Witbier Spices

[Chillilight]

Hi,

I am looking to brew a (Belgian) Witbier. I got the grain bill figured out but when it comes to the spices (coriander and bitter orange peel) I am a bit unsure. Recipe books say ie. Coriander and Orange Peel FOR LAST 10 MINUTES OF BOIL. Does this mean you only put the spices (ie. in spice bag) for actually only 10 minutes and then remove it or do you leave it in as well during the time to cool down the wort.

Thanks for your help.

 

[VikeMan]

For a given recipe, you'd almost really have to ask the author what they meant. Personally, I don't remove spices at flameout, for Witbiers or for any beers that I spice. I suspect that most people don't.

 

[Jag75]

I just dump them in as well in the last 5 minutes . I use 1oz of coriander . I like using the Indian coriander, it has more citrus notes . As for orange peel ive been using McCormicks Valencia orange zest . I think its in a 1.50 oz bottle . Way better then using dried orange peel imo.

 

[schmurf]

You might want to have a look at this recently published YouTube clip

 

[VikeMan]

You might want to have a look at this recently published YouTube clip

He lost me at 0:19, where he says "and candi sugar."

 

[dmtaylor]

He lost me at 0:19, where he says "and candi sugar."

And where's the ingredient that most defines the style, coriander?!

 

[Chillilight]

I just dump them in as well in the last 5 minutes . I use 1oz of coriander . I like using the Indian coriander, it has more citrus notes . As for orange peel ive been using McCormicks Valencia orange zest . I think its in a 1.50 oz bottle . Way better then using dried orange peel imo.

I guess my trouble is the difference between FOR LAST 5 MINUTES vs. AT 5 MINS. So what you are saying is, just add in 5 mins before end, then coll as you normally would (regardless how long the cooling takes)?

 

[mashpaddled]

I don't think I've seen any witbier recipes that say to remove the spices after the boil during cooling.

FWIW I only add spices at flameout when the lid goes on for cooling. I don't want to boiloff the delicate flavors of the spices.

 

[Dancy]

I am interested in the amount of spice. I am brewing a Northern Brewer witbier kit and 1 oz each of bitter orange peel and coriander are included for a 5G batch. I read an article where the author states these are often overdone. Another article recommended .75 oz of each which seems reasonable but hey, what do I know as it is my first time brewing it. Any opinions out there?

 

[MaxStout]

I recently brewed 5 gallons of Wit. I used Indian coriander (doesn't have that celery taste like the commercial stuff can). I crushed 1/2 oz and added it the last 10 minutes of the boil. Just the right amount.

Some people add a bit of chamomile for added flavor, but I've never tried it.

 

[Dr_Jeff]

I typically use an ounce of each in a five gallon batch five minutes before flame out and leave it in until the wort is transferred to the fermenter.

 

[Dancy]

I typically use an ounce of each in a five gallon batch five minutes before flame out and leave it in until the wort is transferred to the fermenter.

Thanks - I’m thinking of bumping up the recipe to 6-6.5G. I have some Pilsner DME and Bavarian DME (1/2 lb each maybe) and extra hops. Do you think that’d leave me short on coriander and bitter orange peel flavor?

 

[VikeMan]

I used Indian coriander (doesn't have that celery taste like the commercial stuff can).

Celery. Hot dog. Ham. The round mexican/european coriander can be truly awful. Just Say No to grocery store coriander, unless it's an Indian grocer and oblong coriander.

 

[Dancy]

Just Say No to grocery store coriander, unless it's an Indian grocer and oblong coriander.

Hmmm.... my coriander is from Northern Brewer and the bag doesn't say where it is from. I may buy elsewhere.

 

[MaxStout]

Hmmm.... my coriander is from Northern Brewer and the bag doesn't say where it is from. I may buy elsewhere.

If there's an Indian grocery store near you, they might have it. Otherwise, Amazon (this is the brand I bought).

 

[matt_m]

I do a Tangerine Wheat that I use 1oz of coriander that I lightly crush on brew day and 1oz of Tangerine peel both whatever the brew store has in a 5 gallon batch. I just dump them in at 5 minutes and leave them but if the coriander gets in my pump it becomes a PITA. The beer has a clear tangerine/orange flavor and makes a great summer beer.

 

[Jag75]

I use 1.25 oz of orange peel and 1 oz of Indian coriander. 5 gallon batch

 

[RM-MN]

I am interested in the amount of spice. I am brewing a Northern Brewer witbier kit and 1 oz each of bitter orange peel and coriander are included for a 5G batch. I read an article where the author states these are often overdone. Another article recommended .75 oz of each which seems reasonable but hey, what do I know as it is my first time brewing it. Any opinions out there?

What you are seeing here is that different people have different tastes. What may be the perfect amount for my palate my be overwhelming to yours or you might not even taste it. You cannot go by what someone else says is the right amount.

 

[Dancy]

I just dump them in at 5 minutes and leave them but if the coriander gets in my pump it becomes a PITA.

I have a Mash & Boil with a pump. I use a hop spider. Can I put the spices in that or is it best to use a hop sack? I thought the spices/flavors were supposed to go in the fermenter as well.

 

[Dancy]

What you are seeing here is that different people have different tastes. What may be the perfect amount for my palate my be overwhelming to yours or you might not even taste it. You cannot go by what someone else says is the right amount.

Agreed. That’s why after reading a couple of articles on brewing a witbier and considering it is my first, maybe err on the side of caution and use 3/4 oz of each. Assuming all other steps go well, it’ll likely be enjoyable to drink and I can add more next time if I think it’d be an improvement.

 

[dmtaylor]

I am interested in the amount of spice. I am brewing a Northern Brewer witbier kit and 1 oz each of bitter orange peel and coriander are included for a 5G batch. I read an article where the author states these are often overdone. Another article recommended .75 oz of each which seems reasonable but hey, what do I know as it is my first time brewing it. Any opinions out there?

I use 0.75 oz of each per 5 gallons and love it in that amount. For some it might still be too powerful. You could use as little as 0.25 oz if squeamish, or 0.5 oz if you want something just a little on the lighter end. 1 oz is a little over the top IMO.

But... if you are actually brewing 6-6.5 gallons, you could go the full 1 oz if you wanted. Or I think 0.75 oz would still be just about perfect for most people's palates.

By the way, I boil mine for the last 5 minutes. Easy peasy.

Enjoy.

 

[csantoni]

Three words: grains of paradise.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Celery. Hot dog. Ham. The round mexican/european coriander can be truly awful. Just Say No to grocery store coriander, unless it's an Indian grocer and oblong coriander.

Anybody have experience growing their own coriander? I have a plant going this year that I planted mostly for the leaves/cilantro. I am learning that you need to plant seeds in succession to keep harvesting cilantro, so I left my one plant to go to seed. The plant tag just says "Cilantro" so I guess it is the same variety as the "grocery store coriander". I was planning to use some in a beer at some point.

 

[chilitom]

I brewed Gordon Strong's recipe from Apr 2021 BYO, and it turned out really well. This recipe adds 1.8 g dried chamomile flowers, in addition to the coriander seed and bitter orange peel. I thought the chamomile added a nice character to the beer. I used 0.6 oz coriander (crushed the seeds with a rolling pin) and 0.75 oz orange peel. Probably could have gone a little higher on the spices, since they begin to fade after a few weeks. I try to judge how aromatic the coriander is when I crush it and adjust the amount accordingly. Spices were added in a mesh bag at flameout and whirlpooled for 5 minutes or so before chiiling. Removed the bag before transfer to fermenter.

 

[TLaffey]

Witbier is the one style my wife enjoys, so I make it from time to time. But the last time was 3 yrs ago now (local grocery stocks Hoegaarden), so checked my notes:

For 5.75G in the BK, I used 0.25 oz of this: Morton and Bassett Coriander. This brand is generally of good quality (fresh/strong), but I have no idea whether it's Indian. As to orange peel, I used 2.0 oz of bitter orange peel from Morebeer. I added both with 5 minutes remaining in the boil. I used Wyeast 3944.

FWIW, I have a couple of links I saved related to the boil: Witbier link 1, Witbier link 2. Allagash also has a page with recommendations.

 

[Stand]

I do 45g indian coriander, 40g bitter orange peel from more beer, and 1 bag of chamomile tea 5m before flameout. 10 gallon batch. I leave it until transfer. Witbier is so so good. Can't get enough.

 

[VikeMan]

For 5.75G in the BK, I used 0.25 oz of this: Morton and Bassett Coriander. This brand is generally of good quality (fresh/strong), but I have no idea whether it's Indian.

Sorry... I guess I'm going to have to be "that guy." Pre-ground spices, including coriander, are never "fresh." It's just not possible. A side by side sniff test between pre-ground and freshly ground (a small "vortex" type blade coffee grinder is good for this) makes it obvious.

 

[Stand]

I second this.
I crush the whole coriander in a ziplock bag with a rolling pin.

 

[dmtaylor]

I've never had bad coriander. Foreign terroir versions or varietals might be available someplace, but I've not encountered problems just buying standard "coriander" from the grocery store or LHBS.

I use the whole seeds, cracked in a Ziplock immediately prior to brewing.

 

[ITV]

From my experience with WItbier's is that the yeast plays a major roll in the "spice" flavors. Yeast selection, freshness, temperature all play a part. The spices added tend to enhance the flavors that the yeast produces.

If you get a chance, pick up a bottle of La Trappe Witte Trappist beer. It is brewed in accordance with the German Purity Law (no spices added). It is interesting to taste the different flavors created just from the yeast. According to La Trappe, they use a "house" blend of yeast for fermentation and a second type of yeast added at bottling (bottle conditioned).

 

[Dr_Jeff]

I followed the original recipe from @Wayne1 and made very few minor adjustments.

The first time I had brewed it, I brewed it because my wife said that a good friend of hers was coming to visit and his favorite beer was Blue Moon.
On the initial brew, I was a bit uncertain as to the taste, a client came by and I offered him a sample, he had told me that his favorite beer was Blue Moon, and he had a sample and told me that he thought mine was much better than Blue Moon, so I felt confident that I had hit it spot on.
I have varied that amounts of coriander and orange peel and have settled on peel from mandarin oranges, (the little cuties) and have tried White Labs WLP-400 Witbier yeast and WLP-530 Abbey yeast. Both yeasts make a good beer as does the US-05 recommended by @Wayne1.

I prefer the WLP-400 version, but it is not as versatile as WLP-530 in my opinion.
With the WLP-530, I can brew a Witbier and use the yeast as a starter for a bigger beer, such as Triple or a Quad.

When I had more time to brew, I usually tried to always keep it on tap.

I believe that in most Belgian beers, the yeast should derive/produce most of the flavors as the best recipes usually have a very simple grain bill.

 

[Sleepy_D]

Since there’s a lot of witbier brewers in here I figured I’d ask this here. I’m going to make a Belgian white cider. No boil so I’m not sure how much spice to add as it will be in the fermenter instead. Was thinking I’d go low, maybe 0.5 oz coriander and orange. What do you think?

 

[Dr_Jeff]

Since there’s a lot of witbier brewers in here I figured I’d ask this here. I’m going to make a Belgian white cider. No boil so I’m not sure how much spice to add as it will be in the fermenter instead. Was thinking I’d go low, maybe 0.5 oz coriander and orange. What do you think?

I've never considered one, but it sounds tasty, and I enjoy Belgian beers (my favorites).
Please report back on how it turns out, as I may give it a try.
I believe that the boiling helps to bring out the aromatics in the spice.

So you are planning on using a Belgian yeast? Which one?

That would be a good starting point, as you could always up the quantity on the next batch.

You said, no boil, but i believe that I would bring a gallon or so up to a simmer, add the spices, and simmer for five minutes or so, then add all of it to the fermenter along with the rest of the juice and whatever else.

Good luck, with a beer yeast, it should finish fast and clear up fast as well.


Great Idea

 

[Sleepy_D]

I've never considered one, but it sounds tasty, and I enjoy Belgian beers (my favorites).
Please report back on how it turns out, as I may give it a try.
I believe that the boiling helps to bring out the aromatics in the spice.

So you are planning on using a Belgian yeast? Which one?

That would be a good starting point, as you could always up the quantity on the next batch.

You said, no boil, but i believe that I would bring a gallon or so up to a simmer, add the spices, and simmer for five minutes or so, then add all of it to the fermenter along with the rest of the juice and whatever else.

Good luck, with a beer yeast, it should finish fast and clear up fast as well.


Great Idea

Thanks for the response!

I’m not 100% on the yeast selection yet as I haven’t used a Belgian on a cider before. A lot of people like belle saison yeast for ciders but I’m not sure if that character is what I’m going for. Looks like some people have had good success with t-58 but I haven’t found anyone who spiced it like a witbier too. I’ll probably end up going with the t-58 and if it’s overwhelming I’ll try again sometime with the belle saison.

I think boiling is generally a no no with cider as it can cause haze and off flavors. If boiling is really that important I’ll most likely do it in a small amount of water and add that to the juice. I don’t know a lot about the science of the importance of the boil in this so that is good information!

Also I can’t take all the credit on this, woodchuck used to do a Belgian white seasonal cider

 

[Dr_Jeff]

Thanks for the response!

I’m not 100% on the yeast selection yet as I haven’t used a Belgian on a cider before. A lot of people like belle saison yeast for ciders but I’m not sure if that character is what I’m going for. Looks like some people have had good success with t-58 but I haven’t found anyone who spiced it like a witbier too. I’ll probably end up going with the t-58 and if it’s overwhelming I’ll try again sometime with the belle saison.

I think boiling is generally a no no with cider as it can cause haze and off flavors. If boiling is really that important I’ll most likely do it in a small amount of water and add that to the juice. I don’t know a lot about the science of the importance of the boil in this so that is good information!

Also I can’t take all the credit on this, woodchuck used to do a Belgian white seasonal cider

Maybe boil some water and sugar, and add the spices to it, then add that mixture to the fermenter.

I've read about hopped cider as well, but never tried it.