When do you need to boil? Confused!

[Kiwi_Jonno]

Everywhere I read says to boil boil boil the can kits. Iv only been using hopped non-boil can kits so far, but got my first hop free can - pure malt extract. My plan was to add hops to it and make a better beer. Recipe follows...

Muntons Light Malt Extract Can 1.8kg
Brewcraft Brewblend #20 1kg
Brewcraft Goldings Finishing Hops 12g, (4 - 6.5% what ever this means...)
Saflager S-23 Dry Lager Yeast

I asked the guy in the shop, should I boil this and add the hops as boiling? He said no, you don't need to boil just mix with hot water. The hop packet said to soak "hop bag" in boiling water for 10min in 2 cups water, then add to wort just before you pitch yeast.

So I did this... even made a yeast paste with the dry yeast for 45min in 23*C water like it said. Am sure it will be an ok beer but I wanted a boiling kit??

am not sure the guy at shop was that good though, I wanted a Indian Pale Ale, and he gave me lager yeast....

EDIT... here is the Brewcraft website! ... http://www.ebrewcraft.co.nz
I think Muntons is well known though.

 

[Yooper]

Yes, that is a strange recipe indeed.

When I did extract boiling, I did a 60 minute boil. Most recipes will give you directions like this:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=27601

Since you are using ingredients that I'm unfamilair with (like that Brewblend with the sugar), I'm not able to quite figure out what you should have done with it.

do you have access to more just plain malt extract, or dry malt extract? If you could use just without any added stuff, and just hops, I could help much more.

 

[FlyingHorse]

Seems like that beer doesn't have ANY bittering hops. The "don't boil the hops, soak them for 10 minutes" approach isn't the best, but it should give you some semblance of hop flavor and aroma.

With no bittering hops, though, that's going to be a reallly sweet beer. And with a lager yeast (presumably at ale temperatures) I assume you're going to get a lot of fruity estery flavors, if not worse.

 

[Kiwi_Jonno]

Yes, that is a strange recipe indeed.

When I did extract boiling, I did a 60 minute boil. Most recipes will give you directions like this:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=27601

Since you are using ingredients that I'm unfamilair with (like that Brewblend with the sugar), I'm not able to quite figure out what you should have done with it.

do you have access to more just plain malt extract, or dry malt extract? If you could use just without any added stuff, and just hops, I could help much more.

Well I have only found malt extract in liquid form so far in cans - Muntons.

Here is what the Brewcraft Brewblend #20 1kg is ... " A lighty malted blend of brewing sugars which adds flavour to any beer kit. (glucose, dextrose and malt))".

The Muntons can was just liquid malt - no hops.

 

[Kiwi_Jonno]

Seems like that beer doesn't have ANY bittering hops. The "don't boil the hops, soak them for 10 minutes" approach isn't the best, but it should give you some semblance of hop flavor and aroma.

With no bittering hops, though, that's going to be a reallly sweet beer. And with a lager yeast (presumably at ale temperatures) I assume you're going to get a lot of fruity estery flavors, if not worse.

Oh damn, I was after a hoppy beer not a sweet beer. Will the hops I put in it not do much?

The instructions with the hops said.. after you have soaked the hops in boiling water to put the whole bag in the fermenter with the water. So they are in there now. Am assuming I take out when bottle?

Iv got the fermenter in a chilli bin with a poly lid. There are some small ice bottles in there, id guess the beers staying 18*C or less.

 

[Yooper]

I would suggest that the next time, you buy the hops and the malt extract and NO added other stuff. and then add the hops according to a hops schedule (depending on what you have) and I think you could get a decent beer. I'm not sure about what you have in New Zealand, though, so that is why I can't be more specific.

 

[Kiwi_Jonno]

I would suggest that the next time, you buy the hops and the malt extract and NO added other stuff. and then add the hops according to a hops schedule (depending on what you have) and I think you could get a decent beer. I'm not sure about what you have in New Zealand, though, so that is why I can't be more specific.

Thanks for your help. Do you know the Muntons Extract can I'm meaning though? It would be pretty expensive, but if I used 2x 1.8kg cans instead of the powder (glucose, dextrose and malt), then added hops and boiled it? The Muntons Extract can looks like golden syrup, so I don't know if its been boiled or not. The can doesn't say too much really.

Here is a link to the Muntons can I used...

http://www.haurakihomebrew.co.nz/product_info.php?cPath=83&products_id=475

EDIT... or here is a better pic ... http://www.stonehelm.co.uk/images/products/5352.jpg

 

[Kiwi_Jonno]

On a different note... is there any problem with bottled straight from primary from the spigot? I see many bottle from a bottling bucket?

 

[Kiwi_Jonno]

Anyone know...?

 

[ashbyp]

When using pre-hopped beer kits and no boil I think it's fine to bottle straight from primary via the spigot.

But when you are boiling and adding hops you get a lot more crap at the bottom of your fermenting bucket, and so it's best to then rack to a bottling bucket first before bottling...

 

[PeteOz77]

Kiwi. If you want a good India Pale Ale extract kit, buy the Cooper's IPA, and follow the directions on the tin. You should be happy with the results. If you want more Hop Kick, boil about 20gm "C" hops in 2 Litres of water for at least 20 mins instead of using 2 litres of boiling water to dissolve the Extract. I usually add around 150gm DME to the boil as well, for better hop utilisation.

 

[Kiwi_Jonno]

Kiwi. If you want a good India Pale Ale extract kit, buy the Cooper's IPA, and follow the directions on the tin. You should be happy with the results. If you want more Hop Kick, boil about 20gm "C" hops in 2 Litres of water for at least 20 mins instead of using 2 litres of boiling water to dissolve the Extract. I usually add around 150gm DME to the boil as well, for better hop utilisation.

Ok will do. By the way what are "C" hops? Cascade? Iv seen goldings and quite a few other types. Makes sense just boiling the hops in water, instead of wrecking the pre-hopped cans. Are the hops in tea bags ok to boil in the water? Though in theory If I boiled the unhopped cans and added hops, there would be more hop flavour?

EDIT... Just noticed your in Oz. You would have probably heard of the Brewcraft (lager) enhancers I was talking about earlier? Would be good to use one of these instead of straight dextrose with the Coopers/Muntons can yes?

 

[EvilTOJ]

C hops are all related to each other, pretty much anything that starts with C, like Cascade, Centennial, Chinook, etc. If you make a hop tea, put at least a little bit of malt into the boil so the hop oils isomerize.

 

[Kiwi_Jonno]

C hops are all related to each other, pretty much anything that starts with C, like Cascade, Centennial, Chinook, etc. If you make a hop tea, put at least a little bit of malt into the boil so the hop oils isomerize.

Am thinking I might as well just get an all malt can and do a full boil. It would save doing a half-pie job using hops and a prehopped can.

If I just used can liquid malt, am thinking of using 2x1.8kg Muntons Light Extract Cans i mentioned earlier, and try C-hops in the boil, then maybe the same Golding finishing hops.

Am wondering, can you do any harm if you boil a pre boiled malt extract can?? Its unhopped.

 

[EvilTOJ]

Nope, in fact boiling it will be good for it! It'll help some of the chill haze protiens to drop out of suspension.

 

[Yooper]

Exactly! You can make good beer with those items! Here's an example:

Buy two cans of the extract, and then 2 or 3 ounces of Goldings hops. Put one can of extract in 2 gallons (US gallons) of water, and bring to a boil. Start your timer for one hour. Add one ounce of the hops, and boil 1/2 hour. Add 1/2 ounce of hops when there is 30 minutes left, and then with 15 minutes left, add the second can of extract. (Take off the burner for that- it'll go right to the bottom and scorch!). Then put it back on the burner, and finish that 15 minutes. At the end, when your timer says, "0", add another 1/2 ounce of the hops and turn off the heat. Cool rapidly, and top up to 5 gallons. Pitch yeast.

 

[Kiwi_Jonno]

Exactly! You can make good beer with those items! Here's an example:

Buy two cans of the extract, and then 2 or 3 ounces of Goldings hops. Put one can of extract in 2 gallons (US gallons) of water, and bring to a boil. Start your timer for one hour. Add one ounce of the hops, and boil 1/2 hour. Add 1/2 ounce of hops when there is 30 minutes left, and then with 15 minutes left, add the second can of extract. (Take off the burner for that- it'll go right to the bottom and scorch!). Then put it back on the burner, and finish that 15 minutes. At the end, when your timer says, "0", add another 1/2 ounce of the hops and turn off the heat. Cool rapidly, and top up to 5 gallons. Pitch yeast.

Wow thanks for the recipe! Seems straight fwd enough to me.

With my last beer I only used 12g of finishing hops. My calculation makes 3oz Golding hops = 85grams? Seems like a lot! As 1gram = 1mL. Going on 1oz = 28.35g. The 12g of hops I used last time were in a "tea bag", are they the same ones you use to boil?

How come ya put the 2nd can extract in the end not together? Am thinking I use pellets instead of tea bags this time, as the finishing hops (golding 12g or 0.423 0z) are too light?

If you have a moment, here is the types of hops and their packets available to me. There could be more...

http://www.ebrewcraft.co.nz/afa.asp?idWebPage=10726&ID=30

If ya click on the photo, it shows the tea bag in a sealed packet and says 12g.
Also there is say... Hop Pellets Pacific Gem 100g (3.5oz).

I really like Pilsner Urquell (I know its a lager), and New Zealands own "Epic Pale Ale - a must try beer" (crammed full of no less then 15 hops!). So am not too worried if I over do the hop thing....

Thanks again

 

[Kiwi_Jonno]

Just doing gallon conversions...

1 US Gal = 3.79 Litres ...... so 5 US Gal = 18.97 Litres (not 23L!!!???)
1 UK Gal = 4.55 Litres .......so 5 UK Gal = 22.73 Litres

I wud'v thought US use 23L fermentation tanks too?

EDIT:

Just measured biggest pot I can find... is 6 litres total or 5 litres with room at top. It has a large lid. Total wort would need to be 23L. If there is 1x can extract in pot thats 1.8/5 litres used, and when add 2nd can near end like you suggested thats 3.6/5 litres gone.