Quantcast

Wiring PID to a shutoff valve

HomeBrewTalk.com - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Community.

Help Support Homebrew Talk:

msal

Active Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2012
Messages
28
Reaction score
4
Location
Effingham
Hey all, I am working on putting together a small proof-of-concept controller for a local brewer based on some parts he had purchased. I've put together my own Electric Brewing controller (their BIAB kit) and built a few control boxes based on STC-1000s, but I wouldn't call myself an expert by any means. At the moment, I've got a temperature controller that I would like to control a Asco shutoff valve with.

Parts:
Solo SL4848-RR Temperator Controller
Asco Red-Hat II Shutoff Valve, 8210G009

I think he (the brewer) was under the impression that the PID could be hooked up directly to the shutoff valve. According to the controller quick start guide, the output for this unit is "Relay - SPST". My limited understanding is that this means the controller should be hooked up to either an intermediate SSR or a Contactor, which would then be connected to the valve itself. On top of that, it's much cheaper to replace a relay than a controller if something blows. Based on my reading, an SSR would be better than a contactor normally with temperature control due to higher precision. I don't know if that makes sense in this case though, since the valve will either be open or closed (not throttled at 50% for example, like a ULWD electric element).

I took a few pictures, but had problems uploading them to the post. I've uploaded them to imgur here: https://imgur.com/a/I0R9g

Any feedback is appreciated. I'm wondering if it's as simple as buying a cheap inkbird SSR on Amazon and hooking things up, or if there are things I'm not considering (probably!).
 

Inspire

Active Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2017
Messages
29
Reaction score
5
The valve just needs a switch to turn it on/off. You should be able to connect directly to the temperature controller. But check the current and voltage to make sure everything's good. SSR and Relays are usually for high Current devices. That valve open/close, as long as you have enough voltage and current to activate it, the temp controller can connect direct to the valve. Just like how you set up a Fermentation Chamber with a fridge/freezer, you don't use a relay or ssr, just connect it to the temp controller the Hot and Cold source.

So your temp controller needs to trigger the valve to open/close - direct connection should be ok but check your current and voltage ratings.
 
Joined
Aug 20, 2010
Messages
955
Reaction score
112
Location
Clearwater, FL
I have heard of people hooking PID to a solenoid valve, could be lots of clicking if they are on a small system, but they work.

I do not see what you will be putting through it, it it is wort, and has any chance of grain or trub, just don't... just don't... these are not sanitary by a long shot and have small ports that will catch solids...

Other motorized valves are actual ball valves and would work better for pretty much anything but city water supply...

For finer control, a bit more expensive, and a bit more involved would be a Sestos D1S-CR analog output PID Controller and VA9104-GGA-2S Johnson proportional ball valve... you will also need a 24v transformer
 
OP
msal

msal

Active Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2012
Messages
28
Reaction score
4
Location
Effingham
Hey guys, thanks for the responses. The valve has a power rating of 6.1 watts and if I'm understanding correctly the output is capable of 1250 watts. A relay is looking pretty pointless. So, this would be for glycol. The brewery just had Johnson controls installed as a temporary solution, which go through a 24v transformer to the valves. I'm going to put together a control box for them to replace the controls, that's the plan (as of yesterday). I've got a buddy who is an electrician and plan to run all my decisions through him at this point. The box will just be for controlling the valves. The glycol system is a first-in-last-out loop, with an overflow valve and a pump that runs continuously. Pretty cool project, I'll be getting paid in beer :mug:.
 
Joined
Aug 20, 2010
Messages
955
Reaction score
112
Location
Clearwater, FL
Should be simple, but they could have a code inspector ding them at a later date for 120v not being 100% up to code. 24v has its benefits..

That being said, if you are safe and follow all safety protocols for dealing with 120V, and using the pinout at https://cdn.automationdirect.com/static/manuals/solocontrolm/solocontrolm.pdf


you could wire:
pins 1 and 11 to L1 (120V)
pin 12 to Neutral
pin 2 to valve wire 1
valve wire 2 to neutral

Set Cooling hysteresis 'CtS' to 1 degree F
Set Control mode 'Ctrl' to on/off
Set Heating / Cooling to 'CooL'

that should do it, but not sure what you are gaining by doing it this way...

IMHO, if you took a $10 raspberry pi zero, a $10microSD, a $20 8 5V relay board, and a $20 power supply and put them in a $20 carlon plastic box and gave them web control of 8 fermenters via CraftBeerPi, I would see it as being worth it... hell, I would rather do the pi than cut the square hole for the PID...
 
Joined
Dec 19, 2014
Messages
5,342
Reaction score
1,516
Location
West Palm Beach
Admittedly I am not following this thread well (heating/cooling), but the SPST (Single Pole Single Throw) relay can handle the power requirement of the valve. No intermediate SSR or relay is needed.

That said, using a PID algorithm for a basic brew heating system will have its challenges. You need to program it to reduce the cycle time dramatically. I would probably be inclined to use a basic thermostat (hysteresis) and make sure the measurement / recirculation is rapid enough to keep temperatures uniform and reduce over/under shoots.
 
OP
msal

msal

Active Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2012
Messages
28
Reaction score
4
Location
Effingham
Should be simple, but they could have a code inspector ding them at a later date for 120v not being 100% up to code. 24v has its benefits..

That being said, if you are safe and follow all safety protocols for dealing with 120V, and using the pinout at https://cdn.automationdirect.com/static/manuals/solocontrolm/solocontrolm.pdf


you could wire:
pins 1 and 11 to L1 (120V)
pin 12 to Neutral
pin 2 to valve wire 1
valve wire 2 to neutral

Set Cooling hysteresis 'CtS' to 1 degree F
Set Control mode 'Ctrl' to on/off
Set Heating / Cooling to 'CooL'

that should do it, but not sure what you are gaining by doing it this way...

IMHO, if you took a $10 raspberry pi zero, a $10microSD, a $20 8 5V relay board, and a $20 power supply and put them in a $20 carlon plastic box and gave them web control of 8 fermenters via CraftBeerPi, I would see it as being worth it... hell, I would rather do the pi than cut the square hole for the PID...
Yea, I see what you mean. I think they're dead set on doing it one way (they already have the case, PIDs, etc). I'll have to check out CraftBeerPi just out of curiosity, I've only looked briefly into BrewPi. The PIDs have some proprietary software that you can run I think, but you have to be hard wired to each PID. I thought about trying to access the data (if it's not in some crazy proprietary format) and shoot it off to a web server. It's probably not worth reinventing the wheel though when something off the shelf is available (e.g. CraftBeerPi).

At this point my original question has been answered. Things... evolved the past few days haha. Thanks for the help though everyone!
 
Top