Which dry lager yeast to use

[Bramling Cross]

reading back, I was referring to using S-189 in the 1 gal batch. I guess I thought that was implied. But, for now I have tasted diacetyl in every lager I have tried. I used Novalager once on a test batch and it cleared within a week.

I'm using brewzyme-d in my current brew with s-23. The 5 yeast test I am going to do was to include 34/70, S23, S189, Lutra, and Nova in a split batch. I think I'll leave out the lutra and do a second 34/70 without the brewzyme and see what happens. I think this might answer if the batch of 34/70 I have is somehow not good.

I apologize for missing that.

I have nothing else to offer, I just hope things work out for you. It looks like you have a solid plan in place, and that's the key thing. You're going to get this figured out!

 

[Witherby]

Yup...

I have tried several in the low 50s and a warm ferment at room temp. Only one, after about 4 months was drinkable without any diacetyl taste. However, all others still had it after 4 months. I have done the typical d-rest and followed recommended schedules, but it is always present. Some have suggested that I am just sensitive to the taste.

I am a big proponent of kräusening. It has many benefits including cleaning up diacetyl. You can read my technique in this thread:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/kraeusening-secondary-lager-fermentation.729150/#post-10301493

I usually save a small part of my starter for the kräusening but with dry yeast you just save a small amount of the dry yeast packet. I am in the process of doing it this week with a batch of Kellerbier using one Pack of Diamond lager and one of 34/70 because that was all I had.

 

[JohnDBrewer]

Just put 10gal of a Festbeir into the fermenters yesterday. Split the batch using Diamond and Mangrove Jack M-76 Bavarian Lager. Used a couple of MJ products over the last year or so and have had great results. Pitched according to manufacturers instructions (one was hydrated, the other sprinkled on top) at 4pm and by 9 both were actively bubbling.

Been on a Nova Lager run for the last 6 months, as they donated a bunch of it for our club comp gift bags/raffles. Thank you Lalbrew. Very good yeast. Never used it before. Didn't use it on the festbeir, as I had a pack of Diamond about to expire and found the M-76 in with it.

 

[Gajol]

I just wanted to share a bit of my experience with both Saflager 34/70 and Lallemand NovaLager. I've had really good results using both strains – not only at traditional low lager temperatures, but also at higher fermentation temps. They've both proven to be quite forgiving and still produce clean, crisp lagers even when things run a bit warmer.


I also pretty much always do pressure fermentation, which I think helps a lot with keeping esters in check at higher temperatures.

 

[wdavis2003]

Everyone raves about w34/70 however I feel like I need a change. I'm never quite getting what I want with it.

My next options is to save a bit of money, time and refrigeration time and do the new Lallemand Fast Lager Fermentation with Diamond Lager yeast.

I've gotten more subpar results with it than above average results with it myself. It's prone to off flavors for me. Probably my fault I'm sure

 

[BasementArtie]

I've gotten more subpar results with it than above average results with it myself. It's prone to off flavors for me. Probably my fault I'm sure

With 34/70 or Diamond?

 

[wdavis2003]

With 34/70 or Diamond?

34/70

 

[hilljack13]

So far not sure how I feel about S23. Fermentation started 3 Jun @1.055 and today I am at 1.0145 (according to my Tilt). Based on past brews this is more likely to be around 1.016. Attenuation seems to be lacking on this one. I was expecting at least the 80% min. I have until Tuesday as my initial target to end primary so we'll see. I'll plan on leaving it a few more days or another week if it at least shows slow movement.

 

[dmtaylor]

So far not sure how I feel about S23. Fermentation started 3 Jun @1.055 and today I am at 1.0145 (according to my Tilt). Based on past brews this is more likely to be around 1.016. Attenuation seems to be lacking on this one. I was expecting at least the 80% min. I have until Tuesday as my initial target to end primary so we'll see. I'll plan on leaving it a few more days or another week if it at least shows slow movement.

In my experience, S-23 averages about 76% attenuation... which is almost exactly what you are seeing. Fermentation is basically done, or maybe will fall one or two more points but that is all. It will not ferment to 1.011, that's very unlikely.

 

[hilljack13]

In my experience, S-23 averages about 76% attenuation... which is almost exactly what you are seeing. Fermentation is basically done, or maybe will fall one or two more points but that is all. It will not ferment to 1.011, that's very unlikely.

Wish Fermentis would get more accurate on what they publish. My recipe was also based off getting around 6.6%abv. I'm going to be lucky to get 5.5%.

It's beer so it will do.

 

[1Pivoman]

34/70 yes, but my experience with Diamond is less than desired. I pressure fermented it around 65F, TONS of red apple. a local brewer used NovaLager in a dark lager and it’s excellent, going to try it next time for dry lager fermentation until temps cool here in the Midwest.

 

[leedspointbrew]

Please do report back after a few weeks. It might need to condition for just a short while, but after it cleans up, this yeast is hard to beat.

Reporting back as requested. Slightly different recipe / process than my last two lagers; I like this one more. Can't say how much of the improvement is yeast-driven, if any; I'd have to reiterate with 34/70 to be certain. S-189 certainly does not suck.

 

[hilljack13]

Pilsner 80%
Munich II 20%
16 IBU Hallertauer Mittelfruh @90
4.7 IBU Hallertauer Mittelfruh @10

I finally got around to kegging this brew yesterday. It fermented 37 days. I did add the brewzyme-d, 10 ML per instructions. I was a bit disappointed because what I taste was the same as all my other lagers. If what I taste is diacetyl, it wasn't as bad, but it was close to normal. I am starting to wonder if what I am tasting is something else that just needs more time.

Well, the brew is in the keg and going to lager now in the kegerator. I'll report back around mid Sept or early Oct.

I did use S-23.
Fermentation:
1) 52F 6 days
2) raised to 57F over 3 days and left for 11 days. I did this because I read somewhere this yeast will wake up after a slight temp raise.
3)@54F for the remainder

 

[BrewerofBeers]

34/70 if you want an all-around yeast that isn't terribly fussy about ferm temps. It ferments clean up into the 60s.

S-189 has always worked well for me, too. Never tried S-23.

How does it handle 65F? I am going to do a Czech-style Pilsner with this and I think it will stay around 65. Brulosophy fermented comparison beers with 34/70 at the temperature range extremes and found no discernible difference between the two! Just curious what the real-world experience is. The package says 48.2-71.6F (ideally 53-59F).

 

[MaxStout]

How does it handle 65F? I am going to do a Czech-style Pilsner with this and I think it will stay around 65. Brulosophy fermented comparison beers with 34/70 at the temperature range extremes and found no discernible difference between the two! Just curious what the real-world experience is. The package says 48.2-71.6F (ideally 53-59F).

I've never fermented it that warm, but based on what others have reported that temp should be fine.

 

[dmtaylor]

How does it handle 65F? I am going to do a Czech-style Pilsner with this and I think it will stay around 65. Brulosophy fermented comparison beers with 34/70 at the temperature range extremes and found no discernible difference between the two! Just curious what the real-world experience is. The package says 48.2-71.6F (ideally 53-59F).

Either W-34/70 or S-189 will turn out great at 65 F. The esters produced are from zero to very minor and pleasant.

 

[BrewerofBeers]

Sounds good. I got the 34/70 yeast packet in the mail today and the stated temp range on the package is actually "ideally" 53.6-64.4F. For the record.

 

[Willy]

34/70 is my "go to". Also used novalager and liked it. Planning on seeing if I can do novalager at 68°F.

 

[Miraculix]

3470 is clean and most forgiving. If I'm on the hunt for some issues, i'd use this one because the yeast as a source of problems is ruled out this way.

Diacethyl (never had this in my final brews tbh) can be easily mitigated by raising the temperature to room temperature for the last couple of gravity points. Why are you not just doing that?

 

[passedpawn]

S-189.

I've tried them all, a lot.

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

For warm-fermenting lagers (say with 34/70, or S-189)... Is that only advisable with a fermenter than can hold some pressure? With frozen jugs of water and a cool basement, I can keep my fermenting beers between 62 and 68 pretty well (tho it definitely isn't held too steady). Don't have any ability to actually "lager" until after bottling. Is there any hope for making a nice bock beer with my current situation? For that matter, would a bock grist, fermented with something clean like good old us-05 be that heretical? I'm definitely not a purist.

 

[dmtaylor]

I don't ferment under pressure. It's NOT required!

would a bock grist, fermented with something clean like good old us-05 be that heretical? I'm definitely not a purist.

Yes IMO. It might make beer, but it won't be a very good lager.

 

[Miraculix]

For warm-fermenting lagers (say with 34/70, or S-189)... Is that only advisable with a fermenter than can hold some pressure? With frozen jugs of water and a cool basement, I can keep my fermenting beers between 62 and 68 pretty well (tho it definitely isn't held too steady). Don't have any ability to actually "lager" until after bottling. Is there any hope for making a nice bock beer with my current situation? For that matter, would a bock grist, fermented with something clean like good old us-05 be that heretical? I'm definitely not a purist.

I'd prefer 3470 at room temperature in this case. It's not 100% as clean as cold fermented, but closer than us05. I did this quite often, 3470 can make great beers warm. I'm not sure if it's the best fit for a bock though. I would use imperial yeast harvest for this type of beer. Harvest also works well warm fermented.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

Interesting to hear that SafLager 34/70 is "ideal" at 53+... I've always fermented it around 49-50. Had good luck.

Actually brewed a pilsner yesterday and it's still getting cooled down to pitching temps, but I guess I'll probably pitch around 50 and let it come back up towards 53-54... I like to keep pretty much every beer as clean as possible.

I've never brewed with S-189, but I did brew with S-23 and found that I much preferred 34/70.