Will this cheap 3500 watt induction burner work?

[MerlinWerks]

Actually I was thinking about implementing a similar setup with one of the harbor freight carts. My plan was to lower the top shelf a bit by drilling new holes in the uprights, I wanted to do this mainly to make for easier lifting and stirring etc., but maybe this would help with the stability issue as well.

 

[schiersteinbrewing]

Turns out the service cart isn't the best idea. It wobbles a bit when you touch/stir the kettle since the whole setup is very top heavy. I doubt it would fall over, but still.

I have one of these work tables from Home Depot:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-X-Workhorse-Workbench-17185155/202021304

I think that'll be the new brew stand. Sturdy as hell (750lb weight limit) .

I ened up buying this, works pretty well, and folds up out of the way when not being used.

http://m.rakuten.com/product/242312803?listingid=279694104&adid=18172

Bought it at Sam's for $80

 

[jet70]

This question may not belong here but has anyone gotten their Induction burners to work with a PID controller (or BCS)?

 

[geoffm33]

I ened up buying this, works pretty well, and folds up out of the way when not being used.

http://m.rakuten.com/product/242312803?listingid=279694104&adid=18172

Bought it at Sam's for $80

That looks like a great stand. I'm bummed my wheeled service cart didn't quite work out. Whole idea was to be able to wheel it to/from my brew area to the slop sink for filling and cooling.

 

[sammy33]

Turns out the service cart isn't the best idea. It wobbles a bit when you touch/stir the kettle since the whole setup is very top heavy. I doubt it would fall over, but still.

I have one of these work tables from Home Depot:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-X-Workhorse-Workbench-17185155/202021304

I think that'll be the new brew stand. Sturdy as hell (750lb weight limit) .

Looks like it has some slots/holes in the top. If so, that will work nicely for air venting for the cooling fan on the bottom. I was going to suggest adding some vent holes to your other cart since it had side walls.

 

[sumbrewindude]

This question may not belong here but has anyone gotten their Induction burners to work with a PID controller (or BCS)?

Nope. Can't work due to the way that the plates work, any kind of interruption in the line power will reset the plate, leaving it in an OFF state.

If you want exact temp control for mashing, consider a RIMS.

:rockin:

 

[max384]

Boil test results.

IC3500
Bayou Classic 11 gallon
Not insulated
Cover on

8gallons of 64* water

100* at 16 minutes
160* at 45 minutes
212* at 70 minutes

Equipment pr0n

View attachment 188587

Thanks for posting this. Do you wrap your pot with any insulation?

Those numbers don't look too bad. Considering that I could start heating the wort as it was draining from my mash tun since it would be indoors, I think total brew day time would be faster than propane, even though my propane burner heats the water much more quickly.

What are your boiloff rates with this combo? I'm very seriously considering going this route, with both the induction burner and kettle.

EDIT: I missed where you said that you don't insulate it.

 

[geoffm33]

Thanks for posting this. Do you wrap your pot with any insulation?

Those numbers don't look too bad. Considering that I could start heating the wort as it was draining from my mash tun since it would be indoors, I think total brew day time would be faster than propane, even though my propane burner heats the water much more quickly.

What are your boiloff rates with this combo? I'm very seriously considering going this route, with both the induction burner and kettle.

EDIT: I missed where you said that you don't insulate it.

I boiled off 1.5 gallons over the hour.

 

[max384]

Thanks. I'm boiling about 2-2.5 gallons on my current very wide kettle. Efficiency would go down slightly with 1.5 gallons... But I'd be more average in my boil off rates this way!

I think I will probably go this route.

 

[mneff2014]

For anyone interested, I've created a blog documenting my (continuing) experiences moving indoors with induction brewing:
http://inductionhomebrewing.wordpress.com/

 

[geoffm33]

For anyone interested, I've created a blog documenting my (continuing) experiences moving indoors with induction brewing:

http://inductionhomebrewing.wordpress.com/

Awesome! Reading through now!

 

[geoffm33]

Virgin brew session on the new IC3500

It's a Newcastle clone from Brewing Classic Styles.

Here's a tour:



And here is the recipe:

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 7.36 gal
Post Boil Volume: 5.86 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal   
Bottling Volume: 5.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.050 SG
Estimated Color: 13.3 SRM
Estimated IBU: 26.1 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 81.9 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
8 lbs                 Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (3.0 SRM)           Grain         1        81.5 %        
11.0 oz               Special Roast (50.0 SRM)                 Grain         2        7.0 %         
7.0 oz                Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM)    Grain         3        4.5 %         
7.0 oz                Victory Malt (25.0 SRM)                  Grain         4        4.5 %         
4.0 oz                UK Pale Chocolate Malt (200.0 SRM)       Grain         5        2.5 %         
1.30 oz               Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] - Boil 60.0 Hop           6        24.2 IBUs     
0.50 Items            Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins)        Fining        7        -             
0.50 oz               Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] - Boil 5.0  Hop           8        1.9 IBUs      
1.0 pkg               Nottingham (Danstar #-) [23.66 ml]       Yeast         9        -

 

[brettwasbtd]

Nope. Can't work due to the way that the plates work, any kind of interruption in the line power will reset the plate, leaving it in an OFF state.

If you want exact temp control for mashing, consider a RIMS.

:rockin:

Yes until someone with solid electronics knowledge opens up the guts of the burner and figures it out you won't be able to control the burner via pid. You may be able to use these burners with a HERMS by setting the water temp a little higher than desired and using the pid to control the pump. Thermometer on outflow.

I saw one guy on YouTube who found an induction hob that was analog and he was able to control with a pid

 

[AnOldUR]

When you shut the unit of, the fan runs for some time. Haven't researched it, but logic would say that it has to cool to a set temperature before a complete shutdown. Any attempt to use an external control would have to take that into consideration.

 

[sumbrewindude]

I saw one guy on YouTube who found an induction hob that was analog and he was able to control with a pid

If it's the video I'm thinking of, that wasn't a HOB - it was a standard hotplate with the PID controlling it.

I haven't torn into one yet, but I'm fairly certain that it's a digital logic circuit that's controlling the switching on the HOB's. Could portions of that circuit be bypassed? Sure, but you'll likely be crawling into some chips and dealing with a multilevel circuit board for the sake of running the PID in thermostat mode.

For less effort and better control I could build a RIMS and have accurate step mashing and/or the possibility of immediate sparge water.

I thought about a HERMS style rig with this setup, and after doing some serious digging and looking into some of the negatives that HERMS systems have, really a RIMS setup would work best in this instance - IMO.

Of course opinions and milage may vary.

 

[geoffm33]

Installed my reflectix insulation jacket and doing another boil test. Just one layer of insulation for now.

 

[Hello]

Geoffm33, the $40 x-stand from Home Depot does wobble. I am using it with a miter saw right now and it wobbles. Just wanted to let you know. I love it, but it does wobble when adjust the bevel and miter.

 

[geoffm33]

Geoffm33, the $40 x-stand from Home Depot does wobble. I am using it with a miter saw right now and it wobbles. Just wanted to let you know. I love it, but it does wobble when adjust the bevel and miter.

I notice it too when I have my mitre box and hand saw on it. But mostly it's from the pressure I put on the corner where I hold it. When I saw I push/pull with the motion.

But with the burner, 15 pound kettle and 64 lbs of water it's pretty stable

At least infinitely more stable than the service cart!

 

[geoffm33]

Those of you with the reflectix insulation, do you leave it on during the boil? Any burning/melting? Thanks!

 

[geoffm33]

Boil test results.

IC3500
Bayou Classic 11 gallon
Not insulated
Cover on

8gallons of 64* water

100* at 16 minutes
160* at 45 minutes
212* at 70 minutes

Here are the results from my boil test with 1 layer of reflectix insulation. Unfortunately I was multi-tasking so don't have all the same data points as the first test.

8gallons at 58* (note: 6* cooler than first test)

94* at 16 minutes
160* at 46 minutes
212* at 72 minutes

So, better, but not MUCH better. I have since added a second layer of reflectix. Will test again.

At any rate, the reflectix jacket will help keep the mash temps better, while adding a few degrees more efficiency.

 

[Hello]

I notice it too when I have my mitre box and hand saw on it. But mostly it's from the pressure I put on the corner where I hold it. When I saw I push/pull with the motion.

But with the burner, 15 pound kettle and 64 lbs of water it's pretty stable

At least infinitely more stable than the service cart!

Oh that's good news. Think it's still $40 well spent!

 

[sammy33]

Those of you with the reflectix insulation, do you leave it on during the boil? Any burning/melting? Thanks!

Yes, I leave it on during the boil and no melting or burning.

 

[geoffm33]

Yes, I leave it on during the boil and no melting or burning.

Thanks! Trying to do a new test with my second layer of reflectix. But I left the insulation on overnight and when I went to test this morning, it was still 150*!

 

[geoffm33]

8.5 gallons = ~71 pounds of water.

153F - 70F = 83 F
71 pounds x 83F = 5876 BTU.
5876 BTU / 30 minutes = 11,750 BTU/Hr.
1 KwHr = 3412 BTU 11,750/3412 = 3,444 watts. Pretty darn good !

168 - 147 = 21F
71 pounds x 21F = 1491 BTU
1491 BTU/ 10 minutes = 8946 BTU/Hr.
8946 BTU/Hr/3412 = 2.6 Kw.

Looks like this combination works pretty well.

If I used this for my setup, I only get 2,200 watts on the 3500 watt setting.

I go 64° to boil on 8 gallons in 67 minutes.

This is with 2 layers of reflectix around the kettle and the lid. Plus a thick towel on top of the lid.

Any thoughts??

 

[sammy33]

geoff - Some thoughts based on experiences with my unit.

Did you just adjust the wattage? The default temp is 220F. The thermal sensing might be cycling the power with that setting but still getting you to a boil?

If you switch to temp mode, crank it up to 460F with the wattage set at 3500 and that might help. Perhaps even heat faster.

 

[AnOldUR]

The default temp is 220F. If you switch to temp mode, crank it up to 460F with the wattage set at 3500 and that might help. Perhaps even heat faster.

hmmm . . . been using mine for years and did not know this. Thought that 3500 watts was a constant power draw. No cycling.

Time to get out the amp meter.

 

[geoffm33]

Same here. I thought you could set it by wattage OR temperature. Not wattage at a certain temperature.

 

[sammy33]

I made a spreadsheet based on brewman's formula. Thank you brewman_!

geoff - I get 3,235 watts based on your data. Looks good to me!

64° to boil on 8 gallons in 67 minutes

Gallons       8.00
Start F      64.00
End  F      212.00
Diff in F   148.00
lbs H2o      66.80
BTU       9,886.40
Time         67.00
BTU/hr   11,039.81
kwh       3,412.00
Watts     3,235.58
Draw	  3,500.00
Efficiency   92.45%

I have had a couple of three of homebrews so double check my math.

 

[geoffm33]

Ahhhh! I miscalculated the BTU per hour.

So I'm pretty much squeezing as much out as I can.

 

[carlk47]

Hey gang, has anyone been successful recirculating with a pump during the mash with this burner? I'm debating picking up a chugger pump for use to recirculate not only during the mash but also while using my immersion chiller to speed up chilling and whirlpooling. I know it won't hold the temp completely precise due to the 10 degree temp steps of the burner, but as long as it doesn't lose too much heat, i'm good with that.

Anyone tested it out?