WLP644 -Brett B Trois

[berebrando]

Wow, I can't believe this is the first time I've come across this thread! I have been researching all-brett fermentations for a while and finally took the plunge today. I've listened to the BN show with CY, reviewed his slide show, listened to every BN show with wild/lambic/sour brewers, and reviewed CY's Brett Project website (i can understand a little bit of it). Here's what I have:

Starter 1: moderately aerated, 2L starter with 2 vials of WLP 644
Starter 2: moderately aerated, 2L starter with 1 vial of each of WLP 650 and WLP 653 (i wanted two vials of 650, but the LHBS was out)

I was aiming for a lager-like starter size, hence the 2 vials and the 2L, using the yeast calc website, these starters are expected to get me in between the lager and ale pitch rates. But, it looks like the research is showing extraordinary doublings. If I had seen this thread before building my starters, I probably would have used 1 vial each, but oh well. Either way, it will be interesting to see what these pitch rates result in.

I'm brewing an american pale-type (10g batch with 12# maris otter, 6.5#wheat malt, 2# rye malt, 12oz cpils, and 8oz munich, hopped to about 20 ibu with chinook & citra. it will be hoppy, but not as hoppy as my normal pale) beer a week from tomorrow and I will try to remember to return with results. (This is a fantastic post and an amazingly fascinating experiment!)

 

[Quaker]

After racking my first batch onto fruit in secondary, I refilled my vial with yeast for future use. I also set aside the remaining slurry, and immediately brewed a porter that same day...

This morning I decided to draw a sample of my 100% Brett Trois porter brewed 7/15. After only 3 days, I had racked it to a keg. The first week, I vented it every day or two. Then I forgot about it. Today I vented it about 5 or 6 times, each time stopping as foam and beer would start to spray out. Finally decided to just tap it and let the natural carbonation serve it. Filled a wheat beer glass 3/4 full. A lot of pressure in that keg still.

SG = 3.5P from an OG of 12.9P (go ahead and chastise me now for using a refractometer).

Appearance is opaque, dark brown, with cream/tan colored head which lasted despite stirring in attempt to get a foam free gravity reading sample, clinging to sides of glass. Aroma is a bit sour, with dark fruit - prunes or raisons, smells like a sour brown ale, maybe a hint of chocolate aroma. Taste is dark fruit and little coffee, bitterness only as a lingering notion (34 IBU), silky, coating mouthfeel, a minor tart or sourness which with the fruit gives impressions of cherries, no astringency at all. I would not call it a sour beer, but the touch of it which works perfectly. This recipe was a complete hodge podge of leftover malts/grains (9 plus a pils base to be precise), so I'd never plan to exactly re-brew it. However, based on this I'd recommend doing an all bret porter or stout or dubbel. This actually tastes more like a dubbel to me than a porter. Just creating a Wyeast Brett L starter today for a 100% fermentation next weekend. Was going to make a light blond for future blending, but thinking of changing course now.

 

[berebrando]

After racking my first batch onto fruit in secondary, I refilled my vial with yeast for future use. I also set aside the remaining slurry, and immediately brewed a porter that same day.

Regarding storage techniques, I seem to recall Chad mentioning that he has had better results with brett stored at room temperature as opposed to refrigeration. Did anyone else get this impression?

I'm interested in this because I sometimes stash yeast slurry in a mason jar if I'm going to use it in the near future. CY implies that storing this slurry at room temperature would be better for the long term viability of the yeast.

This morning I decided to draw a sample of my 100% Brett Trois porter brewed 7/15. After only 3 days, I had racked it to a keg. The first week, I vented it every day or two. Then I forgot about it. Today I vented it about 5 or 6 times, each time stopping as foam and beer would start to spray out.

Another point I recall from CY's BN interview was that he is seeing brett becoming active again when pressure is applied. I find Quaker's results very interesting - 3 day ferment, then pressurized aging... I wonder if the porter would have dried out further if it weren't subject to the pressure.

 

[Quaker]

Now that I've brewed 2 all Brett batches, headed for my third, I need to re-listen to that interview with CY. His comments about dark malts and Brett were why I went for the second batch, but I don't recall the pressure fermentation discussion. I definitely need to sample my other soon which was a blond on mangoes and apricots with lacto in secondary.

 

[berebrando]

About 16 hours in, the trois starter is crazy active. Bubbling like gangbusters and generating a small white krausen. The Brett brux/lambicus (I've heard they are actually the same species?) starter is not showing any signs of life. Maybe the b/l starter will take the 7 to 10 days that has been thrown around for "normal" Brett starters (?), whereas the trois starter will behave more like a sacch.



This is fun!

 

[smokinghole]

My trois starter grew exactly like a sacch starter. Therefore I decided to just pitch it at typical ale rate. The mash was a bitch for me with the rye and oats in there. I had to run off rather slow.

 

[Quaker]

I also have a Wyeast Brett L on the stir plate now about 18 hours in. Not much happening in sharp contrast to my previous 644 starter which took off like a Belgian or Hefe strain.

 

[berebrando]

About 20 hours in, the brux/lambicus starter has kicked up. The trois starter is still going nuts.



Looks like they will both be ready to pitch next weekend. In the future, I guess I'll just do a 24 to 48 hour starter with trois.

 

[nofootbreak]

Kegged and dryhopped my 100% trois batch saturday night and harvested the slurry.

Brewed 10gal of 1.052 saison yesterday ~30 IBUs.

5gal pitched with 90ml of trois slurry and a smack pack of 3726 with no starter.
I went with roughly the estimate that mr.malty gave for a repitch of sacch slurry to pitch my brett.

Other 5 gal pitched with a 1.6L starter of WLP585 saison III. Will be bottling this with brett trois dosed bottles, and possibly some other brett strains to see the difference.

10 hours after pitching they both have a pretty vigorous fermentation going.

 

[Almighty]

berebrando - I also agree with Chad Y's storage of Brett. I have noticed similar results that my tubes of Brett Slurry seem to have a much better viability when stored at room temperature. I was trying to think of why this happens and I guess it makes sense. Brett is just able to use a greater range of compounds for its carbon food source. Hence, why these beers continue to change over time because the Brett is still metabolizing different flavor compounds.

 

[mhenry41h]

mhenry41h - It is a very slow flocculator. I would suggest cold crashing and using gelatin (or you favorite fining agent). I racked me beer from carboy to dry-hop keg to serving keg with gelatin and cold crashing and then it finally got pretty clear after about a week in the keg.

I'm at 3 weeks and 2 days today and it's finally clearing. I think I'm going to let this sit for 6 weeks in hopes that the sacc/brett blend will give me just a kiss of funk. I'm finding that this strain is pretty "tame" in that it's more prone to fruity flavors than funk. I'm down to 1.006 (8.6% ABV) and its fruity with a nice kiss of spice right now. If it can develop just a touch of funk, this beer will be remarkably good.

 

[Coff]

Well your beer sounds similar to mine, 1.045 Saison base Pils Munich and Wheat mashed at 148-49. Im thinking about hitting it with some Maltodextrin, just a very little bit to add body/ complex sugars for the brett to work on. The problem with that is Im worried I'll have to wait longer to bottle, and maybe Im better off leaving it alone.

Took a reading last night at at 23 days primary, its at 1.010 and still quite cloudy. Stone fruit aromas as others have been noticing with just a hint of spice on the back of the tongue, no noticeable funk however. Like others have said, if this beer develops a touch of funk it could be great. As of now it is quite good and I think will develop in the bottle well over time.

The other half of this wort got WLP 565 Saison I and is bone dry, 1.003, so I think the trois still has some to go yet albeit I ramped the Saison I to 82 over a week so I might be drying that beer out significantly more.

I plan to primary the Trois for ~6 weeks in hopes it attenuates a bit more and clears up. I may hit it with gelatin a few days before bottling to help it out. I refilled my vial from my starter so I wont have to wash any of the yeast in the fermenter.

 

[nofootbreak]

Mine sat in the primary 7.5 weeks before i transferred it to a keg. Only got down to 1.006. I kegged it and put it under 16 psi thinking it may start up again and let it sit for a few days with no noticeable activity. I think its done. Dry hopping it with .5oz of citra and .5oz of nelson sauvin for 36 hrs and bottling. Hoping I didnt overdo the dry hop, but I probably wont be drinking this too quickly.

 

[JLem]

I cracked open one of my Brett Trois "multigrain farmhouse" ales after just over 2 weeks in the bottle (stored warm - in the 80s) and 24 hrs in the fridge. Turned out spectacularly. Crisp, fruity, not too thin, good carbonation. I really like this yeast. I harvested the slurry from this batch and I think I'm going to try it in a darker, Fall beer. Maybe an english-style brown ale with cranberries - perfect to pair with the thanksgiving turkey!

 

[mhenry41h]

Has anybody achieved any "funk" from this strain?

 

[berebrando]

Starter update: the trois has started flocc'ing out after 5 days. In comparison, the brux/lambicus blend is still going strong with a nasty (that's a good thing, I think) bubbly krausen.



Again, pitching in to a pale ale this weekend (t minus 3 days).

 

[AmandaK]

Starter update: the trois has started flocc'ing out after 5 days. In comparison, the brux/lambicus blend is still going strong with a nasty (that's a good thing, I think) bubbly krausen.

It's a good thing.

 

[Quaker]

Tasted my blond on apricots and mangoes. No snazzy tasting notes, as I was a few pints into the night. I had read Old Sock's blog post on his IPA and ran to the basement to snitch a taste of mine. Go figure, it's wonderfully aromatic and tasting of apricots and mangoes. I had dosed it with a bit of lacto on 7/28 which quickly formed a pellicle. It has a brisk tartness which could just as likely be from the apricots at this point. I coincidentally kicked a keg of CYBI Terrapin pale ale tonight, so this one will get racked to the keg tomorrow. The only regret is that SWMBO and friends will like it. I might have to turn another batch around of this. Loving this yeast... especially in a Shanghai summer with no control of ferm temps other than initial pitching temp.

 

[diegobonatto]

My questions: I'm making a 100% Brett WLP644 Belgian Tripel (O.G. 1.080), which is fermenting at 7 days at 70- 73 °F. I used a big starter culture (pitched at lager ratio). The wort was pitched at 64 °C and, after 12 hours, fermentation take-off, and temperature was adjusted to 70- 73 °F. Since then, I'm getting a strong banana smell from fermenter (very sweet smell, indeed, and very pleasant). However, I did not got any other tropical fruit smell yet (maybe a very faint smell of pears). The banana smell should change with time? Somebody get similar smell with WLP644?
I'm pretending let in primary for 4 weeks....

 

[mhenry41h]

My questions: I'm making a 100% Brett WLP644 Belgian Tripel (O.G. 1.080), which is fermenting at 7 days at 70- 73 °F. I used a big starter culture (pitched at lager ratio). The wort was pitched at 64 °C and, after 12 hours, fermentation take-off, and temperature was adjusted to 70- 73 °F. Since then, I'm getting a strong banana smell from fermenter (very sweet smell, indeed, and very pleasant). However, I did not got any other tropical fruit smell yet (maybe a very faint smell of pears). The banana smell should change with time? Somebody get similar smell with WLP644?
I'm pretending let in primary for 4 weeks....

Let that bugger sit. I've yet to learn how to taste a beer at 7 days and know what it will taste like when it's done. I try like hell, but I still haven't figured it out!

 

[Johnnyhitch1]

Ended up stiring a 1500 starter and brewed up a simple pale ale with nelson sauvin and pacific jade hops split it in 3 batches.
Under pitched one. Split the rest between the other 2 batchs and aerated only one of them

as of 5 hours the largest krausen is on the underpitched batch?!
nice krausen on the normal pitch aerated
pellice forming on the non-aerated

Will report back!!

 

[Ravenshead]

Here's my Saison-Brett using this strain as a secondary ferment. The Brett character is mild but definitely present. It needs a couple more months in the bottle to get great. The head looks good in the picture but the CO2 hasn't really dissolved in to the liquid yet.

 

[berebrando]

Under pitched one. Split the rest between the other 2 batchs and aerated only one of them

Sweet experiment! Please report back with tasting notes!

I gather from this thread that most are fermenting around 70. I have my chamber set at 70 and will report back

 

[BenWillcox]

Heh Ravenshead, do you mind posting or linking your recipe? I picked up a vial of Brett B Trois this past weekend since my LHBS (high gravity) still had some in stock, and I have been wondering about just what to brew with it.

 

[Almighty]

BenWillcox - I actually prefer this strain as a Primary fermenter rather than in Secondary. I have not gotten the amazing tropical fruit aromas and flavors when used in secondary, it more provided a mild funk character (I find this difficult to describe).

 

[BenWillcox]

Thats what I have read. I was wanting to use it as a primary in a Saison-style beer. That was why I was asking for Ravenshead's recipe.

 

[berebrando]

Well I am now two days in to fermentation with the trois vs brux/lambicus comparison. I came home from work to find a nice (normal) krausen in the trois half and a pellicle in the brux/lambicus blended half.

Here is a picture at 48 hours from pitching:



The front (closer) is the brux/lambicus fermenter and the back (left) is the trois fermenter. You can see how the trois fermentation compares to the saison fermentations in the background right (wlp568). Also, you can sort of see the bubbly pellicle that formed in the brux/lambicus blend. It is fermenting at 70 right now, and will move to ambient (80 to 85) when I need the fermentation space (at least two weeks from pitching), where it will dry out for at least two more weeks.

 

[Almighty]

BenWilcox - I have also used it in a Saison style wort and not been overly impressed with the flavor profile.
http://jeffreycrane.blogspot.com/2012/06/great-saison-experiment-8-strains-part.html

I think this strain really shines when it is used with a good amount of hops and with some crystal malt to add some sweetness to the fruit flavors. Also in my limited experience the more complex sugars in the wort the more complex flavors I got from the yeast. Plus with the high attenuation, the Brett leaves the beer pretty thin since it doesn't produce the glycerol like Saison yeasts to give the impression of more mouthfeel.

 

[JLem]

BenWilcox - I have also used it in a Saison style wort and not been overly impressed with the flavor profile.
http://jeffreycrane.blogspot.com/2012/06/great-saison-experiment-8-strains-part.html

I think this strain really shines when it is used with a good amount of hops and with some crystal malt to add some sweetness to the fruit flavors. Also in my limited experience the more complex sugars in the wort the more complex flavors I got from the yeast. Plus with the high attenuation, the Brett leaves the beer pretty thin since it doesn't produce the glycerol like Saison yeasts to give the impression of more mouthfeel.

Maybe my experience has been because of the hopping, but I love my brew with this strain. I used raw wheat, spelt, and quinoa along with pale and pilsner malt. No crystal malts. The beer is super flavorful, fruity and crisp. Mine finished at 1.010, so while thinnish, not overly so. Perhaps the hops I used accentuated the fruitiness, but I have nothing but good things to say about this yeast. I am going to brew up a darker, sweeter beer with it in the coming weeks, so maybe my opinion will change then...but I hope not.

http://www.brewbybrew.com/2012/06/multigrain-100-brett-farmhouse-ale.html

 

[Almighty]

JLem - I think due to your mash schedule you must have produced more complex sugars, which is also apparent with your FG of 1.010. I did a very thick single infusion mash at 148 and my beer with Brett Drie fermented down to 1.000. So I guess the lesson here would be to design your Saison recipe knowing the attenuation capability of this yeast.

I think the flavors from the yeast work well on their own so they would work with a Saison style wort, you just don't need to focus on making the wort too fermentable.