BIAB Lemon Lime Hefeweizen (First Time Need Help)

[Kornssj]

Ladies and Gents,

Hope you are all having a fine new year. Although its still early I have a good feeling about this year! Although yesterday I did run out of my homebrew (Pale Ale using DME). This brings me to my next batch and wanting to make a Hefeweizen for a while now since its among my favorite style of beer. See below for the Recipe I'm following from BeerSmith and also the recipe file if you happen to have the program.

This is my first time attempting to make a Hefe and my second time attempting a BIAB (after like 7 years). I do have a bunch of questions about this recipe and also the process. Ive organized them as best as I can below. REALLY appreciate your help! I'm looking to make this beer a favorite among family and friends.

1. I'm looking to make a 5 GAL batch, can I just take everything here and split in half? I tried running through on BeerSmith and everything seems within range except for the IBU is at 9.1. I don't think the program takes the Lime Zest into account, so I'm expecting the IBU to be kicked up a bit when I add that in along with the Simply Limeade.

2. Since I'm a bit new to BIAB could someone verify the following process:
a. Start with full boil volume, I think the program stated to start with 8.3GAL of water or something like that. Program is pretty good at figuring out grain absorption right?
b. Does not look like I have any Steep Grains, but the recipe calls for Vienna Malt which is typically a specialty steep grain. Should I ignore my past experience and Mash the 3 Malts into my kettle for the period it calls for?
c. I think it said 168° for 135mins. OR do i also need to cut down the Mash time to 68min? Sorry I'm kind of confused about this step.
d. After Mash, pull the bag of grains out while draining the liquid. (Is this called Mash out? or does that mean the max time you should be Mashing? -- What does "No Mast Out" mean within the reciepe)
e. Then boil my wort for the 60min while adding the hops and lime zest the recipe is calling for? -- I believe the steps within the program are calling for longer than 60min boil, Do i need to reduce that in half as well?
f. I should be good after this process, just cool down wort, transfer to primary, aerate and pitch.

3. When adding the "Simply Limeade" do I add into primary 3 days after fermentation has started?

4. I'm adding Lime Zest but only going to be using half since I have heard it can overpower if you use too much. I should be able to taste test at end of the boil and add more if needed right?

Really appreicte your help. Hoping to brew up some heaven in my next batch!

 

[RM-MN]

1. Yes, the recipe is perfectly scalable.
2. a. How much water depends on the grain absorption and the amount you boil off. I bring the wort to a boil and then back off the heat to just a simmer. There is no need to boil the wort hard.
2. b. All the grains go into the mash.
2. c. The mash should be between 148 and 158. You choose the strike temp so that the water plus the grains will bring the mash within that window. I often use 160-163 for the strike temp. The length of the mash depends on how fast the starches convert which is highly dependent on how well the grain is milled. I usually leave the grains in the mash for 30 or 40 minutes but my grains are milled very fine. You aren't likely to go wrong with a 60 minute mash.
2.d. You won't do a mash out. At the end of the mash you simply pull the bag out to drain. If wanted or needed, this is where you do a sparge step to capture more of the sugars. It isn't necessary.
2.e. 60 minutes of boil will get all the bittering out of the bittering hops. Any more than that is simply to reduce the volume of the wort in case you added too much water.
3. Yes, you want the yeast to eat the sugars without losing too much of the aroma. It could be added later than that if you leave the beer in the fermenter longer.
4. Yes, a sample will give you an idea of how strong the flavor will be. Some of the aromatic oils will be lost during the ferment so be prepared to add more when you add the limeade.

 

[Kornssj]

1. Yes, the recipe is perfectly scalable.
2. a. How much water depends on the grain absorption and the amount you boil off. I bring the wort to a boil and then back off the heat to just a simmer. There is no need to boil the wort hard.
2. b. All the grains go into the mash.
2. c. The mash should be between 148 and 158. You choose the strike temp so that the water plus the grains will bring the mash within that window. I often use 160-163 for the strike temp. The length of the mash depends on how fast the starches convert which is highly dependent on how well the grain is milled. I usually leave the grains in the mash for 30 or 40 minutes but my grains are milled very fine. You aren't likely to go wrong with a 60 minute mash.
2.d. You won't do a mash out. At the end of the mash you simply pull the bag out to drain. If wanted or needed, this is where you do a sparge step to capture more of the sugars. It isn't necessary.
2.e. 60 minutes of boil will get all the bittering out of the bittering hops. Any more than that is simply to reduce the volume of the wort in case you added too much water.
3. Yes, you want the yeast to eat the sugars without losing too much of the aroma. It could be added later than that if you leave the beer in the fermenter longer.
4. Yes, a sample will give you an idea of how strong the flavor will be. Some of the aromatic oils will be lost during the ferment so be prepared to add more when you add the limeade.

Sweet! Thanks for your help!! I'm going to give this a go in about a week when my materials arrive. Will post my progress so others can reference.

 

[Kornssj]

@RM-MN -- Wouldn't happen to have any recommendations on Water Profile? I'm just going to be using Distilled and I don't plan to add anything. I'm sure the beer will turn out fine but if you happen to have something for Hefeweizen let me know.

 

[RM-MN]

Your mash water will need some minerals that distilled won't have. However, I am not the person to ask as I am blessed with tasty tap water and just use that. There is a thread just on adjusting the minerals in your brew water. You should glance at it to start with.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/a-brewing-water-chemistry-primer.198460/

 

[Bobby_M]

My instinct is that Lemon and Lime flavors would clash with the banana/clove flavor of hefeweizen yeast and would go with something more neutral.

Hefeweizen typically tops out at 15 IBUs and that's without the acidity of lemon juice. At 21 IBU and the additional acidity, I think it will be somewhat harsh, bitter and acidic. I would target 10 IBU.

b. Does not look like I have any Steep Grains, but the recipe calls for Vienna Malt which is typically a specialty steep grain. Should I ignore my past experience and Mash the 3 Malts into my kettle for the period it calls for?

None of the malts in that list are typical steep grains. They all need to be mashed.

 

[Kornssj]

Thanks for your help everyone! Brew day is coming this Sunday and here is what I have so far for the build and water profile.

I was able to get the IBU down to about 16.1, which I hope will help when I add the salt additions at end of boil along with Simply Limeade mix during end of fermentation.

Main thing I wanted to verify is my water profile and additions. First time messing around with the water so I'm kind of excited to do something that will have a positive impact on my beer.

Oh I should mention that I am preparing to pressure ferment with my new All Rounder. Is that a bad idea with this style of beer? Just want to make sure i don't do anything stupid.

 

[Bobby_M]

Pressure fermenting will make the hefeweizen yeast character more subdued. In the case of brewing a classic Hefeweizen, that would be bad. In respect to adding lemon-lime flavors, I think subduing the yeast character is a positive move.

Pressure fermenting as a practice is precisely for taking yeast character away, e.g. erasing esters from a lager yeast fermented warmer than recommended.

 

[Kornssj]

Yesterday I would say was a great success. I took some great notes from a "POST" and was able to get the following readings.

Starting Volume : 8.1 GAL
Recorded Mash Time : 63min
Recorded Mash Out : 11 min
Post Mash Out Reading : 1.035 @ 7.2 GAL Pre Boil Volume.
OG Measurement (going into fermenter) : 1.041 @ 6 GAL Final Volume.

Notes :
- Don't stick your finger into the treads of your kettle to get crud out. Threads are extremely sharp and will shred your finger.
- Went with crystalized lime instead of Lemon Zest and also changed Limeade for Lemonade. It was an availability issue so i had to pivot to make these changes.
- .25OZ of crystalized lime is PLENTY! @ 6gal and 5 min left for boil. Could probably scale back to .20OZ.

Kind of wondering how to calculate efficiency. I tried to use Beersmith but I didn't get a reading post Mash. I just went straight to Mast Out and got a reading Pre-boil, not sure if I can calculate mash efficiency that way? Anyways, I had a blast with my first BIAB batch (technically second but we won't tell anyone about that first batch lol). It was much more simple when having a plan going from A - Z. You can see my notes in the photos below. Typing everything out before I did it was really helpful. All I needed to do was check things off as I went and it made me not panic as I might forget something. Might try more of this documented method as I go to help improve efficiency.

The All Rounder was very simple, and spunding valve is pretty cool. Only issue is thermometer which I had to tape to the side of the tank and insulate. I wasn't able to install a thermowell within time (perhaps for next batch). Check out photos below if you're curious. I'm looking forward to my first pressure fermeted batch not to mention the closed transfers so this batch will never see oxygen!

Cheers!

 

[Kornssj]

So I'm not sure if this is an issue but I went to open my kegerator where the All Rounder is stored and it smelled bad, like beer was going bad but I knew that was impossible because everything was under pressure which was holding.

Upon further research, I found out that Hefe Yeast produces sulfuric odors and there really isn't anything you can do about it. My questions is, if I burp the All Rounder every day or so and let pressure build back up, will the sulfuric odors start to vanish?

Here are some pictures of the current setup under 8PSI.



Quick update as I get home : It smells so horribly bad like a mix of beer, rotten egg / sewage. This is normal right? I purged the tank and refilled with CO2. Going to keep doing that until the aroma dissipate. Also dropped the PSI to 5 from 8. Just worried about overdoing for an ale.

 

[hottpeper13]

Most brewerys use open fermentation for Hefs to help with sulfur scrubbing. Next time put sanitized foil over the opening then pressurize when krausen subsides.

 

[Kornssj]

Next time put sanitized foil over the opening then pressurize when krausen subsides.

Sorry, not sure I understand, what do I need to do with Foil?

 

[hottpeper13]

Instead of an air lok I put foil over the opening on my fermenter and that lets the CO2 and other compounds out without back pressure.

 

[Kornssj]

Here is photo and video of the Lemonade going into FV. I bought a 120OZ Mini Keg with some ball lock connects for a closed loop transfer. (looking forward to also making soda with this thing)

Took the entire bottle of Lemonade since the bottle was 1.5L almost exact. Probably should have taken a sample but I'm going to save every last sip to the end. Going to bottle about 10-12 bottles and keg the rest.

Really appreciate everyone's input. I'll let you know how it tastes in about 3 days.

 

[Kornssj]

Instead of an air lok I put foil over the opening on my fermenter and that lets the CO2 and other compounds out without back pressure.

I think I will try this on my next Hefe batch. I did some research on open fermentation and find it rather interesting. Apparently when you open ferment, the timeline is a lot shorter? You also seem to increase Ester production making the yeast characters more pronounced.

 

[Kornssj]

Took a little sample today and it was VERY TASTY! I'm going to give it another day or two so total fermentation time will be 9-10 days total.

There was no Banana in the flavor. The taste was a pretty subtle mix of lemon / lime and everything blended. Having followed a water profile and keeping the vessel void of O2, I could taste a vast difference. Really excited to taste more tomorrow and follow up with some more details.

I am getting a bit of a high gravity reading though. I used a refractometer to measure the Gravity of a sample at 1.022 and I'm not sure if that is normal 8 days into fermentation? Perhaps effects of the pressure?

I still have a few days for the number to drop a bit, but my guess is not aerating the wort enough? I know I felt I was a bit lacking on that. Perhaps my Mash temp too high? Anyways, hoping the number drops at least a little in a few days, either way the beer tastes way better than what I was expecting.

 

[BongoYodeler]

@Kornssj Probably everything you wanted to know is in this recipe/thread.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/lemon-lime-hefe-weizen.255659/

 

[Kornssj]

@Kornssj Probably everything you wanted to know is in this recipe/thread.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/lemon-lime-hefe-weizen.255659/

Damit... how did i miss this post.

Thanks for recommending, gott allata of reading to do lol.

 

[VTMongoose]

I am getting a bit of a high gravity reading though. I used a refractometer to measure the Gravity of a sample at 1.022 and I'm not sure if that is normal 8 days into fermentation? Perhaps effects of the pressure?

Refractometers aren't generally used for final gravity readings because ethanol significantly skews the refractive index. Calculating your true final gravity here, I am getting 1.010 which is actually on the dry side for this strain so it seems the beer is most likely finished.

https://www.brewersfriend.com/refractometer-calculator/

 

[Kornssj]

Refractometers aren't generally used for final gravity readings because ethanol significantly skews the refractive index. Calculating your true final gravity here, I am getting 1.010 which is actually on the dry side for this strain so it seems the beer is most likely finished.

https://www.brewersfriend.com/refractometer-calculator/

Thanks I actually kegged on the 25th and its almost all carbed up. I had a few glasses last night and it was excellent! I will try getting a gravity reading from an actual hygrometer (non-digital). I took a reading of a great white I was drinking and it said the gravity was at 1.020 which again seemed kind of high for a commercial product, so that makes sense that the refractometer might be off during final gravity readings.

 

[BongoYodeler]

Looking forward to your detailed tasting notes as this recipe has been on my radar for a few years now. I'll get to it some day.

*Pretty sure you'd have to de-gas any carbonated beer to get an accurate gravity reading. The carbonation messes with the reading.

 

[Kornssj]

Looking forward to your detailed tasting notes as this recipe has been on my radar for a few years now. I'll get to it some day.

*Pretty sure you'd have to de-gas any carbonated beer to get an accurate gravity reading. The carbonation messes with the reading.

Here are some notes in regards to the tasting. Beer is ready to drink and I got a nice tall orange glass right beside me .

Sight : Take a look at the picture below. Gorgeous color. I can't say enough about how good this beer looks. I want to make love to it hahaha.



Smell / Aroma : Smells like someone took lemon and lime rind and mixed them together in the palm of their hand. Also has a powerful Heff smell in the back. The foam smells like Pure Hefeweizen, but when the foam dissipates you lose the Heff smell and it goes back to lemon / lime rind.



Taste :

Light sip : First thing you taste is the slight bittering of the Crystalized lime. It tastes as though dropped a lemon into my Heff. Only using .25G (probably a bit less) of crystalized lime 5 mins before end of boil really punches the lime flavor to the max. I knew I didn't need to add anymore and I was right. The slight bitter washes away with lemon and lime in the middle and a very slight clove at the tail end.

Big Gulping sip : Its lightly sour at the beginning (effects of the crystalized lime) but quickly washes away into a "Lemon Shandy" type taste where the wheat is pronounced. None of the banana comes through (effects of the pressure fermentation). Some of the clove comes through at the end within the aftertaste at the very tail end but after you've stopped drinking for about a minute. The end of the beer is very clean and does not feel heavy or weighted down (most likely a result of pressure).


Conclusion : I deviated from the recipe by adding crystalized lime instead of lemon / lime zest. You hear of sour beers that are made by addition of salts, this kind of felt like that. I also deviated by adding lemonade instead of limeade. Next time this is what I would do to improve the recipe :

- Don't add crystalized lime at the end of the boil, its way too overpowering even when adding .25G to near 6gal of Wort. Go with the recipe of Lemon Zest or Lime Zest.
- Hunt down Limeade or make my own. I suspect the flavor profile will be much different.
- Use much less pressure around 3-5PSI during fermentation instead of the 13 that I started with at the beginning and changed to 8 throughout. In my case this was positive since it took away all yeast characteristics while keeping it tasting like a Heff if that makes sense. In the future, I do want a stronger clove to come through and I'm positive with that much pressure the banana will be suppressed.

Overall an excellent beer that I will make again with some tweaks.

Cheers!

 

[BongoYodeler]

Looks and sounds great!! Maybe this will be the year I finally brew this. But if I do it will be in the warmer months of summer, and I'll likely brew the recipe I linked, as I already have it scaled to my setup and saved in Beersmith.

 

[redrocker652002]

Cool. I am not a huge Hefe guy, but this looks like it might be a nice beer to try. I am going to print the initial recipe sheet and put it on my "to try" list.

 

[BongoYodeler]

Cool. I am not a huge Hefe guy, but this looks like it might be a nice beer to try. I am going to print the initial recipe sheet and put it on my "to try" list.

LOL, careful I did that too....6 or 7 years ago. I have yet to brew it. As I say every January, "this may be the year."

 

[Bobby_M]

Cool. I am not a huge Hefe guy, but this looks like it might be a nice beer to try. I am going to print the initial recipe sheet and put it on my "to try" list.

It doesn't have to be done with Hefe yeast. If you're not interested in the banana/clove flavors just ferment with a neutral ale yeast.