What's your best "fix" for a beer that finished too sweet?

[Hoochin'Fool]

I've got an Imperial Stout that seems to have finished fermenting (it's been 4 weeks and a few days). Went from 1.101 down to 1.023. And it's too sweet. I've backtracked my brew-day, and somehow* I goofed on my hops, and ended up with about 40 ibu's, instead of the 70 I was aiming for.

It's only about 2.8 gallons. It's warm and flat, so bottle carbonating it should cut a little of the sweet edge off. But if this was YOUR beer, would you try to fix it?

*somehow = too embarrassing to write down here

 

[lumpher]

That fg is to be expected from an 1.101, but I know you're wanting to balance sweetness and hops. That being said: If it's still in a fermenter, you could boil up and make a hop tea to add. You can add some alpha amylase to try to bring it down some. You can add a more attenuative yeast to drop it. Just a few thoughts. Probably the best way to balance is to boil up and add the hops you missed.

 

[day_trippr]

Many brewers would kill to get a 100 point beer to finish at 23 points
I would not use enzymes but would go with the hop tea using some bittering hop like Columbus or Magnum...

Cheers!

 

[DBhomebrew]

Time will help too. I've got a 1030FG imperial that started candy sweet and has mellowed into more of a classic butterscotch sweetness. But I agree, you need some IBUs.

ETA: I don't think a more attenuative yeast will get much of a foothold pitched at over 10%ABV. Enzymes might help, but that's the nuclear option. How low might it go?

 

[mac_1103]

I wouldn't mess with enzymes or more/different yeast. What was your expected FG? My guess is that you probably aren't too far off. The hop tea added with the priming sugar is probably your best shot. You only get one crack at it since your bottle conditioning, so good luck hitting the right balance.

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

Expected FG was 1.025 (Brewer's Friend, just double-checked) using one full pack of S-04. After 3 weeks, the beer was stuck at 1.033 (I had mashed in a little higher than I meant to, so I figured that was the reason why). Decided to add a scoop of US-05 krausen from an active ferment, and that took the imperial down to 1.023 in 3 days, where it's been now for 5 days.

For making a hop tea, does this look like the right amount? Turn my 2.8 gallons into 3.0 gallons, and add about 30 ibu's... (and I think drop abv from "about 11%" down to "about 10%" which is completely fine by me)

 

[Beermeister32]

I had a mash temperature gauge that was not reading correctly, resulting in an overly sweet finish. I went the enzyme route, added some alpha analyze to the carboy. It does bring the final gravity down a bit.

 

[FloppyKnockers]

If it was my beer, I would embrace the sweet and throw some extract flavoring into it. Peanut butter, raspberry, cocoa, whatever would go good with an imperial stout. If it turns out good, then note your *somehow* and make it repeatable.

 

[odie]

with those OF and FG numbers I would not expect it to be "sweet". Maybe it's something else in the beer you are tasting?

 

[AlexKay]

Cold and carbonation will actually help quite a bit, I'm guessing. I would not faff around with more yeast or enzymes. I've never adjusted bitterness with a hop tea, but I don't see anything major that's likely to go wrong.

 

[Bobby_M]

If it's going into a keg, you'll have plenty of time to make corrections AFTER you taste it cold and carbed. If it still needs some balance, adding bourbon soaked oak chips/cubes will help. That brings tannins (similar effect as hop bitterness) and alcohol, which also cuts through sweet.

 

[mac_1103]

Cold and carbonation will actually help quite a bit

Since it's a stout and a couple of extra weeks in the primary isn't likely to do any harm, OP could try carbonating one bottle and tasting again.

 

[mac_1103]

If it's going into a keg...

OP says he's bottle conditioning. Don't know if he's set up to keg.

 

[AlexKay]

The other thing to keep in mind is that ethanol itself has some sweetness, and at 10+% ABV you're going to notice it.

 

[Jeroen79]

The best fix for sweet beer is just give it to the women, they usualy like it!

 

[Bobby_M]

You can also cut the beer with some water (preboiled to de-oxygenate). Sometimes a beer is a little too sweet AND has a thick mouthfeel.

 

[DBhomebrew]

With 77% attenuation and roughly half the intended IBUs, is the problem sweetness or lack of bitterness? Obviously they work together for balance, but which side do you attack?

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

Thanks everyone for your suggestions. I am stuck with bottling, so I have to keep things fairly simple. The beer is NOT cloyingly sweet, it's just a little weird (some of this is surely due to it only being 4 weeks old, and warm, and flat), but I for sure think it needs more bitterness.

I think I will fill 2 bottles with the beer as-is, and then add the hop-tea for the remainder. And then wait until xmas to see if anything worked out at all.

 

[day_trippr]

Uncarbonated beer lacks CO2 bite that helps balance residual sweetness.
I have to say the numbers indicate a respectable beer is at hand, perhaps all it needs now is patience

Cheers!

 

[Jeroen79]

You can also add tetra hop to increase the ibu's, many breweries do this just before bottling.

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

Since it's a stout and a couple of extra weeks in the primary isn't likely to do any harm, OP could try carbonating one bottle and tasting again.

But it's 2.8 gal, in a 5 gal plastic bucket (no gasket on lid, but lid IS fully clamped down).

 

[Miraculix]

Expected FG was 1.025 (Brewer's Friend, just double-checked) using one full pack of S-04. After 3 weeks, the beer was stuck at 1.033 (I had mashed in a little higher than I meant to, so I figured that was the reason why). Decided to add a scoop of US-05 krausen from an active ferment, and that took the imperial down to 1.023 in 3 days, where it's been now for 5 days.

For making a hop tea, does this look like the right amount? Turn my 2.8 gallons into 3.0 gallons, and add about 30 ibu's... (and I think drop abv from "about 11%" down to "about 10%" which is completely fine by me)

View attachment 827647

Perfect choice imo!

Also add about 50-100g of sugar to make sure that the yeast has something to take care of with the additional oxygen you are about to introduce!

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

Perfect choice imo!

Also add about 50-100g of sugar to make sure that the yeast has something to take care of with the additional oxygen you are about to introduce!

I was planning to add the hop-tea to the bottling bucket (along with priming sugar, and bottling yeast), that should be good enough, right?

 

[Miraculix]

I was planning to add the hop-tea to the bottling bucket (along with priming sugar, and bottling yeast), that should be good enough, right?

Sounds good to me!

 

[VikeMan]

You can also add tetra hop to increase the ibu's, many breweries do this just before bottling.

Have you seen tetra extract available in quantities practical for homebrewing in the USA (i.e. where OP lives)? AFAIK, it's unobtainium.

 

[mac_1103]

You can also add tetra hop to increase the ibu's, many breweries do this just before bottling.

Have you seen tetra extract available in quantities practical for homebrewing in the USA (i.e. where OP lives)? AFAIK, it's unobtainium.

I have no idea if this stuff is any good.

 

[pvtpublic]

You could add bugs, they would turn that sweetness into some funk and/or sourness.

 

[mac_1103]

With 77% attenuation and roughly half the intended IBUs, is the problem sweetness or lack of bitterness? Obviously they work together for balance, but which side do you attack?

If I might be so bold as to assume that these are rhetorical questions, this gets it exactly right. There's nothing wrong with the FG. The problem, admitted at the outset, is that the brew was significantly under-hopped. Attacking the remaining sugars isn't "fixing" anything, it's turning this into a different beer. That different beer might be OK or even good, but what are the chances that it will make the OP say, "Boy I sure am glad I messed up my RIS and had to turn it into this instead."? Increasing the bitterness is the fix.

 

[IslandLizard]

For making a hop tea, does this look like the right amount? Turn my 2.8 gallons into 3.0 gallons, and add about 30 ibu's...

That calculation does not seem to add up, pun intended.
You're going to dilute your hop tea, and its bitterness, by a factor 3 / (3-2.8) = 3 / 0.2 = 15!

IOW, to add 30 IBUs to 2.8 gallons by means of adding 0.2 gallon of a "bittering potion," it would need to be 15*30 = 450 IBU !

 

[mac_1103]

IOW, to add 30 IBUs to 2.8 gallons by means of adding 0.2 gallon of a "bittering potion," it would need to be 15*30 = 450 IBU !

I think the way he set up the calculation includes the correction for the total volume of the beer. What I'm not sure about is whether 100% utilization can be accomplished by just steeping (or boiling) in water.

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

That calculation does not seem to add up, pun intended.
You're going to dilute your hop tea, and its bitterness, by a factor 3 / (3-2.8) = 3 / 0.2 = 15!

IOW, to add 30 IBUs to 2.8 gallons by means of adding 0.2 gallon of a "bittering potion," it would need to be 15*30 = 450 IBU !

Am I just using the IBU calculator wrong (see comment #6 in this thread)?

 

[IslandLizard]

Am I just using the IBU calculator wrong (see comment #6 in this thread)?

No, apparently your calculation is fine.

I took a slightly different approach, calculating the IBUs using 0.4 gallons of plain water simmered down to 0.2 gallons over 30 minutes with your 1/4 oz of 16.1 AA hops. The result is similar to yours, yielding 461 IBU:

Now, I don't know if it's possible to actually make a 461 IBU bittering potion. Never tried.

The calculator uses Tinseth's IBU formulas. I'm not sure how accurate they are when used in more extreme cases such as these. At least you will add some hard-needed bitterness, perhaps even the right amount, nothing to lose.

 

[VikeMan]

Now, I don't know if it's possible to actually make a 461 IBU bittering potion. Never tried.

~110 IBUs is the cosmic speed limit.

The calculator uses Tinseth's IBU formulas. I'm not sure how accurate they are when used in more extreme cases such as these. At least you will add some hard-needed bitterness, perhaps even the right amount, nothing to lose.

Tinseth is pretty good up to 65 IBUs or so. Above that, real life utilization curves flatten out considerably.

 

[mac_1103]

Tinseth is pretty good up to 65 IBUs or so. Above that, real life utilization curves flatten out considerably.

So how should one go about estimating IBU for a quart of water with a quarter ounce of high alpha hops and 3 ounces of priming sugar?

 

[IslandLizard]

~110 IBUs is the cosmic speed limit.

Does that mean we can't create a higher IBU by boiling down 1 gallon of hop water at 110 IBU to a quart of 440 IBU?

 

[VikeMan]

Does that mean we can't create a higher IBU by boiling down 1 gallon of hop water at 110 IBU to a quart of 440 IBU?

My guess is that the isomerized alpha acids in excess of ~110 IBUs would come out of solution. I don't know how hard it would be to get those excess acids into the main batch from there.

 

[Miraculix]

~110 IBUs is the cosmic speed limit.



Tinseth is pretty good up to 65 IBUs or so. Above that, real life utilization curves flatten out considerably.

It's not. If there are no proteins in solution, the upper limit is much much higher. I've overbittered a pilsner once because I thought I'd need to use some correction for the above calculation. I used a similar water/beer ratio at that time. Did it again afterwards without the correction I made up, worked like expected.

 

[VikeMan]

So how should one go about estimating IBU for a quart of water with a quarter ounce of high alpha hops and 3 ounces of priming sugar?

Using the original Tinseth formula ...
Starting with 0.45 gallons of water, adding 0.25 oz of 16.1 AA pellet hops, and boiling for 30 minutes down to 0.25 gallons (not incl water absorbed by the hops), Tinseth says 468 IBUs.

BrewCipher's modified Tinseth says 98 IBUs for this same hop water.

I didn't include priming sugar in the above, just the "hop water."

 

[VikeMan]

It's not. If there are no proteins in solution, the upper limit is much much higher.

Sounds plausible. So what's the limit without worty compounds?

 

[tracer bullet]

only being 4 weeks old, and warm, and flat)

I just want to point out that warm and flat will have an effect - cold and carbonated will help all by itself.

I second the idea of adding chocolate, maybe graham cracker, or some other extract and going with it. Your beer is actually something some people aim for. It doesn't mean it's what you aimed for, but it is something entirely fine to have.

If you just can't take it, I like the hop tea idea, but mind the hops you use. Fuggles and Willamette are often Stout hops but not very high AA, it's hard to see them working well. Perhaps Magnum, boiled for an hour, will basically just be bitter water?