Will this cheap 3500 watt induction burner work?

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DevilsCups

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One more quick question....

Going back and forth on kettle selection. I'm definitely going 10 gallon. Would anyone recommend one over the other : the Bayou 10 gallon Tri-Ply or a Concord 40 gallon non Tri-Ply. Not sure if the Concord is induction capable or too flimsy.

Neither of the two I'm looking at have a valve, which isn't the biggest deal.
 

TorMag

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One more quick question....

Going back and forth on kettle selection. I'm definitely going 10 gallon. Would anyone recommend one over the other : the Bayou 10 gallon Tri-Ply or a Concord 40 gallon non Tri-Ply. Not sure if the Concord is induction capable or too flimsy.

Neither of the two I'm looking at have a valve, which isn't the biggest deal.

I bought the Bayou Tri-ply because it's known to work with induction burners. I also own a concord, my kettle before the induction burner. I have not tried the concord on my burner, but it fails miserably on the magnet test. I also wanted a kettle with a ball valve. Wanted to get a counter flow chiller. Also wanted to recirculate during the BIAB mash.
 

DevilsCups

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I bought the Bayou Tri-ply because it's known to work with induction burners. I also own a concord, my kettle before the induction burner. I have not tried the concord on my burner, but it fails miserably on the magnet test. I also wanted a kettle with a ball valve. Wanted to get a counter flow chiller. Also wanted to recirculate during the BIAB mash.
All things noted. Thank you.

The Bayou tri-ply without the valve is much cheaper than the one with the valve at the moment, so I'm thinking about just going with that one and adding a valve down the road.

Though I do have my concerns about drilling and installing the valve properly, I think this is a good starting point for me. I'm pretty confident that I'll be able to manually dump 5 gallons into my fermenter for the time being, especially since I'll be using an immersion chiller.
 

IslandLizard

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One more quick question....

Going back and forth on kettle selection. I'm definitely going 10 gallon. Would anyone recommend one over the other : the Bayou 10 gallon Tri-Ply or a Concord 40 gallon non Tri-Ply. Not sure if the Concord is induction capable or too flimsy.

Neither of the two I'm looking at have a valve, which isn't the biggest deal.
Here's a thread on Induction Equipment and results.

I have one kettle, a cheap lightweight Polarware with a flimsy single ply bottom, that's non-magnetic to a magnet, but still works great on the induction plate.

I'd go with a Tri-ply as it disperses the heat better and avoids possible local scorching. All the heat is generated in a 6" diameter disc-like area!

Both my MoreBeer Heavy Duty kettles are tri-ply bottomed, and I use them for step mashing when needed. 10 gallon is a good size for 5.5-6 gallon batches. My 8 (32 qts) gallon is bit skimpy.

Weldless bulkheads are easy to install if you want a drain valve or any other ports. Siphoning is a good alternative until you know better what you'll need, maybe a whirlpool port, etc.
 

DevilsCups

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You've sold me on the Bayou tri-ply. Thanks!

Really hoping this all comes together well!
 

DevilsCups

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It will and you will be very happy.
Awesome.

One quick, final question...since it's better to ask too many than too few...

No concerns with single-vessel BIAB batches with this unit as far as weight goes? Looking at 5 gallon batches.
 

TorMag

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Awesome.

One quick, final question...since it's better to ask too many than too few...

No concerns with single-vessel BIAB batches with this unit as far as weight goes? Looking at 5 gallon batches.
Zero problems with the weight. It is fairly strong
 

DevilsCups

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Great, thanks fellas! You guys are all a tremendous help.

Just gotta order the burner and then call my electrician buddy over to get wiring. Been keeping an eye on the WebstaurantStore site in hopes of another sale on the IC3500. Guess I'll just have to bite the bullet, as it's already a great price.

Weldless ball-valve setup is in the mail from BargainFittings. It's all coming together hopefully!
 

Atlmustang

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Are we talking about the advantco 3500W burner? Im really considering the jump. Ive tried doing the propane burner but I was not a fan at all of brewing outdoors. I had to fight insects and debris from getting into my wort. Just was not a fan. I have plenty of stuff to watch and monitor for brewing and I am not looking to fight bugs and nature.

I brew now on my gas stove at home. I have a 13 gallon SS kettle that is big enough for me to use both front and back burners which speeds up the boil. Also, the kettle is much larger than my 5 gallon batches so I never have to worry about a boil over.

But I am thinking itd be cheaper to run electricity. Plus it would be nice to brew on a lower surface for lautering my grain bag (I do BIAB).
 

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Are we talking about the advantco 3500W burner? Im really considering the jump. Ive tried doing the propane burner but I was not a fan at all of brewing outdoors. I had to fight insects and debris from getting into my wort. Just was not a fan. I have plenty of stuff to watch and monitor for brewing and I am not looking to fight bugs and nature.

I brew now on my gas stove at home. I have a 13 gallon SS kettle that is big enough for me to use both front and back burners which speeds up the boil. Also, the kettle is much larger than my 5 gallon batches so I never have to worry about a boil over.

But I am thinking itd be cheaper to run electricity. Plus it would be nice to brew on a lower surface for lautering my grain bag (I do BIAB).
Yes, it's all about the Avantco IC3500 from webstaurant.com.

I hear what you're saying about the insects, that was one of the reasons I brew indoors. The mosquitos are the most annoying here, and they own the place from June to November. Plus brewing when it's below 40 doesn't do it for me either. Indoors, I can brew anytime.

I have the IC3500 almost permanently placed on one of the kitchen countertops, and that works great for boiling 5-6 gallon batches and other cooking purposes.

When I do decoction mashing in my 15 gallon kettle I move the setup onto a sturdy 16" high wooden garden bench in the middle of my kitchen. I can see for BIAB the lower placed kettle helps a lot when mashing or lifting the bag. For the same reason, my cooler mash tun sits on a low 12" bench.

Whether it is cheaper than gas depends on your energy service. But it's certainly faster! I still use the flat top stove for other purposes, like making sugar syrup while mashing or the wort is boiling, or boiling down some extra runnings.

I store my heated sparge water in a spare kettle to free up my boil kettle to receive wort.
 
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TorMag

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Are we talking about the advantco 3500W burner? Im really considering the jump. Ive tried doing the propane burner but I was not a fan at all of brewing outdoors. I had to fight insects and debris from getting into my wort. Just was not a fan. I have plenty of stuff to watch and monitor for brewing and I am not looking to fight bugs and nature.

I brew now on my gas stove at home. I have a 13 gallon SS kettle that is big enough for me to use both front and back burners which speeds up the boil. Also, the kettle is much larger than my 5 gallon batches so I never have to worry about a boil over.

But I am thinking itd be cheaper to run electricity. Plus it would be nice to brew on a lower surface for lautering my grain bag (I do BIAB).

Yes. I bought it for the same reason. I was brewing outback and was constantly worried about stuff falling in my wort, leaves, pine needles and bird crap were my major concerns. It wasn't until I fought the Battle of Georgia Summer that I pulled the trigger and bought mine. I had decided to brew on a day I was having company over for dinner, big mistake. There ended up being a 3 hour break for dinner between mash out and boil. I started the boil in the dark and every insect in Georgia found out about it and came a calling. My kettle lid became my shield and my mash paddle my sword. I fought till exhaustion overcame me but still I boiled on. All sorts of insects were dive bombing my kettle. Three weeks later when I cracked open my fermentation vessel, I had my first infection.

I quickly ordered my induction burner and moved into my basement. I also do BIAB and installed a pulley in one of the ceiling beams above me kettle. Love that part.
 

DevilsCups

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So, everything is on order for me. Have the burner coming, as well as all the pieces needed to use it on my 40A range outlet.

I've been reading some concerns about the 15A internal fuse on the Avantco unit. Is it a legitimate concern, or should I be okay?
 

trussell

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So, everything is on order for me. Have the burner coming, as well as all the pieces needed to use it on my 40A range outlet.

I've been reading some concerns about the 15A internal fuse on the Avantco unit. Is it a legitimate concern, or should I be okay?
I've done a dozen brews no fuse problem. For much of the boil I have it dialed back from max anyway. I've only seen a couple posts where people had problems.
 

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I bought 2 units about 2yr ago.

One failed within only a dozen batches, error code 03.

At the beginning the error was not permanent, it would go away after a short pause.

Then the error came more and more often and now it just errors out as soon as I turn it on.

The other unit had no issue whatsoever, use it about 50 times.
 

IslandLizard

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I bought 2 units about 2yr ago.

One failed within only a dozen batches, error code 03.

At the beginning the error was not permanent, it would go away after a short pause.

Then the error came more and more often and now it just errors out as soon as I turn it on.

The other unit had no issue whatsoever, use it about 50 times.
Did you find out what the error code points to? Is the fan running? On mine, the fan about stopped after around 2 years of use, it was covered in dust and grease. I cleaned the fan and is running OK now, but it is one cheap piece of junk. Looking to find a replacement sometime, it's not a standard fan.
 

DevilsCups

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Good stuff!

Ordered mine on Friday, and it came yesterday (Saturday). Unreal shipping from Webstaurant Store! Now just waiting on my electric bits.
 

DevilsCups

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Yeah, after ordering mine last week I chatted with them to ask if they would refund me the $10 I missed out on. They couldn't but that's okay, I understand. The damn thing did come overnight though, so I was wildly impressed.

I should be up and running in about 2 weeks or so with this setup. Need to do the range plug work this weekend (maybe) to create a 20A outlet from my 40A receptacle.

This :



Feeding into this (30A A/C Disconnect) :



With these fuses (20A) :



Outputting to this (20A / 250v) :




This is what my electrician buddy suggested, and while I trust his advice do you guys see anything wrong here?
 

DevilsCups

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Electric converter for my range plug is all buttoned up! Forced my buddy to sign it as a gag haha.



If my ingredients come in the mail in the next few days, I'll likely be giving the setup a try this weekend. Pretty excited.
 

IslandLizard

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Electric converter for my range plug is all buttoned up! Forced my buddy to sign it as a gag haha.

If my ingredients come in the mail in the next few days, I'll likely be giving the setup a try this weekend. Pretty excited.
Looks great! Do you have a spare range socket or easy access to it to swap the plug?
 

DevilsCups

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Looks great! Do you have a spare range socket or easy access to it to swap the plug?
No spare socket. I'll be pulling the range on brewday and plugging this in, then reconnecting the range when finished. Slight inconvenience, but I figure it's worth it the once or twice a month that brewdays happen. No biggie!

Just to test everything out I put about a quarter gallon of water in my kettle and hit it at 2500w. It was simmering almost instantly. Crazy!
 

IslandLizard

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No spare socket. I'll be pulling the range on brewday and plugging this in, then reconnecting the range when finished. Slight inconvenience, but I figure it's worth it the once or twice a month that brewdays happen. No biggie!

Just to test everything out I put about a quarter gallon of water in my kettle and hit it at 2500w. It was simmering almost instantly. Crazy!
Yeah, pulling the range on brew day is what I figured. The price is right, considering the alternative.

I wired a socket in the kitchen just for the IC3500. It gets a lot of other use aside from brewing. Made 4 gallons of chicken stock yesterday in an 8 gallon pot. I like it for stews too. As long as you keep in mind to check and turn it back on every so many hours when it times out.

Hope your ingredients arrive soon so you can start brewing away.
 

DevilsCups

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Yeah, pulling the range on brew day is what I figured. The price is right, considering the alternative.

I wired a socket in the kitchen just for the IC3500. It gets a lot of other use aside from brewing. Made 4 gallons of chicken stock yesterday in an 8 gallon pot. I like it for stews too. As long as you keep in mind to check and turn it back on every so many hours when it times out.

Hope your ingredients arrive soon so you can start brewing away.
I would love to have a dedicated outlet for it. At the moment I rent, so this is the easiest, zero modification way I could have gone about it. The price is definitely right! I couldn't see any other way to brew 5 gallon batches in my apartment, so I'll take it.

Ingredients are en-route. 38 lbs of grain coming, 2 days shipping. Gotta love Adventures in Homebrewing! 14 or so lbs for an IPA and 19 or so for an IRS (4.5 gallon batch). I'll update in here with my thoughts on how everything worked. IPA first this weekend, hopefully.
 

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Electric converter for my range plug is all buttoned up! Forced my buddy to sign it as a gag haha.



If my ingredients come in the mail in the next few days, I'll likely be giving the setup a try this weekend. Pretty excited.
If you get a chance, you might want to show some inside pics of the pieces saying "this is how I did it"
 

DevilsCups

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If you get a chance, you might want to show some inside pics of the pieces saying "this is how I did it"
Will do! I have zero knowledge of anything electrical (my friend did all the work), but I can take pics and give some details.

Basically : My range plug is a 40A 220V outlet. Used the A/C Disconnect box with fuses and certain wire to step it down to 20A.

I'll get some pics up soon.
 
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I haven't read through the entire thread but I just wanted to add a tip for those wanting to try induction who have non-magnetic or aluminum brew pots; find a cheap, shallow pan that is induction capable and matches the diameter of your induction coil, drill out the rivets to remove the handle, and place it inside your pot flat on the bottom. The induction field will pass right through your brew pot and heat the pan effectively turning it into a heating element with 100% efficiency. A more professional approach would be to call around metal shops and get a disc cut from suitable magnetic stainless, the thicker the better. I don't know if the small area of trapped wort under the disk would scorch, but this could be remedied by drilling holes in the plate and elevating it slightly with ss washers soldered to the bottom, convective current would provide circulation.
 

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It took me forever, but I have read through this entire thread. Thanks everyone for the great info!

I'm ready to pull the trigger and order the Avantco IC3500. I'm talking to electricians now about getting an outlet wired up in my basement. I want to get something that will work with the IC3500, but will also be as upgradeable as possible if/when I decide to go to something like a BrewEasy or Colorado Brewing Systems Nano.

This is what the electrician has spec'ed out (including some extra outlets that I need for a pump, fan, etc..)

1) Install a 30 amp (future) dedicated circuit with a 20 amp breaker and outlet NEMA-6-20 outlet
2) Install a 20 amp circuit for (2) new outlets
3) Provide (1) twin 20 breaker for new circuits

Does this look correct?
 

IslandLizard

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I haven't read through the entire thread but I just wanted to add a tip for those wanting to try induction who have non-magnetic or aluminum brew pots; find a cheap, shallow pan that is induction capable and matches the diameter of your induction coil, drill out the rivets to remove the handle, and place it inside your pot flat on the bottom. The induction field will pass right through your brew pot and heat the pan effectively turning it into a heating element with 100% efficiency. A more professional approach would be to call around metal shops and get a disc cut from suitable magnetic stainless, the thicker the better. I don't know if the small area of trapped wort under the disk would scorch, but this could be remedied by drilling holes in the plate and elevating it slightly with ss washers soldered to the bottom, convective current would provide circulation.
The inductor can't be too high up. The induction field only reaches about 1/2 above the glass plate. It may not transfer all the energy at that height.

I would be worried about scorching between the bottom and the inductor though. Maybe someone has tested this.
 

brewman !

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It took me forever, but I have read through this entire thread. Thanks everyone for the great info!

I'm ready to pull the trigger and order the Avantco IC3500. I'm talking to electricians now about getting an outlet wired up in my basement. I want to get something that will work with the IC3500, but will also be as upgradeable as possible if/when I decide to go to something like a BrewEasy or Colorado Brewing Systems Nano.

This is what the electrician has spec'ed out (including some extra outlets that I need for a pump, fan, etc..)

1) Install a 30 amp (future) dedicated circuit with a 20 amp breaker and outlet NEMA-6-20 outlet
2) Install a 20 amp circuit for (2) new outlets
3) Provide (1) twin 20 breaker for new circuits

Does this look correct?
All you need is a 20A GFCI and a 20A 120/240VAC receptacle. It is a NEMA14-20R. Have him run 12/3 to it. Easy peazy.

You can run a 30A circuit. Not sure what you would need it for. The GFCI is about the same cost, but the wire is more. You'll need 10 gauge for 30A.

I outlined a number of ways to get 240VAC into a kitchen without pulling new wire in this thread. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=600713 If you have a stove receptacle, just wire up a converter box with a GFCI in it.

Edit: I'm recommending 12/3 and a 3 pole + ground plug (NEMA 14) in case you upgrade to a panel that requires 120VAC as well as 240VAC. If your electrician pulls 12/2 and you upgrade to a 120/240VAC panel, you'll have to provide the 120VAC via a 2nd 120VAC plug. If you pull 12/3, you've got everything you need: 120 and 240VAC.
 

brewman !

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Electric converter for my range plug is all buttoned up! Forced my buddy to sign it as a gag haha.



If my ingredients come in the mail in the next few days, I'll likely be giving the setup a try this weekend. Pretty excited.
The cord should go straight into the panel, not via the device box.

You have a GFCI inside the panel, right ?
 

brewman !

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I haven't read all of this thread, but I thought I would share something that may be of interest to those of you suffering scorching issues.

The temperature attained by a piece of metal heated by induction depends on two things, for a given magnetic field - the skin current depth and the resistance of the metal.

The skin current depth is the *lessor* of the actual material thickness and the skin depth of the magnetic field, due to frequency and material properties. Where this can come into play is if some of these tri clad pots have very thin skins due to having 3 layers.

Tin foil, for instance, will melt immediately if placed on an induction cooktop between a coil and an inductive pot. Why ? The induction pot will give the coil sufficient induction to operate the circuit. The resulting magnetic flux will induce a current in the aluminium. Because the aluminium is so thin, the current density will be extremely high and it will actually melt. Aluminum has a melting point of about 1400F !

So if your triclad kettles have very thin SS, you could be seeing very high current density in those layers.

The other thing to consider is that 3500 watts in an 8" coil has a pretty high heat density: 3500/ (8^2 pi/4) = 3500/50.26 in^2 = ~70 watts/in^2. The ULHD elements are less than 50 watts/in^2.
 

IslandLizard

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I haven't read all of this thread, but I thought I would share something that may be of interest to those of you suffering scorching issues.

The temperature attained by a piece of metal heated by induction depends on two things, for a given magnetic field - the skin current depth and the resistance of the metal.

The skin current depth is the *lessor* of the actual material thickness and the skin depth of the magnetic field, due to frequency and material properties. Where this can come into play is if some of these tri clad pots have very thin skins due to having 3 layers.

Tin foil, for instance, will melt immediately if placed on an induction cooktop between a coil and an inductive pot. Why ? The induction pot will give the coil sufficient induction to operate the circuit. The resulting magnetic flux will induce a current in the aluminium. Because the aluminium is so thin, the current density will be extremely high and it will actually melt. Aluminum has a melting point of about 1400F !

So if your triclad kettles have very thin SS, you could be seeing very high current density in those layers.

The other thing to consider is that 3500 watts in an 8" coil has a pretty high heat density: 3500/ (8^2 pi/4) = 3500/50.26 in^2 = ~70 watts/in^2. The ULHD elements are less than 50 watts/in^2.
Good points!

Actually, the heating area inside my heavy duty, tri-ply bottomed pots (8 and 15 gallon) is only 6"! And yes, I occasionally get some sticky gray residue on that area. No real scorching though. Now the thick bottom will diffuse some of the heat generated.
 

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