Beer overly bitter after priming

[kwhtre]

Hello guys,

this is my first post here, so let me introduce myself a bit.
I'm (obviously) a beer lover and I have been trying to master the art of homebrewing for the past two years with quite good results. Not all batches were great, but in the end no beer was thrown away.

So my setup is a 35 liter Klarstein kettle and I mainly focus on high fermentation beers. I did a few pilsners which turned out great though, but I'm mainly after IPA perfection.

Basically, in the last few batches, I have been experiencing some overly bitter flavors after the priming is done (about a week after bottling).

Example recipe that turned out too bitter and with surprisingly low aroma:

Grains: Chateau Pale Ale 2RS 5,5 kg
Mashing 70 min @66°C in 22 liters of water.

After 70 minutes I raised the temperature to 77°C then lifted the filter part of the kettle to drain the grains and did a circulation of the wort to create the grain bed. Then I sparged with 18 liters of water heated to about 77°C.
I then brought the wort to a boil for 75 minutes.

Hop additions were: @15 min: 30g of Styrian Dragon with alpha acid content according to packaging: 9%
After the boil was completed I cooled down to below 80°C and added 20g of Styrian Dragon for 20 minutes.

According to calculators this should give a bitterness of about 13 IBU (if I checked that correctly)

Then I cooled the wort down to 25°C, moved the wort to the fermenter and pitched the Safale US05 yeast without rehydration or a starter (11.5g into 30 liters of wort), the OG was 1047.
After two weeks I dry hopped with the following hops (no racking to a second fermenter):

• 120g Styrian Dragon AA: 9%
• 120g Citra AA: 12 %
• 120g Vic Secret AA: 16 %

I left the hops in for 3 days.

After these 3 days the FG was 1006 so I poured the beer into a second fermentor and added the dextrose:
After pouring (which I filter a bit to remove the hop residue but it is not a very fine filter to remove the yeast, basically a kitchen filter) I was left with 26 liters of beer to which I added 170g of dextrose dissolved in 150 ml of water to aim to about 2.3 volumes of CO2.

I left the closed fermenter for about 25 minutes, then bottled.

Tasting:

I tasted the beer before fermentation and it was, as I expected, sweet with a hint of bitterness.
Before dry hopping, the beer was no longer sweet, but also I couldn't feel much bitterness anymore (which was perfect). There was some noticeable CO2 already present in the beer.
After dry hopping, when I opened the fermenter, there was some nice aromas that filled the room. I tasted the beer and I couldn't notice any bitterness, it was only lacking more CO2, so I was happy

After the first week of priming, I tasted no aroma, but quite a lot of bitterness.
After two weeks, some aroma was present and a little less bitterness, but still too much.
After three weeks, aroma was more present in beer, with bitterness the same as before.
After 4 weeks the aroma started to diminish with no change to bitterness.


Now, I am not exactly sure why this happens. I don't think there are infection problems (but I could be wrong of course) because I tend to be quite careful to sanitize everything (using starsan). I am also using inox fermenter now (this recipe was the first) and the results are similar to the ones where I was using plastic fermenters.

I am thinking that probably the hops are too old (all of the above are older than 1 year since they were opened and I have been storing them in a freezer after I read that this is something I should do, unfortunately for a few months after opening I just stored them in a refrigerator so this is surely a factor).


So if anyone can give me some input of what I am doing wrong to produce too bitter beer with so little aroma when dry hopping quite a lot, any information would be very useful and appreciated. One more piece of information: my beers did have a lot more aroma when I first started brewing and were not as bitter. (Writing this, I am getting more and more sure that old hops have a lot to do with diminished aroma, just not sure why it would make beer bitter)

Currently I am testing my own theory (about old hops) and I just brewed a similar recipe and dry hopped with a new bag of Citra and some (not as old) Amarillo, so will see if that helps.

Thank you for reading this lengthy post and any comment/information regarding the process that you can give me.

Best regards,
kwhtre

 

[AlexKay]

That's a really interesting combination of hops! I may have to try it.

The answer to "why don't I have more hop aroma?" is almost always "oxidation." You're using a bottling bucket, you're filtering, you're bottling ... there's a lot of air getting in there. Are your beers getting brown as well? Take a picture (or a few pictures, over time) and post them.

Excess bitterness could be a bunch of things, depending also on what exactly you mean by "bitterness." I'd expect quite a bit of unpleasant hop burn after that enormous dry hop charge, and that it would get better after sitting for a week or two. But given oxygen exposure, you'll also be losing hop aroma on the timescale of weeks, so there may not be a window of good taste at all.

As far as things to try: (1) put priming sugar (dry) in your bottles and bottle directly from the fermenter, then try to cap on foam; (2) cut back on the dry hops to try to get less hop burn (a 100 g total charge should still get you plenty of aroma.)

 

[kwhtre]

Hi Alex,

thanks for the quick feedback.
Actually the beers are not turning brown, but I will take pictures of them from now on to be sure if they change color.
The other thing is, that I used the same procedure when I started brewing and aroma was very much present with less bitterness (and I used plastic fermenters then), but I did use less hops then or at least with less alpha acid content. And, the hops were not as old then...

In the new batch that I mentioned I also used less hops for dry hopping and with less alpha acids. (120g Amarillo and 120g of Citra for dry hopping, otherwise pretty much the same recipe)

Regarding oxidation, yes, I have been thinking on how to limit this, but I don't think bottling from the fermenter will work, because there is always so much hop residue, that I need to filter, I guess. I do have some CO2 cartridges, so maybe purging the second fermenter with CO2 before I filter the beer into it would help a bit ? Maybe blow some CO2 in every bottle before pouring beer in them as well ?

Thanks for the pointers, will reply when the current batch is ready.

Br,
kwhtre

 

[mac_1103]

This thread is quite long, but has plenty of ideas for bottling IPAs to keep them fresh.

I don't think bottling from the fermenter will work, because there is always so much hop residue, that I need to filter

Just let it all settle to the bottom before you bottle and rack from above it. Better yet, put a spigot on your FV (a couple of inches above the typical level of the gunk).

I do have some CO2 cartridges, so maybe purging the second fermenter with CO2 before I filter the beer into it would help a bit ?

That could help in theory, but not if you're pouring your beer from one fermenter to the other through a filter. A purged vessel won't stay purged once you open it.

Maybe blow some CO2 in every bottle before pouring beer in them as well ?

Purging the headspace after filling the bottles (and/or capping on foam) does much more good than purging the bottles before filling.

 

[wsmith1625]

Regarding oxidation, yes, I have been thinking on how to limit this, but I don't think bottling from the fermenter will work, because there is always so much hop residue, that I need to filter, I guess.

If you want clearer beer, I suggest adding 1/2 a whirfloc tablet to the last 15 minutes of your boil. To reduce oxygen exposure, skip the secondary fermenter. "Pouring" from the primary into a secondary fermenter will introduce a LOT of oxygen. Just leave your beer in the primary fermenter for at least 2 weeks and your beer should be pretty clear. Be careful when transferring to the bottling bucket not to disturb the yeast cake. This cannot be achieved by pouring. You should siphon the clear beer from the fermenter into your the bucket. Siphoning is done with a racking cane or auto siphon. If this doesn't sound appealing, add a spigot to your fermenter and do a gravity transfer to your bottling bucket. With either of there transfer methods, the bottling bucket should have the dextrose added first and then fill the bucket from the bottom up, being careful not to splash and introduce oxygen.

 

[kwhtre]

Thanks everyone for the responses, but I probably didn't use correct words (sorry, not a native speaker) when I said I "pour" the beer from the first fermentation vessel. The fermenter actually already has a spigot (the plastic fermenter before had it and now the inox fermenter has it as well, I'm using this one: Gärkeller Pro fermentacijski kotel)

When I move (probably a better word then pour) the beer from the first fermenter to a second fermenter I attach a plastic tube to the spigot and then the beer flows down to the second fermenter. After I add the dextrose (I'll change the procedure to put the dextrose first, then move the beer) I attach a beer bottle filling stick on the spigot of the second fermenter (Bottle Filling Stick - Brewing at Home) and fill the bottles.

I never added dextrose to the fermenter before the beer, because I never know in advance how much beer there will be and how much junk will be left. Didn't want to overdo with the dextrose, because I didn't want to create those CO2 bombs I read about.

In any case, I see that oxidation is the most probable cause of my problems.

I guess I could just put the dextrose in the bottles first, then add the beer from the first vessel directly to the bottles and cap them immediately, like Alex already advised.

Thanks again guys for the useful info.

Br,
kwhtre

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

This thread is quite long, but has plenty of ideas for bottling IPAs to keep them fresh.

@kwhtre : in reply #383 of the thread that @mac_1103 mentions, you need to watch the segment on O2 and packaging beer in bottles.

While the segment focuses on bottling from kegs (which makes "cap on foam" easier), ...

... the segment also helps define what problem(s) need to be solved to bottle hoppy/hazy styles.

People report that using PET bottles and eliminating head space is effective for them.

Also, storing beer cold is known to slow down the processes that cause oxidation.

 

[mac_1103]

When I move (probably a better word then pour) the beer from the first fermenter to a second fermenter I attach a plastic tube to the spigot and then the beer flows down to the second fermenter.

Can you describe your filter in a little more detail? Is it just a strainer on top of the bottling bucket? Might be the most of the problem right there.

That's a pretty fancy looking conical fermenter you've got there. Seems like there should be plenty of room for the hops and any other solids to settle above below the valve if you wait long enough and/or cold crash before bottling.

 

[hotbeer]

Are you maybe confusing astringent taste with bitter taste?

 

[kwhtre]

Can you describe your filter in a little more detail? Is it just a strainer on top of the bottling bucket? Might be the most of the problem right there.

That's a pretty fancy looking conical fermenter you've got there. Seems like there should be plenty of room for the hops and any other solids to settle above the valve if you wait long enough and/or cold crash before bottling.

Yeah, it's like a kitchen strainer. I put the hose from the fermentor on it and hold it at the bottom of the fermenter then lift it slowly as the beer level increases. I try to prevent splashing as much as I can, but the beer is very much exposed here yes. Regarding cold crashing, is there any other way to cold crash if you don't have a big enough refrigerator to place the fermenter in ? I do have a basement that is a few degrees C cooler (it's about 23-25 in the room where I ferment and about 18-20 in the basement), but I suppose that is still too high of a temperature to do cold crashing ?

Are you maybe confusing astringent taste with bitter taste?

Hm.. I don't know, could be, although I don't really sense any dryness, just bitterness at the back of the tongue and it prevails at the very end of tasting. You are probably thinking that I have a lot of tannins in the beer. But wouldn't that show before priming ? I'm quite careful to filter out the grains before starting the boil.

 

[mac_1103]

Yeah, it's like a kitchen strainer. I put the hose from the fermentor on it and hold it at the bottom of the fermenter then lift it slowly as the beer level increases. I try to prevent splashing as much as I can, but the beer is very much exposed here yes

That sounds like a giant PITA as well as a good way to oxidize your beer.

Regarding cold crashing, is there any other way to cold crash if you don't have a big enough refrigerator to place the fermenter in ?

That's going to make things tough unless you invest in a chiller. If I were you I would just wait another couple of weeks for the beer to clear, skip the filter and bottle straight from the fermenter. The potential problem with that would be leaving the dry hops in too long.