Wiring assistance - single PID/SSR single kettle setup

[P-J]

Screw-Cap Panel-Mount Fuse Holder - RadioShack.com

 

[P-J]

That is great, thanks so much this is a tremendous help. One question...Will the LED light on the element Auber switch continuously be on if it has power? I'm thinking that it would be nice to show when there is power to the element and when it is actually in use, for safety reasons.

The Switch light will be on when the switch is on. BTW: It would be rather complicated to set up an indicator light that shows when there is actual power being delivered to the element. You could wire a 240V lamp directly across the element connection. It would have to be after the element plug so that you do not get a false signal.

 

[jkjod]

How about this?

As always - click on the image to see a full scale diagram printable on Tabloid paper (11" x 17")

So I guess really the Auber push buttons are not really necessary in this case - i can just use a regular switch wire in the light to tell me when the element is on. Same for the PID as well - one to give it power, one to turn on/off the alarm, and the actual alarm itself.

It seems that the Auber push buttons just add in an extra part and just racking up the price.

 

[P-J]

So I guess really the Auber push buttons are not really necessary in this case - i can just use a regular switch wire in the light to tell me when the element is on. Same for the PID as well - one to give it power, one to turn on/off the alarm, and the actual alarm itself.

It seems that the Auber push buttons just add in an extra part and just racking up the price.

Whatever you say. I just spent a bunch of time trying to accomodate your request. Now it's all up to you.

 

[jkjod]

I'm not trying to be difficult, sorry - the drawing is absolutely great and as I said it will be a tremendous help.

 

[P-J]

I'm not trying to be difficult, sorry - the drawing is absolutely great and as I said it will be a tremendous help.

You specified your wishes. I designed the drawing to those paramareters.

Now you don't like it because????

You wanted all of those illuminated switches to indicate 'stuff'. I complied. You wanted indicator lites for additional 'stuff'.
NOW - you don't like it because of the cost???

You think it's easy to develop a drawing? I do it free hand. My base file for your drawing is 10 megabites is size. It is composed of thousands of bits and pieces. YOU try it...
You are on your own. I'm way over the top & very pissed off.!!!!
I'm done.

I just hope your brew rig turns out ok for you with your plan.

 

[Stevo2569]

You specified your wishes. I designed the drawing to those paramareters.

Now you don't like it because????

You wanted all of those illuminated switches to indicate 'stuff'. I complied. You wanted indicator lites for additional 'stuff'.
NOW - you don't like it because of the cost???

You think it's easy to develop a drawing? I do it free hand. My base file for your drawing is 10 megabites is size. It is composed of thousands of bits and pieces. YOU try it...
You are on your own. I'm way over the top & very pissed off.!!!!
I'm done.

I just hope your brew rig turns out ok for you with your plan.

Damn PJ
Ease up. He said he's sorry and it is a great help. If it helps I'm probably going to use part of it too.

 

[P-J]

Damn PJ
Ease up. He said he's sorry and it is a great help. If it helps I'm probably going to use part of it too.

Thanks...

I'm just aggravated and need to settle down.

My drawing development is taken very seriously by me. Apparently some people think it is done by "Pluck your magic Twanger" methods and can be done in just moments of time.

 

[P-J]

Stevo2569,

By the way, I could have made the drawing with a MUCH cheaper outcome using standard switches instead of the illuminated switches. That would have eliminated the contactors and a bunch of other stuff as well. AND - I know I have a diagram for that design already drawn.

That would have saved me a bunch of my time that was thrown into the trash can - Because...?

Still upset.

So Sorry...... I'll let it die now.

 

[Stevo2569]

Thanks...

I'm just aggravated and need to settle down.

My drawing development is taken very seriously by me. Apparently some people think it is done by "Pluck your magic Twanger" methods and can be done in just moments of time.

I hear ya. I know "Plucking your magic twanger" takes a little time even with good software. Which I don't have right now.

 

[GelatinousSlime]

This diagram is also exactly what I was looking for. Even if the original requester decided not to use it, it still adds to the wonderful collection of knowledge contained in this forum.

 

[lzrdkng14]

This diagram is also exactly what I was looking for. Even if the original requester decided not to use it, it still adds to the wonderful collection of knowledge contained in this forum.

+1 to this

 

[Max232]

Yes, + 1 on the drawings you made. I have been reading so much info lately on this stuff, I am in overload I have picked up a spa panel today( still have alot of stuff to get.)

I am printing all these drawings to help me decide how I want to build my system.

P-J, your efforts and time are very much appreciated

 

[scuba76]

Awesome work on the drawings pj, your help is much appreciated.

 

[scuba76]

Would it be possible to add in a 240v contactor with 120v coil after the ssr and use all 120v/15 amp switches for the element and pid?

 

[P-J]

Would it be possible to add in a 240v contactor with 120v coil after the ssr and use all 120v/15 amp switches for the element and pid?

That is already shown in this thread.

Here is a link to it:
Post #58

 

[smoothlarryhughes]

Hi PJ...I was wondering if you could do a quick explanation of how the current flows on this diagram...just curious about the ground connection where the heater element plugs in. I thought the 3 prong was supposed to be 2 hot and a neutral, but this is connected to ground.

Thanks!

Thanks for that.

Psych,

I didn't have one that exactly fit your description so I made this one up for you:
(Click the image for a full scale diagram that can be printed on tabloid paper 11" x 17")




Hope this helps.

 

[P-J]

Hi PJ...I was wondering if you could do a quick explanation of how the current flows on this diagram...just curious about the ground connection where the heater element plugs in. I thought the 3 prong was supposed to be 2 hot and a neutral, but this is connected to ground.

Thanks!

The 240V heating element is powered using 240V and equipment ground. The ground is connected to the element frame and the kettle. If it carries any current (due to a fault) the GFCI feed breaker will trip. In other words it is not a neutral but equipment ground.

P-J

 

[smoothlarryhughes]

Thanks P-J...can you incorporate an on/off switch for the whole panel in this diagram?

 

[smoothlarryhughes]

Actually I found this diagram showing a switch for the PID power...i'm assuming if the PID doesn't get power there is no way for the element to be powered...correct?

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/simple-electric-build-pros-276477/

 

[Stevo2569]

Actually I found this diagram showing a switch for the PID power...i'm assuming if the PID doesn't get power there is no way for the element to be powered...correct?

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/simple-electric-build-pros-276477/

Correct. Mine is wired similar with a switch to the PID and an override switch to the element as well. I can read temps without adjusting the set point to turn off the element.

 

[smoothlarryhughes]

Correct. Mine is wired similar with a switch to the PID and an override switch to the element as well. I can read temps without adjusting the set point to turn off the element.

do you have the diagram for your setup? i'd like to turn the panel off if needed. at first my setup will only be the boil kettle, but eventually i'd like to add the HLT as well.

 

[Stevo2569]

No
But it's pretty much the same as posted with the additional inline switch. Maybe PJ can chime In with his expertise. I'm more of a hands on kinda guy.

 

[Jps101]

Very simple question for the gang. Why is it necessary to have a switch for the pid? Is there a reason for this not to be powered up? I understand having a switch on element and pump for instance. But I cannot see the reason for having power to pid. Thanks.

 

[P-J]

Very simple question for the gang. Why is it necessary to have a switch for the pid? Is there a reason for this not to be powered up? I understand having a switch on element and pump for instance. But I cannot see the reason for having power to pid. Thanks.

I generally include a switch for the PID(s) to power it (them) down. This way the other functions available with the controller can be used without potential problems - like dry firing a heating element because a different function was not accounted for at the moment.

Other functions? The use of the pumps during your chilling process and moving the wort to the fermentor.

Hey: If you don't want to have it... No problem... Don't wire it... It is not a critical issue, just something I place to help prevent a disaster.

P-J

 

[Stevo2569]

Very simple question for the gang. Why is it necessary to have a switch for the pid? Is there a reason for this not to be powered up? I understand having a switch on element and pump for instance. But I cannot see the reason for having power to pid. Thanks.

Not absolutely necessary. Why have a switch on your bedroom light? It could just stay on all the time. Unless your using the plug to shut it down. Which in case works but not the preferred way to terminate power.
Of coarse you could wire a single switch inline with the PID and the element.
This coming from a guy who has switches on switches. Cause I like to be double sure before activating power.

 

[Jps101]

Kind of what I figured. But wanted to hear from those that have already done the work. Thanks to all of you for your collective assistance with these projects.

 

[snowtires]

Im planning on copying psychs build and i saw this page posted to his BIAB build page. I love the diagram, even i can figure it out. The only difference is i want to add a plug for a pump, so from looking at the other diagram i can add a 10 amp fuse from line 1 to a switch to an outlet. Can i use regular light switches for the pump and PID power? and any reason why this wouldn't be a good idea? Thanks

 

[snowtires]

Like this, and can i add a light to the pump between the switch and the outlet like the same as the light at the element? this is going to be perfect. oh forget the light switches, these switches are much cheaper then i expected. Thanks for all the info

 

[Psych]

Yeah I actually wired in a regular power socket, just split off one of the hot legs and the neutral and ground. So I now have a power socket on my box-o-power for my fan.

I'd presume a pump would be the same, not like some crazy amperage needs. And therefore any switch that met the amperage requirements of the pump (or pid) would work for you.

One thing I'd watch for is a light wired in series (I think) between the switch and the pump or whatever. It didn't work for me between my switch and my SSR, though that may be something weird with the SSR. But you can totally just split off the 'out' from the switch, sorta. So in parallel your switch when turned on will send power on one set of wires to your light, and on another set of wires to your pump or whatever. Same end result, when pump has power so does the light, just not wired in series.

But hey I'm FAR from an electrician so it may just work in series, who knows