Which dry lager yeast to use

[hilljack13]

Finally getting around to brewing my oktoberfest tomorrow. I have S-23 as the yeast for now. I picked it because I have 10 packs and need to try it at some point. My other options are 34/70 and S-189. I have lots of 34/70 but have diacetyl issues, however I am going to use brewzyme-d as well for the first time.

Is there any reason not to stick with S-23?

Pilsner 80%
Munich II 20%
16 IBU Hallertauer Mittelfruh @90
4.7 IBU Hallertauer Mittelfruh @10

 

[fluketamer]

34/70 wins everytime against the other yeasts you have listed.
s23 less forgiving and 189 is yuck.

i have made almost that exact beer (HM 60 and 10) many times and its good.

esp with 34/70 at 60 degrees.

 

[hilljack13]

I did try this last year in a 1 gal batch. Warm fermented with 34/70 at room temp and was OK. I guess when I think about it that is why I want to try something else. Although, I don't think my 1 gal brews come out as good as my 5 gal batches. I was planning on fermenting this one at 53F. Maybe 52F because I am using the brewzyme-d.

 

[fluketamer]

smaller quantity liquids are harder to maintain an equilibrium with.

thats why larger fish tanks are easier to keep going.

temp swings will affect 1 gallon much more than 5

although others have had success with warm 34/70 ( 68 and above ) i fidn its better on the cooler side especially less than 62 deg

 

[Willy]

34/70 - 80% of batches. Ferment at 56-57°F.

Novalager - 20% of batches at 59-62°F

 

[hilljack13]

I am also planning a split batch doing the full 5 gal batch but fermenting with, 34/70, S23, s189, Nova, and Lutra using my LBMBs. Only the ultra will be warm fermented.

 

[dmtaylor]

S-23 is fine, but for me...

S-189 is always the best answer.

 

[jdubdvdt]

I split my batch into two and fermented one with S-23 and the other with Diamond. I like them both, but the S-23 does leave a bit more from the malt and has a definite fruity flavor when I tasted them side by side. I tried to do a triangle test the other day, but failed half the time.

I have never used S-189, but S-23 was good. To me it seemed more like an American Oktoberfest.

 

[jdauria]

If those were my only options, I would go with 34-70 all the time. Have a Marzen on tap now that used NovaLager. It came out fantastic. The other dry yeast I would use for that style is WLP860 Munich Helles, the Augustiner strain, it's a great yeast for malt forward lagers.

 

[jdubdvdt]

If those were my only options, I would go with 34-70 all the time. Have a Marzen on tap now that used NovaLager. It came out fantastic. The other dry yeast I would use for that style is WLP860 Munich Helles, the Augustiner strain, it's a great yeast for malt forward lagers.

860 is a great yeast. I made my Helles, Oktoberfest, and Festbier with it last year. I think I would prefer 34/70 for the Festbier. I am going to try Cellarscience German and see how that goes since its so cheap.

 

[jdauria]

860 is a great yeast. I made my Helles, Oktoberfest, and Festbier with it last year. I think I would prefer 34/70 for the Festbier. I am going to try Cellarscience German and see how that goes since its so cheap.

Yeah I just responded to you on the Augustiner Helles recipe thread that 860 is pretty much my house yeast for German malt forward beers. I may even try it with my Czech Dark one of these days. Using it on a Helles on Saturday.

 

[wdavis2003]

You are going to get everybody's personal preference and as for me, it's S-23 all day. Can ferment warm if needed with good results and crystal clear every time.

 

[hilljack13]

used NovaLager

I have used nova once, for a vienna lager and it was actually good enough that my "bud light lime" only wife liked it. This is why I plan to do the split with all these yeast. I bought a 500g brick of 34/70 when I started back and only have a few sachets of the others to try. Once done I'll find out which I like best.

I did try S-189 and it seemed to come out better for me than 34/70. I admit I am still getting my pilsner type beers down.

 

[hilljack13]

I went with S-23. I also ended up messing up a bit. I have been trying to get more acuate with my AIO and found somewhere that 1oz of hops will cause a loss of about 12oz. Changed my default "loss" from 0.53gal to 0.28gal for this batch. Guess what? Ended up at 4.5g in FV.... Add 1 gal plus a few scoops of corn sugar and got it where it supposed to be. 5.5g/FV and 1.055OG.

 

[leedspointbrew]

S-23 is fine, but for me...

S-189 is always the best answer.

Not to hijack the thread, but me and my currently fermenting lager hope you're right.

 

[dmtaylor]

Not to hijack the thread, but me and my currently fermenting lager hope you're right.

Please do report back after a few weeks. It might need to condition for just a short while, but after it cleans up, this yeast is hard to beat.

 

[MaxStout]

34/70 if you want an all-around yeast that isn't terribly fussy about ferm temps. It ferments clean up into the 60s.

S-189 has always worked well for me, too. Never tried S-23.

 

[Halfakneecap]

Never liked 34/70. S 189 or S 23 are my fave dry lager yeast strains.

 

[Ramjet]

I use diamond lager yeast for my marzen and pressure ferment. Comes out good

 

[BasementArtie]

Everyone raves about w34/70 however I feel like I need a change. I'm never quite getting what I want with it.

My next options is to save a bit of money, time and refrigeration time and do the new Lallemand Fast Lager Fermentation with Diamond Lager yeast.

 

[mabrungard]

I have lots of 34/70 but have diacetyl issues, however I am going to use brewzyme-d as well for the first time.

You have diacetyl with 34/70?? I've not experienced that with that yeast.

With regard to the Diamond Lager yeast, I find that its actually too clean for my tastes. I like the German character and maltiness of 34/70. But I can understand if you don't want that in the beer you're brewing.

 

[Bramling Cross]

You have diacetyl with 34/70?? I've not experienced that with that yeast.

With regard to the Diamond Lager yeast, I find that its actually too clean for my tastes. I like the German character and maltiness of 34/70. But I can understand if you don't want that in the beer you're brewing.

I certainly agree with your assessment of Diamond, that has been my experience. For about four years I used Diamond for my July and August fizzy yellow swills because it really dries a beer out and made a pretty good dry beer for July and August. I ultimately abandoned Diamond because it showed some inconsistency on its attenuation that neither 34/70 nor S-189 demonstrated. When i moved back to 34/70 for my high summer beers things returned to running like clockwork.

 

[Bramling Cross]

I have lots of 34/70 but have diacetyl issues

I would focus my attention on what is driving your diacetyl issues with 34/70. It's a really forgiving strain and not a noted diacetyl producer. Are you fermenting below 50F?

 

[MaxStout]

Certain infections, particularly pediococcus, can generate diacetyl.

 

[hilljack13]

You have diacetyl with 34/70??

Yup...

I would focus my attention on what is driving your diacetyl issues with 34/70. It's a really forgiving strain and not a noted diacetyl producer. Are you fermenting below 50F?

I have tried several in the low 50s and a warm ferment at room temp. Only one, after about 4 months was drinkable without any diacetyl taste. However, all others still had it after 4 months. I have done the typical d-rest and followed recommended schedules, but it is always present. Some have suggested that I am just sensitive to the taste.

 

[Broothru]

34/70 - 80% of batches. Ferment at 56-57°F.

Novalager - 20% of batches at 59-62°F

Totally agree that NovaLager at even upper 60sF to lower 70sF will make a fine Oktoberfest. I’ve had good luck with German style lagers in competitions using NovaLager (pressurized) in the 60sF, even though it’s not promoted as an ‘under pressure’ yeast.

It works equally well unpressurized in the 60s, albeit slower than upper 60s pressurized. It’s a good, clean finishing lager yeast. Very versatile.

Also, no complications with BrewZyme, ClarityFerm or other diacetyl blockers.

 

[Bramling Cross]

Yup...

I have tried several in the low 50s and a warm ferment at room temp. Only one, after about 4 months was drinkable without any diacetyl taste. However, all others still had it after 4 months. I have done the typical d-rest and followed recommended schedules, but it is always present. Some have suggested that I am just sensitive to the taste.

Well, sir, I am out of ideas.

I would suggest trying S-189 before trying S-23. S-189 is generally well loved strain and it has a reputation for being easy to work with. S-23, by contrast, has its advocates...but it also has a reputation for being a bit surly to work with.

 

[hilljack13]

Well, sir, I am out of ideas.

I would suggest trying S-189 before trying S-23. S-189 is generally well loved strain and it has a reputation for being easy to work with. S-23, by contrast, has its advocates...but it also has a reputation for being a bit surly to work with.

I tried it on another 1 gal batch a few months ago. We had a power outage and the whole fermentation got out of whack. I thought it was OK at first, but for some reason the taste seemed to be a little off after a few weeks.

 

[Bramling Cross]

I tried it on another 1 gal batch a few months ago. We had a power outage and the whole fermentation got out of whack. I thought it was OK at first, but for some reason the taste seemed to be a little off after a few weeks.

Hmmm, that kinda speaks to post #24, or a packaging issue?

I never like suggesting that sanitation is the problem because it's kinda like accusing someone of being a bad brewer, but it's something that we all struggle with from time to time. There's no shame in it. Maybe that's the root cause?

I've used 34/70 a ton and it just isn't, in my experience, a big diacetyl producer. Frankly, I'm turning around clear lagers with it inside of two weeks in large part because it doesn't really need a D-rest if you use the modern lager method.

I'm not taking a cheap shot at you. These things happen to all of us from time to time, and there's every chance I'm wrong.

 

[hilljack13]

Hmmm, that kinda speaks to post #24, or a packaging issue?

I never like suggesting that sanitation is the problem because it's kinda like accusing someone of being a bad brewer, but it's something that we all struggle with from time to time. There's no shame in it. Maybe that's the root cause?

I've used 34/70 a ton and it just isn't, in my experience, a big diacetyl producer. Frankly, I'm turning around clear lagers with it inside of two weeks in large part because it doesn't really need a D-rest if you use the modern lager method.

I'm not taking a cheap shot at you. These things happen to all of us from time to time, and there's every chance I'm wrong.

reading back, I was referring to using S-189 in the 1 gal batch. I guess I thought that was implied. But, for now I have tasted diacetyl in every lager I have tried. I used Novalager once on a test batch and it cleared within a week.

I'm using brewzyme-d in my current brew with s-23. The 5 yeast test I am going to do was to include 34/70, S23, S189, Lutra, and Nova in a split batch. I think I'll leave out the lutra and do a second 34/70 without the brewzyme and see what happens. I think this might answer if the batch of 34/70 I have is somehow not good.

 

[Bramling Cross]

reading back, I was referring to using S-189 in the 1 gal batch. I guess I thought that was implied. But, for now I have tasted diacetyl in every lager I have tried. I used Novalager once on a test batch and it cleared within a week.

I'm using brewzyme-d in my current brew with s-23. The 5 yeast test I am going to do was to include 34/70, S23, S189, Lutra, and Nova in a split batch. I think I'll leave out the lutra and do a second 34/70 without the brewzyme and see what happens. I think this might answer if the batch of 34/70 I have is somehow not good.

I apologize for missing that.

I have nothing else to offer, I just hope things work out for you. It looks like you have a solid plan in place, and that's the key thing. You're going to get this figured out!

 

[Witherby]

Yup...

I have tried several in the low 50s and a warm ferment at room temp. Only one, after about 4 months was drinkable without any diacetyl taste. However, all others still had it after 4 months. I have done the typical d-rest and followed recommended schedules, but it is always present. Some have suggested that I am just sensitive to the taste.

I am a big proponent of kräusening. It has many benefits including cleaning up diacetyl. You can read my technique in this thread:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/kraeusening-secondary-lager-fermentation.729150/#post-10301493

I usually save a small part of my starter for the kräusening but with dry yeast you just save a small amount of the dry yeast packet. I am in the process of doing it this week with a batch of Kellerbier using one Pack of Diamond lager and one of 34/70 because that was all I had.

 

[JohnDBrewer]

Just put 10gal of a Festbeir into the fermenters yesterday. Split the batch using Diamond and Mangrove Jack M-76 Bavarian Lager. Used a couple of MJ products over the last year or so and have had great results. Pitched according to manufacturers instructions (one was hydrated, the other sprinkled on top) at 4pm and by 9 both were actively bubbling.

Been on a Nova Lager run for the last 6 months, as they donated a bunch of it for our club comp gift bags/raffles. Thank you Lalbrew. Very good yeast. Never used it before. Didn't use it on the festbeir, as I had a pack of Diamond about to expire and found the M-76 in with it.

 

[Gajol]

I just wanted to share a bit of my experience with both Saflager 34/70 and Lallemand NovaLager. I've had really good results using both strains – not only at traditional low lager temperatures, but also at higher fermentation temps. They've both proven to be quite forgiving and still produce clean, crisp lagers even when things run a bit warmer.


I also pretty much always do pressure fermentation, which I think helps a lot with keeping esters in check at higher temperatures.

 

[wdavis2003]

Everyone raves about w34/70 however I feel like I need a change. I'm never quite getting what I want with it.

My next options is to save a bit of money, time and refrigeration time and do the new Lallemand Fast Lager Fermentation with Diamond Lager yeast.

I've gotten more subpar results with it than above average results with it myself. It's prone to off flavors for me. Probably my fault I'm sure

 

[BasementArtie]

I've gotten more subpar results with it than above average results with it myself. It's prone to off flavors for me. Probably my fault I'm sure

With 34/70 or Diamond?

 

[wdavis2003]

With 34/70 or Diamond?

34/70

 

[hilljack13]

So far not sure how I feel about S23. Fermentation started 3 Jun @1.055 and today I am at 1.0145 (according to my Tilt). Based on past brews this is more likely to be around 1.016. Attenuation seems to be lacking on this one. I was expecting at least the 80% min. I have until Tuesday as my initial target to end primary so we'll see. I'll plan on leaving it a few more days or another week if it at least shows slow movement.

 

[dmtaylor]

So far not sure how I feel about S23. Fermentation started 3 Jun @1.055 and today I am at 1.0145 (according to my Tilt). Based on past brews this is more likely to be around 1.016. Attenuation seems to be lacking on this one. I was expecting at least the 80% min. I have until Tuesday as my initial target to end primary so we'll see. I'll plan on leaving it a few more days or another week if it at least shows slow movement.

In my experience, S-23 averages about 76% attenuation... which is almost exactly what you are seeing. Fermentation is basically done, or maybe will fall one or two more points but that is all. It will not ferment to 1.011, that's very unlikely.

 

[hilljack13]

In my experience, S-23 averages about 76% attenuation... which is almost exactly what you are seeing. Fermentation is basically done, or maybe will fall one or two more points but that is all. It will not ferment to 1.011, that's very unlikely.

Wish Fermentis would get more accurate on what they publish. My recipe was also based off getting around 6.6%abv. I'm going to be lucky to get 5.5%.

It's beer so it will do.