Why doesn't everyone BIAB?

[Logzor]

I'm beginning to look into AG now that I have two partial mashes under my belt. I have looked at the wiki for the normal 3 vessel AG process, then the BIAB AG process.

It seems to me that the BIAB process is much more simple, why would anyone choose to do it the other way?

Is it recommended for new brewers to start with the BIAB method for AG?

 

[lamarguy]

BIAB is certainly easier (<= 5 gal batches) but significantly less efficient when brewing higher gravity beers and doesn't scale well (>= 10 gal batches).

Yes, I recommend BIAB for new brewers who don't wish to invest in a full setup.

 

[blueballsbrewer]

I do a 2 vessel (cooler MLT) and a hybrid SS HLT/Boil kettle 15 gallons. What's not simple about that?

 

[JesseRC]

yeah, I've seen the light too. I do 11g batches, I think my next upgrade will be to a 20g pot. Eventually move to electric. I like the idea of doing everything in one pot. Plus right now I do everything on the patio, but moving to the garage with a pulley system would be sweet.

 

[Logzor]

BIAB is certainly easier but significantly less efficient when brewing higher gravity beers.

Yes, I recommend BIAB for new brewers who don't wish to invest in a full setup.

Thanks for that information, make sense. I'll have to look more into the BIAB AG for a future batch.

I do a 2 vessel (cooler MLT) and a hybrid SS HLT/Boil kettle 15 gallons. What's not simple about that?

Answering my question with another question attempting to patronize me just isn't helpful.

yeah, I've seen the light too. I do 11g batches, I think my next upgrade will be to a 20g pot. Eventually move to electric. I like the idea of doing everything in one pot. Plus right now I do everything on the patio, but moving to the garage with a pulley system would be sweet.

Sounds like an awesome upgrade. What kind of equipment do you need to boil an 11g batch, as far as the BTU's needed? I assume you're using a propane burner. Right now I'm on the kitchen stove, so doing an AG batch would most definitely require an large propane burner of some sort. Anything beyond 4g is really difficult for me to boil.

 

[JesseRC]

I already have a KAB6 burner (210,000 + BTUs). I think it will be fine. I already boil 13-14g. That wont change, but I need the larger 20g pot to be able to do large grain bill mash.

 

[happypanties]

After three extract batches, I switched to BIAB for AG brewing. I did so because the only extra equipment I needed was a bigger stockpot (upgraded from 5 gallon to 10 gallon pot). Plus I could continue to brew on my stovetop...(however it does take a while to boil 5+ gallons).

The one drawback is efficiency with BIAB will be less. Of the two BIAB batches I brewed my efficiency were 60% and 70% (could also be due to be being new). My first batch may be off because I had no way to accurately measure the amount of wort I had, which I corrected in second batch. Regardless, even 70% seems pretty low compared to others posting on this board with full setups.

The first AG brew I made has been bottle conditioning for about 2 weeks, and after trying one the other day I can say it's far better than any extract brew I have made. I think BIAB is a great, inexpensive way to transition from extract to AG.

 

[terrapinj]

lifting heavy bags gets tiresome after a few high gravity batches

it's certainly cheaper but I wouldn't say it's easier

 

[happypanties]

That is true...I forgot I also bought a heavy duty strainer for about $12 to assist with that. It fits right on top of my pot and I let the grain bag sit in there and drain after mashing.

 

[bottlebomber]

I don't even think its cheaper in the long run. Cheaper than a Brutus clone maybe but don't act like those heavy duty nylon bags are inexpensive. I picked on up to try BIAB for the first time, bag was $15. Hated BIAB. It's way messy too. I'm sure there are some brewers that have it dialed in pretty well, but to me it spelled nothing but a big pain in the ass.

 

[Veedo]

lifting heavy bags gets tiresome after a few high gravity batches

it's certainly cheaper but I wouldn't say it's easier

Ratchet strap hooked to a rafter, etc takes care of the heavy lifting. I'm sure the average cat can figure something out with a little ingenuity. I often wondered why more people don't biab, i would love to compare identical brews brewed with both methods side by side.

 

[Logzor]

Well it sounds like there is some downsides to BIAB. Given there is little extra investment, I'll give it a try and see if it's right for me.

When you said you don't think it's cheaper in the long run, compared to what?

 

[cowgo]

Fine milling, mashing out at 170 and squeezing the snot out of the bag with insulated gloves has resulted in high 70's for my efficiency, same or higher than I got with the 3V batch sparge system. It's so easy to hit very good efficiency numbers. Efficiency isn't a draw back to BIAB, except perhaps the very high gravity beers. The highest gravity beers that I care to make would only be at 1060, so I'm fine.

Combine this with no chill and the brew day got a lot simpler. I wanted to spend my resources and efforts on those areas that really make a beer go from good to great, so now I concentrate much more on sanitation, proper yeast pitch rate w/aeration and temp control.

 

[Logzor]

Ratchet strap hooked to a rafter, etc takes care of the heavy lifting. I'm sure the average cat can figure something out with a little ingenuity. I often wondered why more people don't biab, i would love to compare identical brews brewed with both methods side by side.

Sounds like an awesome setup, do you have pictures?

 

[smakudwn]

Ratchet strap hooked to a rafter, etc takes care of the heavy lifting. I'm sure the average cat can figure something out with a little ingenuity. I often wondered why more people don't biab, i would love to compare identical brews brewed with both methods side by side.

To me that is not easier than using my pump to move liquid from vessel to vessel. I don't have to "squeeze" anything". I don't lift anything heavier than the grain bill. I'm sure the method makes great beer, I guess I just don't see how its "easier".

 

[djt17]

I have done about a dozen BIAB & a dozen using my Coleman Extreme w/ stainless steel braid. I have gone back & forth a couple times for various reasons. I am now retiring my bag for good. It really isn't any easier or simpler than a standard mash tun. Plus; no matter how hard I try, I usually end up dripping the bag over something that shouldn't be dripped upon!

 

[bottlebomber]

Well it sounds like there is some downsides to BIAB. Given there is little extra investment, I'll give it a try and see if it's right for me.

When you said you don't think it's cheaper in the long run, compared to what?

Compared to buying a Rubbermaid cooler mash tun that will last for hundreds of brews. The whole build will run you maybe $70, and then the same 10 gallon kettle you'd need for BIAB can double as your hot liquor tank

 

[wailingguitar]

My current setup I used an old cooler + another (maybe) $20 worth of stuff to make my cooler MLT. First brew through it I got 80% efficiency and it has been consistent. It's incredibly easy, doesn't make a mess and it is easy to scale my commercial recipes to 5 gallon size. It works, it's easy, I have a consistent product, every action correlates to commercial processes I have used. Why mess around with it if it does what I need it to do?

 

[Seven]

I'm beginning to look into AG now that I have two partial mashes under my belt. I have looked at the wiki for the normal 3 vessel AG process, then the BIAB AG process.

It seems to me that the BIAB process is much more simple, why would anyone choose to do it the other way?

Is it recommended for new brewers to start with the BIAB method for AG?

Each method has pros and cons. I definitely would not say that one method is better or cheaper than the other. Both methods can get as expensive or as complicated as anyone wants to make it. It just depends on the needs, capabilities, resources, and preferences of each brewer involved.

My first BIAB was messy too... but I got much better and much more efficient at it with each batch that I brewed. It's a shame to hear that several people tried it once and gave up. Using a pulley and a simple plastic bin to catch the drainage works wonders for keeping the mess down. Now I rarely spill a single drop when I brew.

I guess if I were to brew barleywines on the regular then BIAB may not be the best method for me. I do regularly brew OG 1.080+ BIAB batches without any problems whatsoever.

 

[tknice]

I don't know of any downsides to biab. 10 gal batches are easy if you have a 15 or 20 gal pot. I recently brewed a 36 lb dogfish 90 clone and if you grab a BBQ grate (mine has a tile work trough attached to it), you won't spill a drop. I'm all for the simplest brew day possible and multiple vessels and lines with pumps is not it. I really hesitate here because I love all brewers whatever their process, but you are not going to get any simpler than direct fire mashing and boiling in the same vessel, cooling, then racking right to the carboys.

TK

 

[wilserbrewer]

I have almost gone exclusive to BIAB...I sitll use a cooler tun occasionally.

 

[tknice]

I don't know of any downsides to biab. 10 gal batches are easy if you have a 15 or 20 gal pot. I recently brewed a 36 lb dogfish 90 clone and if you grab a BBQ grate (mine has a tile work trough attached to it), you won't spill a drop. I'm all for the simplest brew day possible and multiple vessels and lines with pumps is not it. I really hesitate here because I love all brewers whatever their process, but you are not going to get any simpler than direct fire mashing and boiling in the same vessel, cooling, then racking right to the carboys.

TK

Plus, no more stuck sparges!

 

[william_shakes_beer]

I already have a KAB6 burner (210,000 + BTUs). I think it will be fine. I already boil 13-14g. That wont change, but I need the larger 20g pot to be able to do large grain bill mash.

I just picked up that burner. How do you like it? Does it rip through propane? How many batches can you get out of a full tank? I am anxious to see spring so I can get outside and start AG.

 

[TheMan]

I don't think the efficiency is any different between AG and BIAB, I've heard people on here say this many times. They get equivalent results either way.

I do AG because I like it. Never tried BIAB so I cannot say if I'd like it or not. It doesn't sound easier or harder, just different.

 

[terrapinj]

i was getting 70% BIAB and now get 80% with my 10gal round cooler with braid

same LHBS and crush

everyone's systems and process vary though - there is no single answer for every homebrewer

 

[zacster]

I did BIAB as my first and so far only all-grain brew, and it was easy. I didn't have a pulley or wench or anything else. I just lifted the bag out and into my old small brew pot. I didn't spill anything or make any kind of mess. I would say however that the 5 gallon batch would be the limit in terms of lift weight where I'd still be able to control what I'm doing. And there's also the bag strength factor, if the weight is too great the bag could break.

I got decent efficiency by rinsing the bag with some wort from the pot. I can't compare it to a 3 vessel process as I've never tried, but I never tried because it always sounded so complicated, and the equipment cost. I also at some point put the bag in a large colander and used a pot lid to squeeze the last out.

 

[Rev2010]

When I went from AG to extract I considered BIAB but my stove can't handle full boils with my Blichmann 10G pot so I first had moved my brewing outside and onto a propane burner.

I went with the traditional route for a number of reasons, and I don't really use an HLT but rather a second pot for heating of sparge water. I do all my mashing indoors and it's fine with my cooler as it traps in any odors - the mother-in-law always complains incessantly about any stove top grain cooking smell. Anyhow, onto the reasoning:

1. I didn't want to have to lift out a heavy bag of grains and suspend it while it drains

2. I HATE cleaning out grain bags, especially bigger ones!! It's a pure PITA in my opinion

3. I worried, and I still think rightfully so, that the Blichmann burner would torch the bag unless I could find a way to suspend all that weight

4. I've read several BIAB brewers claim lower efficiency

5. If I used a pot for mashing indoors the smell would permeate more throughout the house and I'd have to hear the complaints. Doing it outside in my kettle I knew would be much harder to maintain mash temps in this weather, I would need to apply heat every now and then

6. The extra cost wasn't a matter for me at all and I personally find it more convenient in several ways


As for the stuck sparges and all that, I don't have any. I had a stuck sparge when I first went AG because I'd gotten a false bottom for my cooler. I had to basically move the grains over to a grain bag and it turned more into a BIAB. But, I found out right after the brew the false bottom was warped. I returned it for a refund and got a bazooka screen for $17 and it's been awesome with no stuck sparges since. I very rarely use rice hulls too, never do with my wheat beers, but I have used rice hulls on a few occasions to play it safe. I mill my own grain and I've been getting a consistent 79% efficiency since getting my own mill.

Do whatever makes you happiest, it's not really a matter of this vs. that in terms of what's better. It really all comes down to a "configuration" that works best for you. Some people do it on their stove top and BIAB is most convenient. Some do it for the cost savings. Others have reasons for using a more traditional setup - and trust me... most of us aren't doing it for "traditional" reasons. It just works best for me and the way I brew.


Rev.

 

[gunner65]

BIAB for me I average about 76% lowest has been 72% and highest 84% when I used the cooler tun I got an average of 75%. This has been on grain bills as high as 18lbs. YMMV

 

[wailingguitar]

I have never (knock on wood) had a stuck sparge on a home system... Of the various commercial systems I have brewed on, there was only one that was prone to sticking. It was originally a 15bbl system and was later expanded upwards to 30bbl capacity, it is assumed that the odd geometry was part of the equation. Even at that, it rarely stuck... of course when it did, it did so grandly! There were two occasions when coworkers managed to stick it to the point that it took 24hrs+ to run off the full batch LOL.

Anyway, my point is that stuck runoff should be pretty rare, and I am curious what is happening when those of you that mentioned it have one?

 

[Palefire]

eBIAB for 6 batches now and I'm never going back. So damn easy. Use a simple ratchet hung from a ladder to hoist the bag. First time I spilled a bunch, but now there's no spillage whatsoever. I have a 10 gallon pot, so I can do something like 18 lbs of grain. 68% eff with the standard lhbs crush.

If I ever do a really big beer, I'll probably break out my cooler mash tun. But until then, it's just less work overall, fewer things to worry about, fewer steps, and less stuff to clean. Oh, and smaller footprint too. I'm pretty busy so my time is valuable, and Biab gives me more downtime in the process and fewer things to deal with at the end.

Not knocking anyone else's proccess - hey, if it works for you then it's all good! But I love it.

 

[duckmanco]

I liked BIAB a lot when I made session beers, as my vessel was a 10 gallon pot. But I've really come to like batch sparging in my cheaply converted cooler because I'M more consistent that way, not that each process is any better than the other, it's just that batch sparging is so much easier for me to make consistently great beer with, therefore it's my main AG method. But man, cleaning just the kettle is a serious upside.

 

[JesseRC]

I just picked up that burner. How do you like it? Does it rip through propane? How many batches can you get out of a full tank? I am anxious to see spring so I can get outside and start AG.

I get about 2.5 batches of 11g each. Sure it rips through propane, but its badass. YOu can run it reall low or roaring like a jet. Really heavy duty and heavy. YOu'll like it. Only thing I dont like is how low to the ground it is, but I guess since its meant to handle large pots , lower is better.

My 15g pot centered on the burner and the base is still 4inches wider

 

[RM-MN]

Thanks for that information, make sense. I'll have to look more into the BIAB AG for a future batch.



Answering my question with another question attempting to patronize me just isn't helpful.



Sounds like an awesome upgrade. What kind of equipment do you need to boil an 11g batch, as far as the BTU's needed? I assume you're using a propane burner. Right now I'm on the kitchen stove, so doing an AG batch would most definitely require an large propane burner of some sort. Anything beyond 4g is really difficult for me to boil.

Why? There isn't any rule that you can't do a 3 gallon all grain batch right on your kitchen stove. I've done it a few times and it works really well. Try it.:rockin:

 

[msa8967]

For people who do smaller stove top BIAB batches, will squeezing the grain bag extract any tanins or undesirable tastes in the beer?

 

[Fastmetal]

I do full boil BIAB batches on my stove all the time. I average 75% efficiency. I am limited to about 14lbs of grain right now but that will all change soon. I just got a keggle and a new propane burner. I have never noticed any tannins from squeezing the bag but I don't squeeze the crap out of it. I just put the bag over the pot on an over sized strainer. But it's all about what works for you. There is no one answer in brewing. I have a buddy who only brews extract batches and makes some damn fine beers. YMMV.

 

[H-ost]

I did a 5 gallon BIAB once because I didn't want to and didn't have time to bring out my full setup for 10gallons. It was about as easy as doing an extract batch would have been. I can see myself doing BIAB + partial mash in the future if I want to make only 5 gallons but seeing as I do 10 gallon batches and I'm brewing outside on those days it is just so much easier for me to hold a consistent mash temp in my cooler.

 

[BBL_Brewer]

They don't make bags big enough.

 

[Euphist]

I do full boil 5g BIAB on my electric stove (does take 2 burners). Efficiency on my last batch was 82%. This is with a $30 Corona mill and a bag that cost less than $4 to make.

As far as "lifting heavy bags", if I can't lift that grain bag, I don't really need another beer! I squeeze every drop out of those grains and have never had an issue with tannins. A couple of free buckets from the bakery makes it painless as well!

The biggest attraction for BIAB right now is the minimal footprint. I live in an apartment, and simply do not have the for all the extra equipment.

 

[samc]

BIAB works just as well for me as my 3 keggle set up. If you have a large enough bag & kettle you can do just as well with either method.

 

[tknice]

When I went from AG to extract I considered BIAB but my stove can't handle full boils with my Blichmann 10G pot so I first had moved my brewing outside and onto a propane burner.

I went with the traditional route for a number of reasons, and I don't really use an HLT but rather a second pot for heating of sparge water. I do all my mashing indoors and it's fine with my cooler as it traps in any odors - the mother-in-law always complains incessantly about any stove top grain cooking smell. Anyhow, onto the reasoning:

Heya Rev.. Everyone has their opinion, and I respect yours, but people are reading this and deciding whether to try biab.

1. I didn't want to have to lift out a heavy bag of grains and suspend it while it drains

You don't need to suspend anything. Get a cheap grate from Walmart or home depot that is a few inches wider than your pot. I don't need help putting the grate in place for all but the largest of grain bills. Here's a pic of my grate with a tile work basin attached:

2. I HATE cleaning out grain bags, especially bigger ones!! It's a pure PITA in my opinion

Take a kitchen trash bag and spread it out on the ground. Set the biab in it and reach in, grab the bottom of the bag and up end the grain into the bag. Put the brew bag into a bucket of water until your done. Let it dry and shake it out the next day. How hard is that?

3. I worried, and I still think rightfully so, that the Blichmann burner would torch the bag unless I could find a way to suspend all that weight

Again, no need to suspend the bag. Most polyester bags won't burn and if you are worried (like me), get a cheap stainless rack for the bottom. I use the canning rack from my pressure cooker.

4. I've read several BIAB brewers claim lower efficiency

I haven't seen this.

5. If I used a pot for mashing indoors the smell would permeate more throughout the house and I'd have to hear the complaints. Doing it outside in my kettle I knew would be much harder to maintain mash temps in this weather, I would need to apply heat every now and then

I mashed outdoors in my 15 gal blichmann pot last weekend and it was 19 degrees. I zip a winter coat around it (you can use a sleeping bag or whatever) and I think it dropped two degrees in 75 mins.

6. The extra cost wasn't a matter for me at all and I personally find it more convenient in several ways

I didn't do biab for cheap, I do it for ease and cleanup time. I don't feel like my setup saved me much money lol.

As for the stuck sparges and all that, I don't have any. I had a stuck sparge when I first went AG because I'd gotten a false bottom for my cooler. I had to basically move the grains over to a grain bag and it turned more into a BIAB. But, I found out right after the brew the false bottom was warped. I returned it for a refund and got a bazooka screen for $17 and it's been awesome with no stuck sparges since. I very rarely use rice hulls too, never do with my wheat beers, but I have used rice hulls on a few occasions to play it safe. I mill my own grain and I've been getting a consistent 79% efficiency since getting my own mill.

Do whatever makes you happiest, it's not really a matter of this vs. that in terms of what's better. It really all comes down to a "configuration" that works best for you. Some people do it on their stove top and BIAB is most convenient. Some do it for the cost savings. Others have reasons for using a more traditional setup - and trust me... most of us aren't doing it for "traditional" reasons. It just works best for me and the way I brew.

Rev.

Totally agree with everything except the stovetop part. Many of us do 10 gallons outside on a burner, not on the stovetop. I just want people to understand that biab does not have to mean 5 gallons on the stovetop.