Will this cheap 3500 watt induction burner work?

[tmendick]

I have a different wiring question. I have a 30a 110 RV outlet in my garage, is there an easy-ish way to adapt/convert it to work with the Avantco 3500?

 

[AnOldUR]

If the receptacle is 30A, they should have used 10-2 wire. More than enough. If you have room in your panel, replace the 30A 120V breaker with a 20A 240V breaker and change the wall receptacle to a 20A 240V (NEMA 6-20R). Make sure there is nothing else on the circuit!

I don't know if you consider this work to be "easy-ish"? :cross:

 

[AnOldUR]

Quick Update: Had this burner going since March 2013 and on my 30th batch last night the internal fuse blew. I opened it up and soldered a wire over it temporarily but will have to find another fuse or breaker to replace it.

Cheers,
Eric

Eric, have you had this problem again? Or anyone else?

Asking because mine blew yesterday and I'm worried that it's an indication that there's something else wrong. Once you replaced the fuse did it continue to work as before?

I also have a question about the fuse. I had a 15 amp fuse at home and just replaced the old one and am doing a test boil. Not up to a boil yet, but it appears to be fine. What I'm worried about is that the fuse on the left is the original and the one on the right is what I used to replace it. They are very different, but I don't know enough about fuses to know what that difference is. Anyone?

 

[brewguyver]

Full power boil at 9 gallons - not too shabby (I may actually need to turn it down)

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1422225227.771708.jpg

 

[MerlinWerks]

Eric, have you had this problem again? Or anyone else?

Asking because mine blew yesterday and I'm worried that it's an indication that there's something else wrong. Once you replaced the fuse did it continue to work as before?

I also have a question about the fuse. I had a 15 amp fuse at home and just replaced the old one and am doing a test boil. Not up to a boil yet, but it appears to be fine. What I'm worried about is that the fuse on the left is the original and the one on the right is what I used to replace it. They are very different, but I don't know enough about fuses to know what that difference is. Anyone?

The one on the left appears to be a "slo-blo" your replacement appears to be standard. Should be no safety issues, as long as the replacement has the same current/voltage rating. However, your replacement may blow a little easier during normal use...

 

[MerlinWerks]

Full power boil at 9 gallons - not too shabby (I may actually need to turn it down)

View attachment 251543

Awesome Kyle, glad you got things up and running :rockin:

Out of curiosity what kettle are you using?

 

[AfroHopster]

got most everything set up 49° degree water to nice boil in about 67 minutes

View attachment 1422234370177.jpg

 

[brettwasbtd]

Eric, have you had this problem again? Or anyone else?

Asking because mine blew yesterday and I'm worried that it's an indication that there's something else wrong. Once you replaced the fuse did it continue to work as before?

I also have a question about the fuse. I had a 15 amp fuse at home and just replaced the old one and am doing a test boil. Not up to a boil yet, but it appears to be fine. What I'm worried about is that the fuse on the left is the original and the one on the right is what I used to replace it. They are very different, but I don't know enough about fuses to know what that difference is. Anyone?

If others want to prevent a blown fuse should we just not run it at 3500 watts? Or does that really have no affect?

 

[AnOldUR]

Brewed my first batch on the Avantco 2/26/12. That was 73 beers ago. A lot of that was at 3500W. Why it picked this time to blow the fuse, I don't know, but it won't stop me from continuing to use full power. Especially for boils in the 13 gallon range.

That said, the fuse blowing 10 minutes into the boil really ruined my brewday. Got through it, but not fun.

 

[AfroHopster]

induction ready as well in Costco if anyone is interested

View attachment 1422288717728.jpg

 

[brewguyver]

Awesome Kyle, glad you got things up and running :rockin:

Out of curiosity what kettle are you using?

It's a bru-gear 10 gallon pro-boiler. I'm pretty happy with it so far (got that and a 14 gallon conical from their kickstarter for 550). I have noticed a little bottom warping and some of the center ring deposits others have called out. I'll be keeping an eye on that and reporting back.

 

[sumbrewindude]

Eric, have you had this problem again? Or anyone else?

Asking because mine blew yesterday and I'm worried that it's an indication that there's something else wrong. Once you replaced the fuse did it continue to work as before?

I also have a question about the fuse. I had a 15 amp fuse at home and just replaced the old one and am doing a test boil. Not up to a boil yet, but it appears to be fine. What I'm worried about is that the fuse on the left is the original and the one on the right is what I used to replace it. They are very different, but I don't know enough about fuses to know what that difference is. Anyone?

Just a standard slow blow 15A fuse.

What strikes me about the picture, though (if it is the fuse in question) is that if you notice there's no carbon tracking on the fuse tube, which would indicate a fast blow or over-current situation. This fuse is still relatively okay, other than it's open, which would mean that it's a fatigue blow and indicative of a fuse that's close to it's operating limit and being repeatedly cycled - which considering if you're trying to draw an actual 3500W out of a 15A, 240VAC circuit you're bang on the edge of the fuse's rating. You should never uprate a fuse to protect the downstream electronics, but with a NEMA 6-20P plug (20A) on the unit itself, I'd feel comfortable uprating the fuse to 18A, which would get it off the fuse's current limit, so to speak.

TLDR, Replace the fuse with another slowblow and continue using it, but be aware that cycling the unit at max power will degrade the life of the fuse as listed.

Makes me wonder what they put in my 1800W unit, I'll bet you money it's a 15A also.

 

[AnOldUR]

Replace the fuse with another slowblow and continue using it, but be aware that cycling the unit at max power will degrade the life of the fuse as listed.

I was having trouble locating a 15amp 250V slowblow fuse locally. Even on-line the closest I could find to the original was a 15amp 250V Ceramic-Tube, Time Delay from McMaster-Carr. I couldn't find a lot of information about the difference between the glass and ceramic tube. Also only guessing that time delay is the same as slowblow?

 

[sumbrewindude]

They're really close - they do about the same thing, where some versions of the time delay fuse can be specifically ordered to allow a certain amount of inrush current for things like motors/ballists/high capacitance/etc - anything with a high surge current that will stabilize at a lower current after the initial inrush is done.

The underlying concern here, IMO, is that the fuse had a fatigue failure which would indicate that the fuse's maximum rating is at the edge of the working current of the unit. It'll blow again, when I'm not sure as the current load and ambient temp in the unit will effect that lifespan, but there's not a doubt in my mind that it will.

 

[AnOldUR]

It'll blow again, when I'm not sure as the current load and ambient temp in the unit will effect that lifespan, but there's not a doubt in my mind that it will.

A kind of disclaimer here. I did do something stupid. I tried using an induction diffusion plate to even out the heat on my thin walled Bayou kettle. The Avantco threw out an over temperature error and stopped working after about 10 minutes, but recovered once it cooled down. Sent the diffusion plate back to Amazon. The fuse blew a few days after that, 10 minutes into the boil using just the kettle. Do you think using the plate earlier could have caused the fuses to weaken?

 

[sumbrewindude]

A kind of disclaimer here. I did do something stupid. I tried using an induction diffusion plate to even out the heat on my thin walled Bayou kettle. The Avantco threw out an over temperature error and stopped working after about 10 minutes, but recovered once it cooled down. Sent the diffusion plate back to Amazon. The fuse blew a few days after that, 10 minutes into the boil using just the kettle. Do you think using the plate earlier could have caused the fuses to weaken?

Completely possible. It probably was trying to heat both items and the draw through the unit was enough to stress or weaken the fuse which lead to it's demise later when you tried to run it full bore with just the pot. The fact it went into alarm should tell you that the hob saw it was taking on too much current and heating itself up beyond safe working margins so it shut it self down.

Those diffusion plates are bad news. I'm in the camp that thinks that thin wall pots are better for boiling in than thick bottom pots when it comes to induction. Only down side is that you'll get the scum ring on the bottom of the pot because that's where it's hottest. The thicker tri-clads offer a more uniform heat distribution, but I'm not sold on the fact that they boil faster.

Energy in/energy out, the thicker the bottom you'll loose some of that energy to heating the aluminum sandwich instead of dumping that heat immediately into the medium (water).

Everyone's got an opinion - that's mine.

 

[jasone]

I bought this Induction burner a week ago and brewed a Northern English Brown with it, it boiled 8 Gal of wort at a decent boil..it wasn't vigorous but it worked none the less. I used my MoreBeer brew kettle with it and it worked great.

 

[AnOldUR]

Everyone's got an opinion - that's mine.

Before buying my Avantco back in the beginning of 2012, I did some research and came to the same conclusion, that thin wall was actually better for induction efficiency than clad. The trouble I've had is that the "scum ring on the bottom of the pot" can turn to black scorch with a high rye content.

Hopefully one last question. There's disk above the induction coil inside the hob. It contacts a large fiberglass looking plate in the top when assembled. There's what looks like thermal paste at the contact point. Should new paste be applied before re-assembly?

Curious what the purpose of the grease is. Could it be there for heat transfer for the over heat sensor? Or is there another reason it's there.

 

[sumbrewindude]

Curious what the purpose of the grease is. Could it be there for heat transfer for the over heat sensor? Or is there another reason it's there.

That's my understanding of the circuit - that would be the sensor to approximate the temp of the pot/plate for that mode of the unit. The thermal paste is just the conductive coupler for the sensor. I'm not sure I'd worry about applying more grease if you've got a good gob on it. Be careful with that piece, though, it's plastic and has a very light spring in it - all the heat from use makes it brittle and it will break up into a mess if you booger around with it too much.

AFA the scorching, I can see where that would be an issue - is it happening on the recirc or during boil? I've had issues with rye also, but I've never scorched a batch.

 

[AnOldUR]

AFA the scorching, I can see where that would be an issue - is it happening on the recirc or during boil? I've had issues with rye also, but I've never scorched a batch.

At first I thought to was from recirculating while whirlpooling after the boil. I was setting the induction hob temperature to hold 170 degrees during a 45 minute hop stand. When it would cycle on, I could here a bubbling noise which I took to be the source of the scorching. But for my last rye beer, I didn't apply any heat during the hop stand and still got the scorching, so it mush have developed during the boil. This is never a problem when I've brewed with grain bills of barley or even up to 50% wheat. Only rye.

Something that I'm sure is contributing to the problem is that I use a false bottom in my boil kettle to eliminate draining problems when using whole hops (see my avatar). It's got to be concentrating the heat under the false bottom during boiling.

 

[sumbrewindude]

That could be - not necessarily concentrating the heat per say, but preventing the protein/trub laden wort from circulating as well through the pot and trapping it near the pot/element. It can't escape and move with the rest of the wort to disperse evenly through the boil, so it collects and gets trapped, and scorches.

Any chance you could remove the false bottom and use a hop spider/sack for a rye batch and see if that clears the issue?

 

[The_Bishop]

I'd be willing to bet that removing the false bottom will remedy the scorching problem.

 

[Siberian]

If others want to prevent a blown fuse should we just not run it at 3500 watts? Or does that really have no affect?

No effect. Mine has 36 batches on it now, I've never blown a fuse. It runs at 3500w for 90 minutes+ on most batches. A few batches it's ran long enough the automatic shutdown has occurred and I've had to fire it back up again by hand.

I'd say if it happened it might have something more to do with the power coming into the unit (how clean your grid power is), other potential draws on the same circuit, or something defective with the unit (if it blows fuses repeatedly).

 

[tmendick]

If the receptacle is 30A, they should have used 10-2 wire. More than enough. If you have room in your panel, replace the 30A 120V breaker with a 20A 240V breaker and change the wall receptacle to a 20A 240V (NEMA 6-20R). Make sure there is nothing else on the circuit!

I don't know if you consider this work to be "easy-ish"? :cross:

What would happen if I used a 2 pole 30a breaker?

Also is a 120v/240v breaker what I'm looking for? I can't seem to find one that is strictly 240.

 

[fbold1]

What would happen if I used a 2 pole 30a breaker?

Also is a 120v/240v breaker what I'm looking for? I can't seem to find one that is strictly 240.

Nothing wrong with a 30 amp breaker as long as you are using #10 wire.
A 120 v breaker is a single breaker and a 240 v breaker is a double breaker with the arms attached.

 

[AnOldUR]

Nothing wrong with a 30 amp breaker as long as you are using #10 wire.

Will it work? Sure, but if the receptacle is the 20 amp NEMA 6-20R that this induction hob uses, you should have a 20 amp breaker in the panel.

 

[jeffmeh]

Will it work? Sure, but if the receptacle is the 20 amp NEMA 6-20R that this induction hob uses, you should have a 20 amp breaker in the panel.

Isn't the induction unit internally fused? If so, I wouldn't be concerned about running it on a 30a circuit.

 

[AnOldUR]

oops

 

[fbold1]

Isn't the induction unit internally fused? If so, I wouldn't be concerned about running it on a 30a circuit.

All equipment must have its own protective device, you certainly can't rely on the breaker in the main panel to protect each appliance that is connected to that circuit, it is sized to protect the wire. Lets say that you try connecting two 120 v. 1500 watt toasters to a 20 amp circuit, it will exceed the rating of the wire and trip the breaker.

 

[jeffmeh]

All equipment must have its own protective device, you certainly can't rely on the breaker in the main panel to protect each appliance that is connected to that circuit, it is sized to protect the wire. Lets say that you try connecting two 120 v. 1500 watt toasters to a 20 amp circuit, it will exceed the rating of the wire and trip the breaker.

The question here was whether it was safe to run the 20a induction cooker on a 30a circuit. My response was basically, yes, assuming the induction cooker has its own fuse or breaker that will trip in an overcurrent situation above 20a, as the breaker will not protect it until it gets above 30a.