WLP075 Hansen Ale

[ba-brewer]

Hard to say if the proper starter has any break, but it could have some unless it poured perfectly clear.

I would guess your have already have enough yeast and don't need to step up. If you do step it up I would only use a portion of the first step and not the whole thing. Using the whole thing you might have too high a density for the amount of starter wort.

http://www.brewunited.com/yeast_calculator.php

You want the inoculation between 25 and 100 B cells per ml. If you are outside of that range the field turn red to warn you.

 

[whovous]

Wow, you really sent me down the rabbit hole with that reply. I learned why an innoculation rate under 25B is bad (risks of infection, diacetyl and zombies), but not why going over 100B is bad. It seems that if I assume I am starting with 200B yeast cells, then making a 2L starter from my last two cans of Propper will get me back under 100B. Should I do that, or am I overthinking this?

 

[whovous]

OK, please advise how to proceed from here. I refrigerated the 1L batch made from the old and heat-exposed vial of 075 after it took my starter from 1.040 to to 1.012, then decanted the beer from the yeast. Yesterday morning I made a 2L starter with two cans of Omega Propper and put it on the stir plate. I got fermentation and krausen very quickly this time, whereas the prior batch barely krausened at all. It has gone from 1.040 to about 1.007 so far, and I suspect 1.004 is possible.

I plan to brew a 1.062 IPA tomorrow. Should I put the starter in the fridge today, or just leave it on the plate until I am ready to pitch tomorrow afternoon? I suspect it will fully attenuate by that time. If I leave it on the plate should I just pour about a half liter into the new brew and divide the rest among mason jars?

I am doubtless overthinking all of this, but that seems preferable to underthinking.

 

[ba-brewer]

using the brew united calculator

With a 5/17/19 mfg the default viability is 38% (maybe really less from getting warm in the mail), a 2L starter give 19Bcell/ml inoculation and 283B new cells for a total of 321B cells total.

320B cells 97% viable, a 2L starter give 155Bcell/ml inoculation and 263B new cells for a total of 573B cells total.

Assuming 5.5gal of 1062 need 237Bcell, I would crash then use half the yeast for the first batch. Then spit the second half again and build two fresh starter later with the saved portions.
​

With yeast that does not drop like a rock when the stir plate stops I split while the yeast is still in suspension, I think I get a better/even split. WLP075 drops too fast to do that so I crash then split the thick slurry.

 

[whovous]

Good point on how quickly this yeast drops. I will crash it tonight and follow your advice.

The math is interesting. I dropped the viability in the calculator for the original vial from 38% to 25% as a WAG on the effect of the heat problem. After the second starter I wind up with just a 2% reduction in cell count compared to the numbers I get from projecting 38% viability.

My totally inexpert visual impression was that my cell count after the first 1L starter was quite a bit higher than projected. This could mean viability was higher, or it could mean the original batch contained quite a bit more than 100 billion cells. It could also mean my inexpert impression was wrong. White Labs projections are over a pretty broad range. So, I might wind up over-pitching and completing fermentation even faster than usual. That would be great because I have a dream of going grain to glass in eight days on this one. I have a back-up plan for the event if my dream does not come true.

 

[ba-brewer]

OK I goofed up, I was thinking you did a 2L first step, a 1L first step would drop total count a bit but I think you will still end up with about twice the yeast you need if the second step was 2L. A 1L with 38% gives about 179Bcell, then a 2L starter ends up with 462Bcells. I would still do what I outline before, use half now and save the rest for more starters.

I normally let my starters go 18 to 24hrs, then take them off the stir plate for 6 to 8hr to settle some naturally before putting in the fridge. The 6-8hr rest allows the yeast to build reserves.

I have two beers fermenting now with wlp075, 4days post pitch they attenuated about 77%. The beers are a bit lower gravity at 1052 and 1056. I will keg the 1052 one in 4 more days, the other is getting dry hopped today and will be kegged a few days after the other.

 

[whovous]

I caught the goof when I went to the calculator and did not think it was worth mentioning. The math changes very little when we reduce the size of the first starter.

What were your final attenuation numbers? I got something like 87% and 90% on my first two, though I did not track how long they took. I just recall that they started very fast and attenuated a whole lot. The beer I have spunding now is at 76% after just under five days, but that one used an old and not well cared for slurry; I almost certainly underpitched.

My hope is to be around 65% in 48 hours, then transfer to a keg to dry hop and spund before cold crashing. I have a Clear Beer System in the keg so I will draw from the top and not the bottom of the barrel. Eight days may be pushing it, but I don't think I can hurt anything by trying.

 

[ba-brewer]

I don't check the gravity of my starter, mostly go by appearance and behavior. I did three beers with my first vial two IPA with some sugar and they attenuated to 81%, I did a golden ale all grain it attenuated to 77%.

In general about 4 days post pitch they have been pretty much done as far as attenuation is concerned.

 

[whovous]

My recipe includes some Dextrose as well. Shouldn't that speed the fermentation a bit? If I can finish in four, I like my chances of getting in a glass in eight.

 

[ba-brewer]

Bump the temp a couple degrees F 48 hours post pitch to keep thing working seems like you can hit your 8 days.

I personally like to put some conditioning time on my beers, even the hoppy ones. I normally keg in 7 to 10 days but like to wait 2 to 3 more week to start drinking.

 

[whovous]

Yeah, I wasn't planning to rush it and just serve the blonde that I am spunding now, but it occurred to me that it might be possible to serve both, so...

 

[smata67]

Just bottled a batch using re-pitched yeast, about 300B cells with a starter in 5 gallons. Got great performance this time, brought a 1.065 beer down to 1.009 for an 85% attenuation. This was an IPA mashed at 148F. A split batch with the other using Opshaug which ended at 1.020. So nice results when pitching proper quantities. I had problems with the initial use of the vial, I think it was heat stressed and may not have pitched enough, but the cake has turned out to be a winner.

 

[smata67]

Anyone still using this release of Hansen? I just bottled two batches of IPAs, one from the starter last year when it was released and the second a third generation. Both attenuated to below 1.010 with 7.5% ABV for 85% attenuation.

 

[Spin711]

I was thinking about doing my next IPA with a vial from the vault that I’m gonna have to slowly revive. How did the beers turn out?

 

[smata67]

One of the batches I just bottled came from half of a vial left over from last summer. That vial experienced heat stress during shipping. The other half of the vial at the time made a beer that stalled out at 1.025 or so. But I subsequently made two consecutive batches from re-pitching that yeast and both came out great with about 85% attenuation. No issues at all. I plan on recovering that yeast and pitch into what will be its 4th use.

I recently made a 500mL starter with the other half of the original vial (kept in the vial and now 10 or so months old) and it took 4 days to ferment out. This typically happens overnight, so definitely some serious impact from the age. And it was cidery, but so was the starter made with the other half 10 months ago. I then crashed it and pitched into a 1L starter. That fermented out in 24 hours like it should. I estimate 250B cells. Pitched this into 2.5G of a 1.073 IPA, so overpitching by about a factor of 2. That kicked off like gangbusters, 2" of krausen overnight. That beer I just bottled and sampled very nice. Got 85% attenuation on that one also.

So I have two separate yeast lines going, both apparently healthy. I have been overpitching, oxygenating, and adding yeast nutrient. And getting 1.008-1.010 finish gravity on my batches. All is well. I'd do a two stage starter if the vial is original and make sure it ferments out fully each time. The first one might be slow to start as the yeast wakes up. I am liking the results, the beers have dropped clear with a tight yeast cake. Yeast character is very clean like WLP001. A good IPA strain as advertised.

 

[whovous]

I've finished as low as 1.005 and well over 90% attenuation. It is my house yeast for now. Sadly, I am unable to brew right now and my vials are getting old.

 

[Spin711]

That’s great that you’re getting good attenuation and results from original vials and repitches. I just checked and my unopened vial best by is 9/14/2019 so I’m going to slowly revive it over a few weeks monitoring how it performs. I’m thinking of brewing a pale ale with it first so that the hops don’t overpower it too much. My first vial I experienced some bad phenolics so something in my process or the yeast health was off.

I’m going to harvest and reuse for future batches but don’t have a way to drop yeast before dry hopping (if I choose to dry hop). Has anyone top cropped this yeast? That was going to be my plan. Or I could overbuild the starter and save some but I don’t usually like doing that

 

[ba-brewer]

I slanted one of the vials I received from the last vault purge, plan to build up a slant to see how well the blended yeast slanted.

I also got some WLP090 and WLP007 and plan to see if just those two will give a same result as WLP075.

I did several repitched of WLP075 and after 3rd repitch it attenuated OK but did flocculate as well.

 

[Beer-lord]

A few weeks ago I used the last of mine in a Black IPA that I've brewed many times. It's not as good as what I usually use but it's still a tasty beer. I wish they'd make this a year round yeast.

 

[ba-brewer]

I did a 007/090 blend test to see how close it was to wlp075. First pitch I would say it behaved similar to Hansen blend, I got a attenuation about halfway between the two and quick fast ferment that dropped clear without crashing. When I repitched the blend it seems wlp090 took over as the attenuation was up in the low 80s but there was still yeast in suspension more like wlp090. This is also the behavior I get wlp075, after a few repitches the less flocking one seems to dominate.

I did do a split batch of beer and fermented half with the wlp075(from slurry) and half with the 007/090 second generation. Just kegged the beer so it will be a few weeks but I am guessing with a few extra points of attenuation they will taste a little different.

I build starter and brewed with each yeast separately before doing a blend of slurry from those brews so maybe I did not have a even mix the first pitch. If I do it again I will blend from the first starters.

 

[Nagorg]

I did a 007/090 blend test to see how close it was to wlp075. First pitch I would say it behaved similar to Hansen blend, I got a attenuation about halfway between the two and quick fast ferment that dropped clear without crashing. When I repitched the blend it seems wlp090 took over as the attenuation was up in the low 80s but there was still yeast in suspension more like wlp090. This is also the behavior I get wlp075, after a few repitches the less flocking one seems to dominate.

I did do a split batch of beer and fermented half with the wlp075(from slurry) and half with the 007/090 second generation. Just kegged the beer so it will be a few weeks but I am guessing with a few extra points of attenuation they will taste a little different.

I build starter and brewed with each yeast separately before doing a blend of slurry from those brews so maybe I did not have a even mix the first pitch. If I do it again I will blend from the first starters.

Nice... Thanks for the info on the blend. Looking forward to the tasting results.

 

[ba-brewer]

Looking thru my watch list and seen I did not report back. The two beers mentioned above turned out quite similar. It did seem though that the WLP075 half had more hop aroma but the flavors were closer. I did notice the WLP075 had a slight spiciness which I thought could of been hop bite.

I did a second test with some of the same slurries and this time around the WLP075 had a strong phenolic character. Not sure if that was the spiciness I had detected with the other beer but cant say for sure. With that in mind I really don't trust the results of the first beers that where fermented with that wlp075 yeast. I think my slants of wlp075 are toast, so I will be keeping an eye on the vault.

 

[smata67]

Anyone still making beers from this vault release? I'm hitting an imperial brown I brewed on 10/20. Got a 1.008 FG (8.5%) from it. This yeast has proven to be very hardy and highly attenuative after the first batch.

 

[ba-brewer]

I was poking around the vault and it looks like WLP075 has more request than the limit 64 of 50, It appears to still be in the pre-order stage.

 

[duncan_disorderly]

Does White Labs mail its yeasts to private addresses outside America, does anyone know? Or would they not survive the journey?

 

[Northern_Brewer]

As a headsup,

I was poking around the vault and it looks like WLP075 has more request than the limit 64 of 50, It appears to still be in the pre-order stage.

Does White Labs mail its yeasts to private addresses outside America, does anyone know? Or would they not survive the journey?

The short answer to that second question is that they won't accept non-USian credit cards, so no, their direct system really isn't set up for international retail orders. Or at least that used not to be the case.

However, I notice that according to Yeastman WLP075 is currently in production, so any White Labs stockist should be able to get it if you ask them. BrewUK used to be my go-to for that but obviously that's no longer an option, but Malt Miller are fine about it. You just have to wait until their ?monthly? order goes in.