EXPERIMENT: Fixing a broken Belgian Pale with Brett Brux

[HM-2]

I've been out of the country for a few weeks and before I departed I brewed what was supposed to be a batch of Belgian Tripel, but missed my numbers by a mile (for reasons I have yet to determine) and ended up with a reasonably alright Belgian Pale Ale wort (or so I thought). It's had about three-and-a-half weeks in the fermenter and I came to transfer it to keg today only to realise it's gone pretty horribly wrong. I can only assume that the temperatures we've had in the UK have done something to it (it had mostly fermented out before I went but I wanted to leave it to clean up, but did so without temp control) as we had a big chunk of that time period at or over 30°C, but I've ended up with what I'm guess is a whole load of autolysis off-flavour (mmmm, beefy) and 5 gallons of something pretty unpalatable.

I've got some Brett Brux kicking around that I picked up cheap as it was nearing its expiry and I'm going to try secondary fermenting with this. The research I've done suggests that Brux should be fairly adept at cleaning up autolysis off-flavour. I'll secondary ferment in a keg with a spunding valve and leave it in a cool corner of my garage for the next few months and...see what happens? I'm hoping it might turn bone broth beer into something more resembling a nicely aged Orval!

 

[mashpaddled]

I assume people in a place that willingly eats marmite would know what autolysis tastes like but it would be surprising to me that you would have that much of an autolysis issue after three weeks at those temperatures. Yeast cells don't start dying from temperature until much higher, but again, you probably know your beefy autolysis flavors better than most.

 

[HM-2]

I cannot satisfactorily explain it any other way. It tastes like a half-decent Belgian Pale mixed 50/50 with Bovril (which for Americans who don't know, is basically Marmite made with beef extract). It's like no off-flavour I've ever had before.

 

[HM-2]

So, as a revisit to this experiment as I forgot to ever update it:

I pitched a full pack of (expired) OYL-211 Bit 'o Funk into the keg along with a very small amount of dissolved clear Candi sugar.

Let it sit in a warm corner of my workshop for 4 months.

Carbed it up to 3.2x and served it.




And it was ****ing fantastic.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I assume people in a place that willingly eats marmite

Eat it? We drink it....

[yes this was real, although I hasten to emphasise it was a novelty one-off produced by one of ABI's craft subsidiaries, we assume someone lost a bet...]

 

[huckdavidson]

@HM-2 what was the specific (brand/type) original yeast used to ferment?

 

[HM-2]

@HM-2 what was the specific (brand/type) original yeast used to ferment?

Mangrove Jack M31, IIRC.

 

[huckdavidson]

Interesting, and maybe I'm not reading this correctly but @dmtaylor yeast spreadsheet says that might be a saison yeast? Though I don't know why that would make a difference.

 

[HM-2]

Interesting, and maybe I'm not reading this correctly but @dmtaylor yeast spreadsheet says that might be a saison yeast? Though I don't know why that would make a difference.

View attachment 838537

-Edit

Ignore me, I can't read

 

[dmtaylor]

My notes also say "hazy", which would be due to poor flocculation characteristics of the yeast. If it was young yet (3 weeks?!), you were probably tasting live yeast. When I taste live yeast, I often call it "beefy" or actually I would most often say "liver", which is different from the standard yeasty flavor which is more "doughy". The yeast doesn't have to be dead to taste like liver, in my experience.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Interesting, and maybe I'm not reading this correctly but @dmtaylor yeast spreadsheet says that might be a saison yeast?

M31 is visibly a blend of two yeasts which implies they've been grown on two different foods and so probably two different manufacturers. I think this is the nub of it :

I'm pretty certain that one half of M31 is Belle Saison, and my guess is that the other half is BE-256.

 

[dmtaylor]

If true, I'm not surprised at all if the beer tasted yeasty after 3 weeks. In my experience with Belle, it takes nearly 4 weeks to complete fermentation... and maybe more! It eats a lot of sugar, averaging 95-96% apparent attenuation, but takes a long time to do so. I've used Belle several times recently, and I bottle condition, and I am finding occasional bottles that are gushers, as though even 6 weeks in the fermenter wasn't long enough (I'm lazy when it comes time to bottle my finished beer, often sits for many weeks). Meanwhile.... I'm not noticing any beefy or liver flavors in the finished beers, they taste great.

 

[HM-2]

Going back over my notes, it appears I was mistaken and it wasn't M31 at all but M47 Abbey.

 

[dmtaylor]

M47 also says "hazy" in my notes. If it's equivalent to WB-06, I know it took many months for that yeast to clear for me. Tastes yeasty for a very long time.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

MJ describe M47 as "fewer phenols than Belgian Ale, this yeast is exceptionally fruity with hugely complex esters and is highly flocculant".

That doesn't sound much like WB-06, but it does sound rather similar to BE-256.

My suspicion is that MJ are selling the same yeasts singly and in blends. I don't have any proof but my working hypothesis is :

M36 Liberty Bell = M15 Empire Ale (Windsor) + M42 New World (Nottingham)
M31 Belgian Tripel = M29 French Saison (Belle) + M47 Belgian Abbey (BE-256)

Which in turn prompts the question are they doing something similar with their lagers, maybe M54 is Notty + Diamond or something? I don't do lagers so have no opinion there.

I welcome any proof that disproves my hypothesis! (bearing in mind that the MJ packaging process does seem to affect the yeast so they don't behave completely the same way even when they are known to be the same yeast as another company)

MJ seem to prefer Lallemand if they can, but go elsewhere for something like BE-256 where Lallemand doesn't have an option. Lallemand yeast are pale, kind of creamy colour whereas Fermentis are a bit darker - they use more molasses? - maybe even a hint of purple-brown in colour. It's really obvious in M31 but M36 wouldn't be visibly heterogenous if it's a blend of two Lallemand strains.

 

[HM-2]

I'd concur with the above summary, every other time I've used M47 (usually in Dubbels) it smashes down to FG in about 5 days then drops out hard.

 

[dmtaylor]

These are stumpers. I just put another couple hours thought into M31 and M47 and am as confounded as ever. I'm starting to wonder if Mangrove Jack blends their yeasts together on purpose just to make the detective work harder for us. I'm kidding of course but it sure isn't easy.

 

[sweetcell]

getting back to the original question about your belgian pale ale with an off-flavor: any chance its fusels, or another off-flavor associated with high-temp fermentation? belgians tend to tolerate high temps better than more ale yeasts, but there is a limit... also, most folks start them off in normal ale temp range (under 20*C) then ramp up after a few days - thus avoiding creating off-flavors during the exponential growth phase.

 

[bloombrews]

I was just down in Florida, riding my bicycle around the State, and could not find many Florida Craft Brews, available to buy at the stores...
So, knowing Cigar City makes great beer, I bought a 4-pack of their Belgium Cosmic Crown. As a long time brewer of Belgium beer, this one was a must to clone...
I just sourced a pound of Galaxy hops, and I "believe", that possibly, Fermentis BE-256 will dial in the, super crushable, easy drinkable, well attenuated, quafable, Belgium Pale Strong Ale.
Your thoughts ( especially, if you ever drank this fantastic BPSA) , and have used BE-256
Cheers!