Adding small % dark/pale rye malt to dark lagers worth it?

[wildturkey]

I have read the blogs on roggenbiers and other American style rye beers. However, these threads recommend additions from 10-90% rye malt.

I am considering a small tweak in a Franconian dunkel I’ve brewed in the past, 5 gallon recipe below. I am considering a reduction in Carafa II from 8oz to 4oz and adding a dark rye 4oz addition.

The current dunkel is extremely quaffable and enjoyable. Garnet highlights, off white and lasting head, dark chocolate, and bread crust flavors.

My thought process for the change is to increase “breadiness” with the rye malt and reduce the subtle almost roast flavor of dark chocolate/coffee.

Does anyone have experience with using rye in small additions?
What types of beers can dark rye be utilized?
Is there a replacement for dark rye?

7.5lbs Munich 9L
1lbs Pilsner (German)
8oz Carafa II

60min Hallertau Mittelfruh
25min Hallertau Mittelfruh
Total IBUs: 23
Wyeast 2308

Proposed grain bill:
7.5lbs Munich 9L
1lbs Pilsner (German)
4oz Carafa II
4oz Cararye/dark rye


Thanks in advance!

Cheers,
Wildturkey

 

[dmtaylor]

Not too many people are using dark roasted rye malt yet. I love it. I have used more than your 4 oz, that is what I would recommend... maybe replace ALL your Carafa II with the dark rye to see what it can do for you. Don't be afraid of it!

 

[AlexKay]

In general, I think you can swap huskless roast barley, midnight wheat, and chocolate rye in most any recipe, 1-1. It will absolutely change the beer, but I think generally you’ll get something good.

Huskless roast barley includes Carafa Special, but not the regular Carafa. Briess makes Blackprinz, which is also huskless, I believe.

And me too, I love chocolate rye.

 

[Knox]

Does anyone have experience with using rye in small additions?
What types of beers can dark rye be utilized?

Hey Wildturkey,

I have experience with using rye, from when I was working at a brewery. We used it in our 'Classic' lager which was really popular. We also used it in some of our seasonal beers which were meant to be more nuanced in their malt profile. The one we got (from Gyrup Malt in Denmark) had a pleasant flavor of danish rye bread (a more extreme brick version of pumpernickel bread).
We added about 10% Dark Rye (called Cara Rye in our case it was about 110-130 EBC) into our Classic Lager and about 15 or 17% into our Seasonal Dubbel. I only got to brew it twice, so I don't remember the malt bull for the seasonal one. I should still have a picture of the Classic Lager somewhere.

I would switch from Carafa II to Carafa Special II to reduce the roasted character a bit, as @AlexKay recommends.

 

[rmr9]

I used 4oz chocolate rye alongside 10oz carafa iii special in a schwarzbier and I detected a noticeable - but not overpowering - chocolate note to the beer. I feel it added nicely to the beer but I would definitely use it in a very limited way for a dunkel - I think the amount you have will probably be ok

 

[AmarikinBrew]

Simpson's DRC at 5.5% of the grain bill and above is said to give rye notes, dried prune, as well as bread crust ect. I've not tried this yet, I'm just echoing others experiences.
I'm thinking about a old world German wheat with Weyermann dark wheat @5.5% incorporated and DRC @5.5% or greater.