Will this cheap 3500 watt induction burner work?

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I'm a electric noob. Is 3c10 the same as 10AWG three wire? And if so, can you use a 40 amp breaker with 10AWG wire? I thought 10AWG was only rated for 30 amps.

Also, I didn't think there was a surge current associated with heating elements. I thought that was a motor thing.

#10 is good for 30A continuous at 60C. 3 wires will give you 2 hots and 1 neutral. 4 wires will add a dedicated ground.
Your continuous current usage should not exceed 30A so #10 is good.

A heating element will not have surge current. But you are not hooking up a heating element, you are hooking up an electromagnet that has more in common with a microwave oven than that of your stove top.
 
They make double breakers that give you two 120V circuits from one slot in your panel. I've installed a few of these to make room for my 240V breakers. It means having to buy new breakers, but way cheaper than a new panel.

We did a renovation a couple of years ago and the electrician installed more of them and the electrical inspector approved it, so it shouldn't be a problem.


How big is your service? The chance that you'll overload your main is very small.

I'm going to take a pic and show you in a bit. But I have some where I have two 120s already. Each "bay" is 1" and 120 from what I understood. In some cases, they have two together held by a bridge (what I call it) and that is a 240, dryer, stove etc. Then there are ways to move some of the 120s on each side together, creating room for one more 240 (120x2). Based on that, I understood there was no more room was all. I have electric drying, cooking, and I believe the water heater is on that. i could be wrong.
 
3 wires will give you 2 hots and 1 neutral.
Not on a 240VAC circuit !!!!! That only works when supplying 2 120VAC circuits.

The neutral provides the return path for both 120VAC circuits. That works because each of them is out of phase and their currents cancel. If both circuits are pulling full load at the same power factor, the current in the neutral is zero, thus 1 conductor can handle both the return currents.

4 wires will add a dedicated ground.
No.

Each 240VAC circuit is going to require a hot (red) and a hot (black). There is no neutral in a 240VAC circuit. The only place neutral is provided in a 240VAC circuit is when the appliance (dryer or oven are the only I've seen) also needs 120VAC, in which case a neutral is also supplied, thus resulting in a 4 prong plug (hot, hot, neutral and ground).

BTW, it isn't called a ground wire anymore. Its called a "bonding" wire. The ground wire only exists at the main breaker box. Everywhere else is "bonded" to the ground wire.

I'm not sure how your electrician is going to set up 2 240VAC plugs. I suspect he is going to run a separate 10/2 to each and have separate breakers for each. I doubt you could run 10/2 (8/2 ?) to the first box and then split off of that to the second box.

I'd like to know how you guys are getting cables pulled into the kitchen (?) for these plugs in a finished house. Hopefully your basements aren't finished because that makes things a lot easier.

If you want to save yourself money, and you know what you are doing, ask the trade if you can pull the wire for him. That is usually 50% or more of the work on these types of jobs.

The other hint is to call the Electrical Inspector and ask him how to do it. Actually, they won't tell you directly. Tell him how you intend to do it and he will tell you if it meets code or not. Then he will tell you how to do it properly.
 
Ordered mine yesterday, I wanted to get one before they start raising the price due to all the interest :)

Didn't realize they were only about four hours from me, so I was shocked to see it on my doorstep today. Still have to decide on a new BK since I don't think my Polarware will work with this, magnet doesn't stick anywhere, I'll give it a go just to be sure. Looking at either a Bayou Classic or a Concord. I know the BC's work, but does any one know about the Concords?
 
One more thing... induction heating works by generating magnetic flux under the pot and relying on the "magnetic resistance" of the pot to convert the flux to heat. When a magnet doesn't stick well to a pot, it doesn't have much magnetic resistance. When that happens, the pot isn't going to heat well, if at all. This means that although the induction unit is capable of providing 3500 watts of power in the form of flux, it doesn't mean the bottom of the pot will provide a load for that power in the form of resistance to the flux.

Bottom line, I would conduct some heating experiments on some of these pots to find out exactly how much heat is being generated, especially with materials that are not that magnetic.
 
Finally had a chance to brew with my new IC3500 and BayouClassic kettle (uninsulated). All I can say is WOW! Took about 30 min to heat 8.5gal to 153 deg from 70deg, took less than 10 min to rise from 147deg to 168deg, then about 20 min to go from 168 to a full boil.

8.5 gallons = ~71 pounds of water.

153F - 70F = 83 F
71 pounds x 83F = 5876 BTU.
5876 BTU / 30 minutes = 11,750 BTU/Hr.
1 KwHr = 3412 BTU 11,750/3412 = 3,444 watts. Pretty darn good !

168 - 147 = 21F
71 pounds x 21F = 1491 BTU
1491 BTU/ 10 minutes = 8946 BTU/Hr.
8946 BTU/Hr/3412 = 2.6 Kw.

Looks like this combination works pretty well.
 
Would an Auber sous vide controller be able to handle the temperature control duties? The heavy duty version can handle up to 12A at 240V:

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?m...id=183&zenid=8cd07e9486865de0a2a33c14b2f02c85

I don't think I'd need to ramp to 3500 watts while mashing, so I think it's possible to stay under the 12A rating, correct?

I have a separate 120V system with a PID setup that I use for 2.5 gallon batches. I'd love to do an occasional 5 gallon BIAB batch but don't want to build another PID box.
 
Would an Auber sous vide controller be able to handle the temperature control duties? The heavy duty version can handle up to 12A at 240V:

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?m...id=183&zenid=8cd07e9486865de0a2a33c14b2f02c85

I don't think I'd need to ramp to 3500 watts while mashing, so I think it's possible to stay under the 12A rating, correct?

I have a separate 120V system with a PID setup that I use for 2.5 gallon batches. I'd love to do an occasional 5 gallon BIAB batch but don't want to build another PID box.

I don't think it will work, once power is shut off to the cook top you have to press the on/off button and reselect the temperature. Unless you are good with electronics and don't mind opening the unit and re-engineering it.
 
I don't think it will work, once power is shut off to the cook top you have to press the on/off button and reselect the temperature. Unless you are good with electronics and don't mind opening the unit and re-engineering it.


You're right unfortunately. This also makes a PID controller impossible without rewiring the unit.

I wonder if setting to the lowest output and recirculating the mash would help with temp stability and efficiency?





Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
 
Salpino - I feel that a recirc of the mash would be a great addition for anyone doing BIAB (single vessel induction brewing) in terms of efficiency. Add an inline thermowell near the kettle return and a good quality digital thermometer and you could increase the accuracy of manual temp control. You wouldn't need to remove the lid to measure temps and you could apply heat as needed based on your thermometer. I am a hands on brewer so this is exactly the type of setup I am working toward.
 
Short of an infinitly adjustable plate, for exact temp control with induction I believe RIMS is the way to go. I did a lot of thinking and some looking into both systems, and while I believe HERMS is a better system overall, a RIMS tube could easily be adapted with an induction plate for exact temp control of the mash. Set the plate a few degrees south of the temp you want, then let a reduced wattage ULWD element control the temp.
 
I think this depends on your induction plate. I have a Mirage Cadet from Vollrath. The lowest temp setting is 100F with ten degree increments. I can set it at either 150F or 160F and maintain mash temps at 152-155 no problem.

I also noticed that insulation seems to throw the sensor off. I think the plate gets hotter with the insulation running all the way to the bottom of the kettle. I rolled my insulation/reflectix up about an inch exposing the base of the plate and the bottom of the kettle and this seems to make the internal temp sensor read more accurately.
 
Salpino - I feel that a recirc of the mash would be a great addition for anyone doing BIAB (single vessel induction brewing) in terms of efficiency. Add an inline thermowell near the kettle return and a good quality digital thermometer and you could increase the accuracy of manual temp control. You wouldn't need to remove the lid to measure temps and you could apply heat as needed based on your thermometer. I am a hands on brewer so this is exactly the type of setup I am working toward.

Using the IC3500, BC 10gal kettle with basket, blichmann weldless thermo, wilserbrewer bag, and chugger pump. Mashing with recirculation I'm getting 85% to kettle efficiency (double crushing the grains with a cereal killer mill).

I do have to add heat twice over 90 min mash to keep temps. I haven't insulated the kettle yet, which will help.
 
schierstein - I am still working on my efficiency. 85% is really good! :mug:

I am getting about 72% with a double crush, BIAB (Wilser bag here too) with no circulation. Do you recall your efficiency before adding the pump?
 
I haven't ran this system with out the pump yet. My next brew I am not going to recirculate to see the difference.

My first BIAB I hit 80% no recirculation. Setup: NG stove top, 10gal pot, paint strainer bag, single pass with corona mill.

Much better efficiency than my 10gal igloo cooler mash tun hit (68-70%), and easier to clean up.

Note: These are to the kettle efficiency numbers.
 
I've thought hard about a pump and recirculating system but my mash seems to hold temp for just about an hour before it begins to drop, even without insulating the kettle.

Lately I've been messing around with a two step mash at 145/162 and adjusting the times at each temp. The induction plate works really nice for step mashing BIAB, no scorching and nice even heat distribution.

I get pretty consistent 85% mash efficiency wth no sparge and if I sparge I can see low 90's.


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Electrician coming on Monday. Can't wait to try it out!

ImageUploadedByHome Brew1395538200.188574.jpg
 
Hey guys, I've been seriously considering induction brewing so that I can do my entire brew day inside (and I'm aware of the issue of so much steam boiled off inside). As it is I mash and sparge inside, but have to boil outside, since I use propane.

Sorry if this has already been asked and answered, but it's a big thread. I'm looking at the 3500W induction cooker listed in the OP. Does anyone know a cheap induction-ready kettle that is equal to or less than 10.25" diameter in the 10-15 gallon range?
 
max - That's a tall order. No pun intended. :D

Are you planning on 5G batches?

ETA: Bayou Classic 44QT seems to be the kettle of choice in the 10G range.
 
max - That's a tall order. No pun intended. :D

Are you planning on 5G batches?

ETA: Bayou Classic 44QT seems to be the kettle of choice in the 10G range.

I do five gallon batches. I currently use a 15 gallon aluminum pot. But, I'd be willing to drop down to 10ish gallon pot if it is a smaller diameter, since boiloff won't be so great.

I saw that this pot is non-magnetic, yet still works on an induction burner, after doing a Google search. Are many here using this pot successfully. I worry that it would be highly inefficient. It's also wider than 10.25", but if many here are successfully using it on this burner, than I'd be fine with it.
 
geoffm - I think that has a nice bling factor...and the red "brew cart" matches the Avantco! :rockin:

Turns out the service cart isn't the best idea. It wobbles a bit when you touch/stir the kettle since the whole setup is very top heavy. I doubt it would fall over, but still.

I have one of these work tables from Home Depot:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-X-Workhorse-Workbench-17185155/202021304

I think that'll be the new brew stand. Sturdy as hell (750lb weight limit) :ban:.
 
Turns out the service cart isn't the best idea. It wobbles a bit when you touch/stir the kettle since the whole setup is very top heavy. I doubt it would fall over, but still.

I have one of these work tables from Home Depot:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-X-Workhorse-Workbench-17185155/202021304

I think that'll be the new brew stand. Sturdy as hell (750lb weight limit) :ban:.
Glad you said something actually. Right now the intent is to use my kitchen table with a plastic table cloth just in case of spills but that workbench may be good for me to use when I brew outside.

The second estimate to install a plug came in $100 more than the other. I find that to be high. They're charging me labor for both an electrician and his helper. The labor alone exceeds the total cost for the first estimate.

Having spoken to that company though I was concerned the first company was setting up what is a workable solution but not ideal. I don't pay for "not ideal" so I questioned it. I was told this:
"Your panel is a 200amp panel and has the capacity to hold the load you are asking for one or two outlets would be fine. They are saying it can't because your panel has no room there are no empty spaces available but they make breakers for this purpose that can "tandem" breakers together."

I still have a feeling that the additional plugs are not super ideal but I just decided that one is enough and if I ever find myself getting kicked out to the garage (doubtful as there is no one to do the kicking) then I will have another plug installed. I will use 120v elements for a HLT if I decide not to do BIAB.

My induction cooker and pot are here, just need the plug. That should happen by end of day Monday. I am excited.


I will list boil times and such in this thread and the other thread. :) Thanks for all the help from anyone who put up with my newbie questions.
 
Actually I was thinking about implementing a similar setup with one of the harbor freight carts. My plan was to lower the top shelf a bit by drilling new holes in the uprights, I wanted to do this mainly to make for easier lifting and stirring etc., but maybe this would help with the stability issue as well.
 
Turns out the service cart isn't the best idea. It wobbles a bit when you touch/stir the kettle since the whole setup is very top heavy. I doubt it would fall over, but still.

I have one of these work tables from Home Depot:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-X-Workhorse-Workbench-17185155/202021304

I think that'll be the new brew stand. Sturdy as hell (750lb weight limit) :ban:.

I ened up buying this, works pretty well, and folds up out of the way when not being used.

http://m.rakuten.com/product/242312803?listingid=279694104&adid=18172

Bought it at Sam's for $80
 
This question may not belong here but has anyone gotten their Induction burners to work with a PID controller (or BCS)?
 
Turns out the service cart isn't the best idea. It wobbles a bit when you touch/stir the kettle since the whole setup is very top heavy. I doubt it would fall over, but still.

I have one of these work tables from Home Depot:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-X-Workhorse-Workbench-17185155/202021304

I think that'll be the new brew stand. Sturdy as hell (750lb weight limit) :ban:.

Looks like it has some slots/holes in the top. If so, that will work nicely for air venting for the cooling fan on the bottom. I was going to suggest adding some vent holes to your other cart since it had side walls.
 
This question may not belong here but has anyone gotten their Induction burners to work with a PID controller (or BCS)?

Nope. Can't work due to the way that the plates work, any kind of interruption in the line power will reset the plate, leaving it in an OFF state.

If you want exact temp control for mashing, consider a RIMS.

:rockin:
 
Boil test results.

IC3500
Bayou Classic 11 gallon
Not insulated
Cover on

8gallons of 64* water

100* at 16 minutes
160* at 45 minutes
212* at 70 minutes

Equipment pr0n

View attachment 188587

Thanks for posting this. Do you wrap your pot with any insulation?

Those numbers don't look too bad. Considering that I could start heating the wort as it was draining from my mash tun since it would be indoors, I think total brew day time would be faster than propane, even though my propane burner heats the water much more quickly.

What are your boiloff rates with this combo? I'm very seriously considering going this route, with both the induction burner and kettle.

EDIT: I missed where you said that you don't insulate it.
 
Thanks for posting this. Do you wrap your pot with any insulation?

Those numbers don't look too bad. Considering that I could start heating the wort as it was draining from my mash tun since it would be indoors, I think total brew day time would be faster than propane, even though my propane burner heats the water much more quickly.

What are your boiloff rates with this combo? I'm very seriously considering going this route, with both the induction burner and kettle.

EDIT: I missed where you said that you don't insulate it.


I boiled off 1.5 gallons over the hour.
 
Thanks. I'm boiling about 2-2.5 gallons on my current very wide kettle. Efficiency would go down slightly with 1.5 gallons... But I'd be more average in my boil off rates this way!

I think I will probably go this route.
 

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