side by side and concur. Anyway, hadn't expected this kind of flavor.


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[dinnerstick]

I threatened a few pages back to make a stout with this yeast just to see what it would do with roast. Well, i just finished dumping it down the drain but unfortunately i can still smell it. It was a very small (5L) test batch, and it was not nice. Not hideous, just didn't work at all. Basic american stout recipe but beefed up with oats and wheat, the standard trick with brett to leave body. Oddly, the one thing that the smell really reminds me of is rusty water. And stale fruit, like old nectarine juice, and then muted chocolate from the roast. Will happily try this again with a different brett strain, but this one is now relieved of all duties not pertaining to fruity hops.

 

[badlee]

RIP sucky beer.
It seems strange to me that you should be so dissapointed with it.
I brewed one of the Whitbread recipes in the Durden park beer circle book with this strain and could not hold on to the bottles for long enough.
The beer was supposed tobe conditioned for 6 months. It lasted 4!

 

[andrewcoopergt]

I'm also surprised at the bad result. I have made a porter with this strain a couple times and it has turned out to be a favorite!


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[Quaker]

I made a porter way back as well. It was tasty, but definitely more Belgian Dubbel dark fruit than porter like at all. I don't recall roast showing up or if it was there, it was muted or covered by the fruit. That was an extreme over pitch onto the full cake of a prior batch. Wildest ferment I've ever seen with that dark wort churning and frothing about. It was also hot as I recall. Definitely well into the 70s or 80s.

 

[Beerswimmer]

I am considering using Trois in a 5% or so beer to enter in a comp, it will have to be brewed and judged in one month. Possible? I'm thinking a pale with some fruity hops. Needs to have a minimum of 5% rye too.

 

[Wort_Cleaver]

Been wanting to do a 100% Brett Trois beer for a while now. Finally put in my order and should be brewing it in the next two weeks or so. I'm going with a fairly basic grain bill to allow the yeast and hops to shine. I'll be using a small amount of Magnum for some smooth bittering and then late additions which will hopefully play well with the Brett - Calypso (for some apple/pear notes), Motueka (citrusy lemon/lime), and El Dorado (watermelon candy, tropical). I'll probably sit on this in the fermenter for at least two months or so while I piece together a new kegging setup and I'll dry hop just before kegging. Here's the recipe, which may be tweaked slightly before brew day.

5.25 gallon batch
Est OG - 1.069
IBU - 26.1

9 lb Belgian Pale Malt
3 lb White Wheat
1 lb Flaked Wheat
8 oz Carafoam
8 oz Acid Malt
4 oz Rice Hulls

60 minutes - 0.25 oz Magnum
10 minutes - 0.25 oz each (Calypso, Motueka, El Dorado)
5 minutes - 0.25 oz each (Calypso, Motueka, El Dorado)
0 minutes - 0.25 oz each (Calypso, Motueka, El Dorado)
7 Day Dry Hop - 0.5 oz each (Calypso, Motueka, El Dorado)

Mash at 154 F for 60 minutes, 15 minute Mashout at 170 F

Pitch starter made from 2 vials of WLP644 Brett B Trois

I'll be building my water with a pretty balanced profile leaning a little to the hop-accentuating side with SO4/Cl ratio of 1.5.

I'll try to remember to come back and update once this one is ready to drink.

 

[tagz]

I haven't done a trois beer yet but I think it would be a shame to sit on such a nice hoppy beer for 2 months. You might miss a lot of the big bright flavors.

 

[jfrank85]

I entered my blonde brett into a competition and it was quite disappointing. The judges wanted more funk and tart . I guess they didn't understand what a 100% brett fermentation was. They weren't bjcp judges mind you.

 

[Beerswimmer]

I'm also surprised at the bad result. I have made a porter with this strain a couple times and it has turned out to be a favorite!


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I plan on making a porter as well, any tasting notes?

 

[andrewcoopergt]

I plan on making a porter as well, any tasting notes?

Recipe - 100% Brett Porter (WLP644)

7lbs. Maris Otter
1lb. Bonlander Malt
1lb. CaraMunich III
10oz. Midnight Wheat
10oz. Chocolate Malt
12oz. Honey

1oz. Fuggles @ 60 mins

It isn't your traditional rich malty porter. The mouth-feel is ever so lighter than a regular porter, and still has those really nice roasty notes. The difference though is it has such a nice, yet subtle, underlying fruity taste that somehow makes it shine. It's not even a discernible specific fruit flavor (obviously from the yeast), but just enough to compliment the roast that makes it outstanding. And for a beer that only sits at about 6%, it ages really well. I had one that was about 8 months old and it was just delicious. I have another batch that I'm going to add just a touch of coffee to. Very excited about it.

 

[Beerswimmer]

Here's an IPA I'm brewing right now, critiques welcome.

8lbs pale 2-row
1lbs rye
.5lbs crystal
.5lbs flaked oats
1lb sugar @ boil
120F 20mins
152F 60mins

1oz Galaxy @60
1oz Galaxy @5
1oz Galaxy @1
3oz Galaxy @flameout


Cool to 70F, pitch 2L starter of Trois and keep at 70F ambient.
After fermentation is done dry hop 2oz Galaxy 1oz Amarillo for 2 days then add 1oz Galaxy 1oz Amarillo for 2 more. Cold crash, keg.

 

[Floculator]

Read this whole thread over a few days, great info.

Did my first brett beer yesterday

10.00 lb Belgian Pale Malt 83.3 %
1.00 lb Cara-Pils 8.3 %
1.00 lb Rolled Oats 8.3 %

1.00 oz Zythos [10.90%] (60 min)
1.00 oz Ahtanum [4.00%] (60 min)
0.25 oz Citra [15.60%] (60 min)
0.25 oz Amarillo [9.00%] (60 min)
0.75 oz Citra [15.60%] (5 min)
0.75 oz Amarillo [9.00%] (5 min)
1.00 oz Ahtanum [4.00%] (5 min)
1.00 oz Amarillo [9.00%] (Dry Hop )
1.00 oz Citra [15.60%] (Dry Hop )
1.00 oz Zythos [10.90%] (Dry Hop )

WLP-644 Brett B Trios

Mashed @153 60mins

Yeast nutrient last 15mins

Fermwrap/temp controller set at 73 degrees

OG 1.06

IBU 82.2


I didnt end up making a starter, but already have some activity as of 6am, pitched yeast at 1pm yesterday.


Not sure how long I will dry hop this for, should I do the usual 2 weeks?

Ended up dry hopping for a week, looks/smells/tastes great. Stashed a 6 pack upstairs in the warmer climate for experimenting w temps, left the rest in the basement. Very excited for this brew.

 

[Oophaga]

So I did an IPA with this back in February. I would say it has improved insanely after conditioning for 6 months. In no way has it fallen off like any other IPA would have, rather I say it is incredibly better. I need to rebrew asap. Hopefully Ill still be able to have the time despite medic starting this month. The bitterness has fallen off quite a bit, and the fruit flavors, ripe melon and citrus are definitely in the forefront now. I wish I had saved a lot more then I have left...one bottle.

 

[andrewcoopergt]

So I did an IPA with this back in February. I would say it has improved insanely after conditioning for 6 months. In no way has it fallen off like any other IPA would have, rather I say it is incredibly better. I need to rebrew asap. Hopefully Ill still be able to have the time despite medic starting this month. The bitterness has fallen off quite a bit, and the fruit flavors, ripe melon and citrus are definitely in the forefront now. I wish I had saved a lot more then I have left...one bottle.

Thanks for sharing! I just put an IPA in the keg about a week ago, and am not as thrilled as I would like. Hoping it ages like you say!



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[Oophaga]

It was solid from the start. It just got more in your face fruity and less bitter overtime. I guess the bitterness is obvious but the fruitiness was the big surprise for me. I also did almost no boil hops, the majority were hop stand and dry hops. Hope yours improves to how you want it.

 

[geobotsar]

Did an all brett ipa with this strain 5-6 weeks ago. I did a2liter starter thinking that the vial contained 100 billion cells, and wanted to do lager pitching rates, as adviced in byo. I now understand that the vial contains much less, as i just read on this thread. Anyhow, the ipa attennuated fully in 3 weeks, and had a great tropical fruits smell as i transfered to secondary. Been carbonating for a week in the fridge, great juicy flavor and aroma but very hazy. But as i understand the strain is not flocculent and needs time to clear.

 

[Beerswimmer]

Moved the beer from post #792 into secondary and put in the first dry hop. SG 1.016. Second dry hop will be in 2 days, then cold crashing and hopefully kegging by Tuesday at the latest. Smelled great!

 

[Beerswimmer]

Moved the beer from post #792 into secondary and put in the first dry hop. SG 1.016. Second dry hop will be in 2 days, then cold crashing and hopefully kegging by Tuesday at the latest. Smelled great!

Second dry hop is in, can't smell **** due to a cold

 

[Oophaga]

Recently did a saison with belle saison and wlp644 pitched at the same time, modest gravity of 1.062. Late hop centennial and whirlpool citra. Plan on dry-hopping with a bit of citra and Amarillo. Hoping for a juicy slightly tart saison. Low IBU and I know that aerated the brett should sour a bit along with the reports of tartness from the belle saison itself. Hopefully it'll be sour/tart enough to make it juicy and thirst quenching. Been fermenting since Tuesday.

 

[Gus_13]

Recently did a saison with belle saison and wlp644 pitched at the same time, modest gravity of 1.062. Late hop centennial and whirlpool citra. Plan on dry-hopping with a bit of citra and Amarillo. Hoping for a juicy slightly tart saison. Low IBU and I know that aerated the brett should sour a bit along with the reports of tartness from the belle saison itself. Hopefully it'll be sour/tart enough to make it juicy and thirst quenching. Been fermenting since Tuesday.

Interesting. I'd like to try something similar. I've only used the Belle Saison one time and it became a 19 month going sour so I didn't get to taste a lot of the yeast characteristics. I've read some interesting things on it.

 

[WhamFish]

I've grown up a bunch of Brett Trois and I'm planing on brewing a series of beers with it I was wondering if others could comment with their experience on a few things:

1)Pitching rate - With all of my yeast I grow up several liters of starter, cold crash, decant then measure out yeast solids after the solids have settled out over 2 days. I then use the re-pitching volume in ml from Mr Malty to measure out the yeast to pitch. Will this approach work for Brett yeast solids? How do Brett dregs compare to Sac dregs as far as cell count to volume goes?

2)Phenol interaction - This strain seems like it is a very low producer of the funky Brett character I'm familiar with, instead it produces some very fruit like esters. How does it interact with phenols and esters produced by Sac in mixed fermentations? I know the American sour book and several other resources say that the funk character of Brett increases in the presence of these phenols but does anyone have first hand experience with that happening in this strain? Does the funk overwhelm the fruit character? Does it even get funky at all?

3) Fermentation temp - White labs suggests 70-85, has anyone fermented below this like in the 65-68 range? I'm sure it will ferment there just fine but I'm wondering what you think changed at this lower temp: lower attenuation, slower fermentation, different taste and aromatic profile?


I've read through a lot of this thread and looked at comments on some of these questions but many of the comments are 2 years old, I was hoping now that the strain has been available for a bit longer there might be a few people with several batches of experiance now. Thanks for any comments.

 

[Beerswimmer]

I can only comment on #1, #3. Give the starter an extra day or so, pitch at ale rates. Haven't noticed any normal Brett funk ever. It seems to me that temps in the low-mid 70's work great. Lots of flavor and aroma, no off flavors noted. I'd guess lower temps would just slow down the ferment time.

 

[Gus_13]

Just made a starter for a vial I'm going to give a week then step it up for a witbier with citrus. Should be interesting!


Santé!

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[dinnerstick]

1)Pitching rate - With all of my yeast I grow up several liters of starter, cold crash, decant then measure out yeast solids after the solids have settled out over 2 days. I then use the re-pitching volume in ml from Mr Malty to measure out the yeast to pitch. Will this approach work for Brett yeast solids? How do Brett dregs compare to Sac dregs as far as cell count to volume goes?

remember that brett cells are smaller than sacc cells, so you will really only be able to estimate pitch rate by counting cells. however i have had good success with trois by pitching a similar volume of yeast cake as for a sacc beer. i tend to pitch a little bit more actually, but there is no rationale behind this. it works so i go with it.

 

[sweetcell]

remember that brett cells are smaller than sacc cells

i thought that they were about the same size, with brett occasionally being slightly bigger (mind you, there is a lot of variability within these two genus). i would be interested in getting confirmation of this, the online sources i've found aren't conclusive IMO:
http://eurekabrewing.wordpress.com/2012/03/27/brettanomyces-bruxellensis-microscopy-pictures/
http://www.weizmann.ac.il/plants/Milo/images/YeastSize-Feb2010.pdf

 

[Gus_13]

i thought that they were about the same size, with brett occasionally being slightly bigger (mind you, there is a lot of variability within these two genus). i would be interested in getting confirmation of this, the online sources i've found aren't conclusive IMO:
http://eurekabrewing.wordpress.com/2012/03/27/brettanomyces-bruxellensis-microscopy-pictures/
http://www.weizmann.ac.il/plants/Milo/images/YeastSize-Feb2010.pdf

In American Sour Beers, Mike points out a couple times that they are smaller than Sacc cells. I just re-read over the 100% chapter yesterday while I was flying to Detroit. I can't remember if he references anywhere but I don't have the book with me at the moment to look.

 

[medicalneedles]

I've got my 1.6 L starter going after growing up one vial of WLP644 Brett. trois pitched into 300 mL of standard yeast starter wort (1.040) for 8 days. Both starters have a kickass fruity aroma with more complexity and pineapple than my normal sacc. yeast starters.

Going to follow this recipe at the mad fermentationist for Brett pitching fermenting parameters, but going to use my Kern River Citra IIPA clone recipe from the Can You Brew It Archives https://www.brewtoad.com/recipes/kern-river-citra-double-ipa-2

Already made this recipe once with San Diego super yeast and it was fantastic. I'll post my progress.


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[mr_samsonite]

Please do.

 

[medicalneedles]

http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2012/07/100-brett-trois-ipa-recipe.html

100% Brett IPa recipe with the pitching parameters...


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