Which yeast is your favorite dry yeast for making mead?

[NeverDie]

Did ya end up doing a batch w/D47?

Here's a thread I came across from others doing Mead with D47 ---

http://www.gotmead.com/forum/showthread.php/8633-Lalvin-ICV-D-47-yeast

Yup, D47 is under test.

 

[Maylar]

Back to the main topic of the yeast testing: by when do I need to move it off the lees? Some, like 1388, seem to have already flocculated clear enough to read a newspaper, but at the same time they may (?) still be bubbling at a very slow rate. Is a non-changing SG the only reliable guideline for deciding?

You're making a bunch of small batches, right? So as they approach completion one of your data points would be SG after XX days at YY temperature. Also note the flocculation. I wouldn't worry about racking until all of them have finished and are as clear as they're going to get without fining.

What you're looking for next, I think, is being able to do the sensory evaluation on them as dry meads. You want to rack off the lees before doing that.

 

[bmd2k1]

Gotta pic of this big test in action - gal container city! [emoji57]

 

[NeverDie]

I had read that 71B in particular can develop off flavors if left on its lees for "too long"--I think one source said in as little as 3 weeks--and so I wasn't sure 1. is it true?, 2. if so, how long is too long?, and 3. when to start the clock on measuring that? As usual, using just google, there's lots of conflicting information that one can find.

 

[Blacksmith1]

When I asked about racking and lees @Yooper told me when they're 1/4 inch.

 

[Maylar]

I had read that 71B in particular can develop off flavors if left on its lees for "too long"--I think one source said in as little as 3 weeks--and so I wasn't sure 1. is it true?, 2. if so, how long is too long?, and 3. when to start the clock on measuring that? As usual, using just google, there's lots of conflicting information that one can find.

It's nonsense. An example of how some half truth can pervade the web and become urban legend (brewroom legend? ) that gets parroted by clueless people. Yes, 71B lees can undergo autolysis, but it takes time and pressure for that to happen. If you had a 1000 gallon vat of wine putting a few tons of pressure on the lees, then you would be concerned. But at our level it's insignificant. I've had cider on a 1/4" of 71B lees for a year with no ill effect.

 

[Maylar]

When I asked about racking and lees @Yooper told me when they're 1/4 inch.

Yeah if your intent is to do long term aging that's a good idea, but our friend here is just looking to make some clean mead he can taste to evaluate the performance of different yeasts.

My normal modality is to rack off the gross lees at about 1.020 and let it finish. Then cold crash (if possible) and rack again when it's clear. From there mead can age for months and only drop a dusting over time.

 

[Maylar]

Gotta pic of this big test in action - gal container city! [emoji57]

I was gonna ask that too... this guy's counter top must be a sight to behold.

 

[NeverDie]

Too much light on a countertop, and no way the wife would agree to that. I have it in a closet where it can be kept dark. I'll look into taking a photo for you curious dudes.

 

[NeverDie]

Even with the extra nutes, the Hornindal Kveik quickly went sulfurous on me, and so I dumped it. It was a straight pitch direct from an Omega labs pouch that I had picked up at the local homebrew store yesterday. It had a February 15 mfg. date.

This is actually rather consistent with my prior experience for Hornindal, and now I think pretty much confirms it. I've been able to get Hornindal to work in the past, but only if I first made a highly aerated starter, which I didn't do this time. It's an interesting yeast, but since it's not a dry yeast anyway, I'm not going to try it again for this particular roundup. I still have the Voss Kveik included though. The Voss is still a good yeast and, at least in my experience, is not as high maintenance as the Hornindal.

 

[Miraculix]

Even with the extra nutes, the Hornindal Kveik quickly went sulfurous on me, and so I dumped it. It was a straight pitch direct from an Omega labs pouch that I had picked up at the local homebrew store yesterday. It had a February 15 mfg. date.

This is actually rather consistent with my prior experience for Hornindal, and now I think pretty much confirms it. I've been able to get Hornindal to work in the past, but only if I first made a highly aerated starter, which I didn't do this time. It's an interesting yeast, but since it's not a dry yeast anyway, I'm not going to try it again for this particular roundup. I still have the Voss Kveik included though. The Voss is still a good yeast and, at least in my experience, is not as high maintenance as the Hornindal.

Yes, Kveik was selectively evolving in higher og worts and therefore is accustomed to high level of nutrients. I cannot say how much but lower gravity beer wort can already be not enough. Honey therefore really needs to be bumped with nuts.

 

[Maylar]

I've been thinking about your eventual analysis of the test results. When I submit my ciders to competitions I look forward to the score sheets coming back, with comments from certified judges. They always find something that is so subtle (to me) that I'd never have known otherwise. I've adjusted my processes as a result of the feedback that I've received.

Now granted that's for a finished product, not the "as fermented" young cider. But my point is that there are people who have been trained and certified in tasting stuff, and I'm not.

Case in point - I had a cider that was so good a friend's SO offered to buy a sixer from me. That's a pretty high compliment. Yet a comp judge said it smelled of baby vomit (butyric acid) and scored me very poorly.

OK, so the point of this (yeah there is one) is that you've mentioned in another thread that there are wine tasting parlors everywhere around you. It might be worth your while to visit them and see if there are any mead or wine certified judges around who might be willing to give you a professional opinion on your meads when the time comes.

Just tossing out an idea...

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Butyrate seems to be one of those things that some people super-taste. An ex was one, she struggled with a number of big-name beers because of the baby vomit that I and others couldn't detect, and she couldn't cope with sours at all.

 

[NeverDie]

I've been thinking about your eventual analysis of the test results. When I submit my ciders to competitions I look forward to the score sheets coming back, with comments from certified judges. They always find something that is so subtle (to me) that I'd never have known otherwise. I've adjusted my processes as a result of the feedback that I've received.

Now granted that's for a finished product, not the "as fermented" young cider. But my point is that there are people who have been trained and certified in tasting stuff, and I'm not.

Case in point - I had a cider that was so good a friend's SO offered to buy a sixer from me. That's a pretty high compliment. Yet a comp judge said it smelled of baby vomit (butyric acid) and scored me very poorly.

OK, so the point of this (yeah there is one) is that you've mentioned in another thread that there are wine tasting parlors everywhere around you. It might be worth your while to visit them and see if there are any mead or wine certified judges around who might be willing to give you a professional opinion on your meads when the time comes.

Just tossing out an idea...

I hadn't asked about judges, but yesterday at Austin Homebrew Supply store, I asked if they knew of any mead clubs. They didn't. Their suggestion was to contact either Sherwood Forrest (a stationary medieval re-enactment carnival) or possibly the Society for Creative Anachronisms. Hmm... so apparently that's where making mead fits into the modern landscape: an anachronism of interest to people who dress in chainmail and go jousting. LOL.

And here I thought it was the drink of the gods. Well, still do.

 

[Maylar]

I will inquire on GotMead.

 

[Blacksmith1]

I picked a few carboys from a former beer brewer last week. When he asked what I was making I told him wine, mead, and cider. His immediate response was "What's mead?" I don't get it. I've known what mead was most of my life even tho no one in the family made or drank it till Mom and I found some dry white she liked enough to order by the case when I was in my mid 20's.

 

[NeverDie]

As requested, here's a photo:

Not much to look at, but there it is. 17 bottles under airlock. Two more bottles (M05 and M31) will be joining them after their second sugar break is reached.

In case you're wondering, the tape is to anchor the stoppers and keep them from popping out and also to ensure what I hope is an airtight seal. These are 3L springwater bottles made out of PETE plastic.

 

[z-bob]

Good job! You know you gotta drink all that?

 

[NeverDie]

Good job! You know you gotta drink all that?

Yes, but not all at once. The problem I've had with aging mead is that usually I don't have much of it, because I've been making only small test batches to figure out what works, what doesn't, and what I like best. Because of that, I tended to drink what little I had before it could age. This may help with that. Also, once I narrow down what yeasts I'll be using, I hope to make bigger batches.

I use star san in the airlocks. A useful trick I found is to put one drop of anti-foam in the airlock, so that the star san doesn't foam. I don't fear the foam, except when it's in an airlock, because then it just bubbles itself into oblivion.

I chose Ozark spring water because that is what Bray uses.

 

[bmd2k1]

As requested, here's a photo:
View attachment 617753
Not much to look at, but there it is. 17 bottles under airlock. Two more bottles (M05 and M31) will be joining them after their second sugar break is reached.

In case you're wondering, the tape is to anchor the stoppers and keep them from popping out and also to ensure what I hope is an airtight seal. These are 3L springwater bottles made out of PETE plastic.

Major mead throwdown! Dig it [emoji111]

 

[Maylar]

Roger that!

 

[NeverDie]

Summary Status of Room Temperature Dry Yeast Mead Trial

The 15 dry yeasts currently under trial are (in no particular order):

1. DV10,
2. S-04,
3. EC-1118 (two separate batches: one rehydrated using GoFerm and the other direct pitched),
4. Belle Saison,
5. K1V-1116,
6. D21,
7. Red Star Cote des Blancs,
8. D47,
9. Red Star Premier Blanco,
10. Fleishmann's,
11. 71B,
12. Red Star Premier Cuvee,
13. Fresco,
14. Mangrove Jack's M31, and
15. Mangrove Jack's M05.

Of these, all are under airlock, except for the last two, which just started fermenting yesterday.

The honey used is Costco clover honey and the water used is Ozark spring water. Yes, I realize Costco honey may fall short of the ideal (local honey), but I deem it good enough for the purpose of this experiment.

The 3 liquid yeasts (for comparison purposes) are:

1. 1388,
2. Wyeast Sweet Mead, and
3. Voss Kveik.

All three are under airlock.

These are all traditional meads consisting of just honey, spring water, yeast, and nutrients. All of them are fermenting at room temperature (which is around 72F, give or take).

As for nutrients, I am following the newer 6b DLNA protcol here: https://denardbrewing.com/blog/post/brays-one-month-mead/

The OG on all of them was 1.080, except for M05 and M31, which have OG of 1.105 (as will all future tests). If I had it to do over again, based on recent reading, I'd trial them all with an OG of 1.105.

The plan is to let them all ferment to completion, filter out the failures, and then attempt to rank the non-failures.

I don't mind if there are failures. I'm just hoping that, at the end of the day, there are some attractive non-failures remaining after the failures are eliminated.

If you think I missed a really good dry yeast for making mead, then please post and I'll try to fit it in if it seems warranted. That said, I have to draw the line somewhere, and the above list seems to include the most frequently named mead yeasts that I've come across in my reading.

 

[Yooper]

I hadn't asked about judges, but yesterday at Austin Homebrew Supply store, I asked if they knew of any mead clubs. They didn't. Their suggestion was to contact either Sherwood Forrest (a stationary medieval re-enactment carnival) or possibly the Society for Creative Anachronisms. Hmm... so apparently that's where making mead fits into the modern landscape: an anachronism of interest to people who dress in chainmail and go jousting. LOL.

And here I thought it was the drink of the gods. Well, still do.

Do you live in/around Austin? One of my friends (and a longtime member here but now too busy to be on the forum much) has a meadery called Meridian Hive. He’s not there now, as he’s at the Mazer’s Cup, but they have a tap room open on weekends, and I bet he/they could give you some pointers and taste your mead. They have an awesome staff, and it’s a great place to sample meads.

 

[Miraculix]

Summary Status of Room Temperature Dry Yeast Mead Trial

The 15 dry yeasts currently under trial are (in no particular order):

1. DV10,
2. S-04,
3. EC-1118 (two separate batches: one rehydrated using GoFerm and the other direct pitched),
4. Belle Saison,
5. K1V-1116,
6. D21,
7. Red Star Cote des Blancs,
8. D47,
9. Red Star Premier Blanco,
10. Fleishmann's,
11. 71B,
12. Red Star Premier Cuvee,
13. Fresco,
14. Mangrove Jack's M31, and
15. Mangrove Jack's M05.

Of these, all are under airlock, except for the last two, which just started fermenting yesterday.

The honey used is Costco clover honey and the water used is Ozark spring water. Yes, I realize Costco honey may fall short of the ideal (local honey), but I deem it good enough for the purpose of this experiment.

The 3 liquid yeasts (for comparison purposes) are:

1. 1388,
2. Wyeast Sweet Mead, and
3. Voss Kveik.

All three are under airlock.

These are all traditional meads consisting of just honey, spring water, yeast, and nutrients. All of them are fermenting at room temperature (which is around 72F, give or take).

As for nutrients, I am following the newer 6b DLNA protcol here: https://denardbrewing.com/blog/post/brays-one-month-mead/

The OG on all of them was 1.080, except for M05 and M31, which have OG of 1.105 (as will all future tests). If I had it to do over again, based on recent reading, I'd trial them all with an OG of 1.105.

The plan is to let them all ferment to completion, filter out the failures, and then attempt to rank the non-failures.

I don't mind if there are failures. I'm just hoping that, at the end of the day, there are some attractive non-failures remaining after the failures are eliminated.

If you think I missed a really good dry yeast for making mead, then please post and I'll try to fit it in if it seems warranted. That said, I have to draw the line somewhere, and the above list seems to include the most frequently named mead yeasts that I've come across in my reading.

Again, thank you very much for going through the effort and especially for putting it all online. This is really useful for everyone.

I made one mead with cbc1 at 30c during the summer which got a bit hot, but at normal temperature it might be a good choice,choice, so you might want to look at it as well. I am having california lager from mj fermenting at the moment looking and tasting promising, maybe that would be a good idea as well.

 

[NeverDie]

Do you live in/around Austin?

Yes I do. Thanks for the pointer. I'll look them up and pay a visit. I had tried a couple of Meredian's low ABV carbonated meads, as they're widely available locally.

 

[NeverDie]

Again, thank you very much for going through the effort and especially for putting it all online. This is really useful for everyone.

I made one mead with cbc1 at 30c during the summer which got a bit hot, but at normal temperature it might be a good choice,choice, so you might want to look at it as well. I am having california lager from mj fermenting at the moment looking and tasting promising, maybe that would be a good idea as well.

I had considered cbc1, but according to its specs, "The optimal temperature range for CBC-1 yeast when refermenting is 15°C(59°F) to 25°C(77°F)." That doesn't leave a lot of leeway on the upper end of the temperature scale compared to room temperature. Also, it claims to have a neutral ferment, and I have enough yeasts with neutral ferments in the trial already. So, for those reasons, I didn't pick it for the trial.

However, re-reading its description, it says, "CBC-1 referments beer efficiently due to its high resistance to alcohol and pressure". That would make it interesting to when/if I ever get the equipment needed to do a pressurized ferment....

 

[NeverDie]

Do you live in/around Austin? One of my friends (and a longtime member here but now too busy to be on the forum much) has a meadery called Meridian Hive. He’s not there now, as he’s at the Mazer’s Cup, but they have a tap room open on weekends, and I bet he/they could give you some pointers and taste your mead. They have an awesome staff, and it’s a great place to sample meads.

What a great lead! Thank you. It turns out that meadery also has free tastings of between 30 to 40 different honey varieties as part of their tour.

 

[NeverDie]

Reporting back: I tried Schramm's "The Statement" and also Schramm's Blackberry mead. To me, "The Statement" tasted like cherry medicine, and the Blackberry tasted like a blackberry wine with just a hint of honey. I'm hugely disappointed. To my tastes, they miss the mark entirely. I've had locally produced meads that taste far better than this.

Well, to each his own, but that stuff is definitely not for me.

 

[NeverDie]

What's the Fresco's aroma like so far? I hope to start a cyser with mine tomorrow.

Did you start your Fresco cyser yet? I started my Fresco cyser early this morning. I know I'm jumping the gun a bit, without knowing how the fresco traditional mead has turned out, but I figure it's meant for cider, and I have extra vials of Fresco, so....

Anyhow, I did some back of the envelope calculations, figuring that my Sam's Club apple juice has a Brix of 15. So, I took Bray's BOMM and subtracted out the honey equivalent of that sugar, which left me with just 623g of honey. So, I added 623g of honey to a 1 gallon jar, added apple juice but left a healthy headroom and started it using Fresco yeast and the BOMM 6b nutrient protocol (https://denardbrewing.com/blog/post/brays-one-month-mead/). After the initial yeast orgy is over,

I'll fill up the remainder of the gallon with AJ and continue with the 6b nutrient protocol, air locking it after the second sugar break.

Is that how you're doing it? Or do you know a better way?

I hadn't thought of it this way before, but so much honey gets displaced by the sugar in the apple juice that cysers are probably cheaper than traditional meads (well, if using Sam's club apple juice. Definitely cheaper if using FAJC to make the apple juice).

Hmm... Come to think of it, if I were to make apple juice using spring water and FAJC, it might actually be better for the yeast than if I were to use an apple juice (like Sam's club apple juice) which does that work for me. Why? Because most likely they're using RO water rather than spring water.

But I presume apple juice that's "not from concentrate," like Martinelli's, would probably be even better for the yeast than that, right? Maybe Martinelli's is worth the extra cost. Come to think of it, my Martinelli cysers in the past did seem to get off to a faster start....

But then again, because any minerals in the original apple juice would probably still be there in the FAJC, so maybe it doesn't matter that RO water is probably used by bottled AJ producers to reconstitute the AJ.

 

[NeverDie]

Since the question of "Why not just use temp control to keep whatever yeast at a low temperature?" previously came up, here is my rationale:

I figure it takes at minimum of 24 gallons of mead in the pipeline. Why 24? Because apparently aging mead for 2 years is considered a major benefit. 24 means I can have 1 gallon per month on the way to the 2 year mark, and if I replenish at the rate of one gallon a month, I can have a gallon of two year old mead once a month thereafter.

24 gallons is a lot to refrigerate.

Ergo, I need yeast that won't go bad during the summer months, when temps may creep up beyond room temperature (especially if I go on vacation), for both new fermentations and aging fermentations.

Well, that's my theory anyway. Maybe there are holes in it.