Quantcast

Wiring schematic help

HomeBrewTalk.com - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Community.

Help Support Homebrew Talk:

BigJay13

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2007
Messages
219
Reaction score
7
Hi All,

I bought a partially built panel off another HBTer and want to change the plans. I, however, don’t have the experience to plan out the diagram effectively. I attached what I’ve been working with: 240V 50A panel with two pumps and two 5500v elements. The original plan was to run the HLT PID as normal, to run a pump off the mash PID to control mash temp through a herms coil,’and the boil PID is just a dial controller without a temp readout.

i have a two level stand with the HLT above the mashtun with a port draining directly into it. I would like to power a 120V RIMS tube instead of a pump to control mash temp with the pump running off the switch. I’ll keep the 5500v elements in the HLT and BK.

I need help determining the size of the breakers needed; how to take the MLT PID and make it work as a stand alone unit all while making the wort pump switch work with a push button; as a bonus I have an alarm and the tower of power flow meter I’d like to hook up and could use the water pump bottom on the face of the box for that.

I can follow directions I just can’t design them haha.
C8ECAC2D-E9D1-4006-8F34-754F570FD11C.jpeg
 
Last edited:

doug293cz

BIABer, Beer Math Nerd, ePanel Designer, Pilot
Staff member
Mod
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
May 14, 2014
Messages
11,002
Reaction score
7,129
Location
Renton
...

i have a two level stand with the HLT above the mashtun with a port draining directly into it. I would like to power a 120V RIMS tube instead of a pump to control mash temp with the pump running off the switch. I’ll keep the 5500v elements in the HLT and BK.

I need help determining the size of the breakers needed; how to take the MLT PID and make it work as a stand alone unit all while making the wort pump switch work with a push button; as a bonus I have an alarm and the tower of power flow meter I’d like to hook up and could use the water pump bottom on the face of the box for that.

...
You will not be able to run two 5500W elements and a third element at the same time on a 50A circuit. Therefore, you will need to add a selector switch that allows only two of the elements to be enabled at one time. IIRC this can be done with an Auber SW3 three way switch with two NO and two NC contact blocks. You will still need to have the individual element enable switches for each element.

The RIMS control portion of the system will be wired similar to the HLT control portion, except it will have one hot and neutral instead of two hots. It will only need a single pole circuit breaker on the one hot. The rating of the breaker will depend on the power of the element chosen for the RIMS. The (third) SSR will control the hot wire to the RIMS element. You will also have to route the power to the RIMS element enable switch thru the RIMS pump switch so that the element cannot be enabled unless the pump is on.

When you say you want the wort pump to work with a push button, do you mean a momentary contact, so that the pump only runs while the button is held in?

Not sure what you mean with the phrase highlighted in red.

Brew on :mug:
 
OP
B

BigJay13

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2007
Messages
219
Reaction score
7
Thank you for the reply! If I ran a 60amp gfci bow could I forgo the three way switch?

I’ll snap pics of the flow meter and the alarm because I realize that would be helpful. Basically I want the flow meter to kill power to the element when the flow drops to prevent scorching. The alarm would buzz letting me know the flow dropped.
 

doug293cz

BIABer, Beer Math Nerd, ePanel Designer, Pilot
Staff member
Mod
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
May 14, 2014
Messages
11,002
Reaction score
7,129
Location
Renton
A 60A feed would support up to a 1000W RIMS element running along side of two 5500W elements. A 60A feed will also require 4AWG wire for structure wiring and panel feed cord. I think adding the three way switch would be cheaper than the heavier wiring. Or, you could leave out the three way switch and just let the breaker trip if you forget and turn all three elements on at once (and you will do this.)

I'll see if I can find the diagram that shows how to wire the 3-way switch.

Brew on :mug:
 
OP
B

BigJay13

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2007
Messages
219
Reaction score
7
Ha I was thinking of just letting the breaker trip when I screw up! I was just given a 1500w 120v element that I’ll try in the rims tube for now. I’ll stick with the 50AMP service and just make it work.
 

RufusBrewer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2015
Messages
281
Reaction score
81
Location
Nashville
IMHO A proper design does not rely solely on the breaker to operate as required.

If you never ever want a constitution to exist and you can prevent that condition with a switch, then purchase and install the switch.
 

doug293cz

BIABer, Beer Math Nerd, ePanel Designer, Pilot
Staff member
Mod
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
May 14, 2014
Messages
11,002
Reaction score
7,129
Location
Renton
This is what the "Any 2 of 3" switch wiring looks like:

Any 2 of 3 Switch.PNG


When the switch is in the:
Down position: Elements 1 & 2 are enabled​
Center position: Elements 2 & 3 are enabled​
Up position: Elements 1 & 3 are enabled​
Brew on :mug:
 
OP
B

BigJay13

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2007
Messages
219
Reaction score
7
So I ended up scraping the rims tube idea and am doing it as designed as a Herms system. I have the whole thing wired but I want to test everything before I get the power to it. What is the best way/protocol for checking everything?
 

doug293cz

BIABer, Beer Math Nerd, ePanel Designer, Pilot
Staff member
Mod
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
May 14, 2014
Messages
11,002
Reaction score
7,129
Location
Renton
So I ended up scraping the rims tube idea and am doing it as designed as a Herms system. I have the whole thing wired but I want to test everything before I get the power to it. What is the best way/protocol for checking everything?
This advice is too late to help you, but the best way is to build incrementally, from the power input side, and test as you build. For example, wire up the main power switch (including any safe start switches) and main power contactor coil, but don't connect the output side of the main contactor yet. Then test that the power up circuitry works (contactor operates and provides voltage on its output terminals.) Then proceed to add one piece of functionality at a time and test it (e.g. add a PID and check that it powers up and reads temps correctly.) Continue in a logical sequence.

Note that element firing lamps in parallel with the elements will light up even when the SSR's are off, if the elements are not connected to the control panel outputs.

If you have everything put together before you start testing, then get a copy of the design, and trace each wire from end to end. Check each wire off on the design copy as you verify it. With a multimeter, and power disconnected, you can check that each pair of switch contacts behaves as expected. Check continuity from the far ends of the wires connected to the switch terminals, so as to also verify the wires are connected.

Brew on :mug:
 
OP
B

BigJay13

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2007
Messages
219
Reaction score
7
Thanks Doug! Started doing it and when I tested the boil and HLT contactors themselves they came back as open loop. Everything else, so far, seems to be functioning as usual. Before I pull my hair out does that sound normal?
 

doug293cz

BIABer, Beer Math Nerd, ePanel Designer, Pilot
Staff member
Mod
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
May 14, 2014
Messages
11,002
Reaction score
7,129
Location
Renton
Thanks Doug! Started doing it and when I tested the boil and HLT contactors themselves they came back as open loop. Everything else, so far, seems to be functioning as usual. Before I pull my hair out does that sound normal?
Need to know details about how you actually tested the BK & HLT contactors to answer your question.

Brew on :mug:
 
OP
B

BigJay13

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2007
Messages
219
Reaction score
7
I literally put one electrode on the incoming red wire and one on the outgoing wire on either side of the contactor. Everything else on either side of the contactor is good to go so far.
 

doug293cz

BIABer, Beer Math Nerd, ePanel Designer, Pilot
Staff member
Mod
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
May 14, 2014
Messages
11,002
Reaction score
7,129
Location
Renton
I literally put one electrode on the incoming red wire and one on the outgoing wire on either side of the contactor. Everything else on either side of the contactor is good to go so far.
Was the contactor coil energized? If not, then you should read open across the contactor contact pairs.

Brew on :mug:
 
OP
B

BigJay13

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2007
Messages
219
Reaction score
7
Was the contactor coil energized? If not, then you should read open across the contactor contact pairs.

Brew on :mug:
No it wasn’t. Didn’t want to energize it without checking things first. Also I don’t have the power supply finished yet. I’m also a little leary about having 220 open and energized while I have my hands inside the panel. If possible I’d rather test things without the power on.
 
Top