What's the bleach v star san argument?
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the_Roqk
Well-Known Member
Star San is bought and sold at your LHBS. It works great as a non rinsable sanitizer. Great to use on everything in your brewing arsenal.
Bleach is a great sanitizer too. Bought and sold at your local grocery store or wally world. Bleach has to be rinsed thoroughly. IT SHOULD NOT BE USED ON STAINLESS STEEL (that's my opinion). Over time bleach will pit and rust (oxidize) stainless steel. Use it to sanitize carboys and other non metal parts. I use Bar Keepers Friend to clean my stainless it is made of oxalic acid and is great to clean stainless.
Oxy clean (unscented) is great to remove tough stains and works great to clean cruddy carboys.
Bleach is a great sanitizer too. Bought and sold at your local grocery store or wally world. Bleach has to be rinsed thoroughly. IT SHOULD NOT BE USED ON STAINLESS STEEL (that's my opinion). Over time bleach will pit and rust (oxidize) stainless steel. Use it to sanitize carboys and other non metal parts. I use Bar Keepers Friend to clean my stainless it is made of oxalic acid and is great to clean stainless.
Oxy clean (unscented) is great to remove tough stains and works great to clean cruddy carboys.
Edcculus
Well-Known Member
Bleach isnt a bad sanitizer. You should rinse it though. Starsan on the other hand is a no rinse sanitizer. That means that if diluted properly, you can rack beer/wort directly onto the foam or leftover residue. Bleach also smells, while Starsan does not.
Starsan cannot be found at the grocery store (big drawback). If diluted with distilled water, it can be stored almost indefinately and decanted into spray bottles for easy sanitation. Bleach must be mixed every time you need to sanitize something.
Starsan cannot be found at the grocery store (big drawback). If diluted with distilled water, it can be stored almost indefinately and decanted into spray bottles for easy sanitation. Bleach must be mixed every time you need to sanitize something.
It also needs about 20 minutes contact time to sanitize with bleach, while starsan only needs about 2 minutes.
-a.
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You'll find plenty of info on sanitizers here, including podcasts about starsan, bleach AND iodophor...
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/sanitizer-question-54932/?highlight=sanitizer+question
There are two main issues with bleech, the need to rinse it thoroughly, which could then negate the sanitizing effect of it...if you are rinsing with un sanitized tap water, than you sanitized for naught.
And, secondly the risk of producing clorophenols in your beer. Chlorphenols are a chemical reaction between grain (wort), the plastic in our gear, the chlorine already present in most water, and any bleach used for sanitization...in certain situations it leads to an ambesol, or bandaid off flavor in the beer, which is hard to get rid of in certain situations.....It is cumulative, meaning the more chlorine in your system, the greater the risk....
That's why Iodophor (iodine based) or starsan are the too most recomended santizers for brewing.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/sanitizer-question-54932/?highlight=sanitizer+question
There are two main issues with bleech, the need to rinse it thoroughly, which could then negate the sanitizing effect of it...if you are rinsing with un sanitized tap water, than you sanitized for naught.
And, secondly the risk of producing clorophenols in your beer. Chlorphenols are a chemical reaction between grain (wort), the plastic in our gear, the chlorine already present in most water, and any bleach used for sanitization...in certain situations it leads to an ambesol, or bandaid off flavor in the beer, which is hard to get rid of in certain situations.....It is cumulative, meaning the more chlorine in your system, the greater the risk....
That's why Iodophor (iodine based) or starsan are the too most recomended santizers for brewing.
bjzelectric
Well-Known Member
+1 on the Barkeepers friend! that stuff works wonders
That is not a sanitizer, it is a cleanser.
Remember, clean forst, sanitize second.
Donner
Well-Known Member
i used to use bleach, but the risk of not getting everything completely clean made me nervous. I know brewers who've used it for years without a problem, but i really was drawn to ability to put starsan in a spray bottle and work quickly. Having a no-rinse product like starsan is very nice and very easy to use and you save water because you don't have to rinse, and rinse again, and maybe a third time like you do with bleach.
Much like everything else in brewing, ask 10 brewers and get 12 answers.
Much like everything else in brewing, ask 10 brewers and get 12 answers.
double_e5
Well-Known Member
I didn't know there was an argument. Now iodophor might be another story....
jacketsfans
Well-Known Member
In my mind, StarSan is the best sanitizer, hands-down, no contest. Once you learn to not fear the foam, the world is your oyster. Except for availability, I don't know why anyone would use anything else. I'm only 2/3 of the way through my first bottle and I started brewing four months ago! And I'd be willing to bet there are those who've made theirs last even longer.
brewt00l
Well-Known Member
Short version: Bleach is easy to misuse/use incorrectly where the other no-rinse sanitizers less so.
That's one of things that appeals most about bleach me thinks...your LHBS should carry 5 star products. If not, most all the online suppliers do.
Diablo
Well-Known Member
I thought I read on a thread here that you could make a no-rinse sanitiser using bleach, vinegar and water ?
Edcculus
Well-Known Member
Its still has to be rinsed. Vinegar (acid) increases the sanitizing power of bleach. BE CAREFUL!!! Add a small amount of vinegar to already diluted (at the proper amount) bleach. Never add an acid to bleach or vice versa. You run the risk of creating chlorine gas.
Diablo
Well-Known Member
Just buy some Star San online. It will last forever. You can mix with distilled water and put in a spray bottle and use for nearly everything. You can keep a small bucket of it and use it for months. Even a small bottle will last a very long time if you mix it right and store it right.
Be Careful
If you or anyone lurking are considering this, go to my first post in this thread, and click on the link to the sanitizer Question thread, and look at where I linked to the Basic Brewing podcast "Sanitizing with bleach or starsan," with Chuck Talley of 5-star chemicals (the inventor of starsan) he goes into detail about sanitizing with bleach and especially goes into great detail of mixing bleach and vinegar.
Follow his directions carefully.
Don't just slop together everything, and don't think "well if he recommends x amount, if I use more I will make a better sanitizer."
Don't do that, this is a really dangerous chemical reaction!
To me it's just not worth it to save a few bucks....It's too much of a hassle, it could be potentially dangerous, and I also think the risk of chlorephenols is high since we use so much plastic as our gear, and even spring water may contain chlorine, so to me eliminating excess chlorine in my brewery is a good thing.
Plus, you can re-use your starsan and Iodophor, and you don't have to mix up 5 gallons to santize everything, a gallon, or a spray bottle full, will last you forever if you follow my suggestions, in the "sanitizer question" thread.
There's a ton of good tips in there.
And please, if you have ANY MORE questions, look at that thread first, more than likely I answered it already there, or provided links to it where the answers can be found, it's a pretty detailed thread that I put a lot of work into....There's no need to re-invent the wheel....
That podcast is the best resource on the topic of sanitizers for brewing I have run across. A must-listen IMO. He points out bleach is NOT an effective sanitizer without the vinegar, since getting the pH down below 5 is a requirement for sodium hypochlorite to kill all the bugs.
Yes you can and Revvy explained that well in his post. But, my biggest concern with this is that you are using a relatively small amount of bleach. That is great because it puts the chlorine levels bellow taste (and danger) thresholds making it no rinse, but at the same time it does not give you the "breathing room" to know you have enough chlorine to kill. Commercial bleach products very greatly in their chlorine contents and the stabilizers added to make sure this chlorine stays in solutions as it tends to evolve fairly fast at room temp. If you buy a bottle of Bleach from the store and use it immediately per the instructions in that podcast, you can make a good no-rinse sanitizer. But is this still the case in 2 weeks? A month? And, as far as I know, there is no easy way to tell if there is still sufficient chlorine in the solution to achieve the kill rates you need.
With Star San there is one criterion for ability to kill: pH <3.5 and that can be checked with simple pH strips. And, if made and used properly, the Star San solution will last forever. I use 1 8oz. bottle per year. I think if I was using bleach, and tending to buy new bottle when I felt nervous, I would spend more in bleach than Star San.
Edcculus
Well-Known Member
I forgot to add that you can use Starsan as a general kitchen sanitizer too. I spray down my counters and sink after cutting up a chicken or other raw meat. I also use it to sanitize my plastic raw meat cutting board, and the fridge drawer for raw meat. I now hardly ever buy bleach since I can keep Starsan around much longer in a spray bottle. Dual purpose sanitizer saves space under the sink and money.
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