What is going on with my IPAs?

[BeerFst]

AAARghhh!!

Forget about suckback, you've introduced enough oxygen in the fermenter at that point to ruin any beer.

Before i ever knew about fermenting in kegs, or closed transfers or anything like that, this was my exact SOP and i can certainly attest i did not have IPAs coming out like brown ales like above

 

[moreb33rplz]

I'm in the 'that isn't oxidation' camp. I've brewed many beers basically not paying attention to oxygen at all and never had anything remotely close to that.

THat said I have no idea what could cause a beer to look like that

 

[Reneauj62]

Anytime I make a beer that is horrible and completely undrinkable... Unbeknown to the neighbors, I call it an IPA and they think is is wonderful free beer...

 

[eric19312]

Wow that’s scary.

I agree the beer looks oxidized but doesn't seem like oxidation alone would make this beer look like this. This looks like a badly oxidized NEIPA but neither the recipe nor the process is NEIPA.

All barley malt grist - no adjuncts like oats or wheat
Only 4oz dry hops in a 10 gallon batch
British ale yeast supposed to "drop fast and clear"
Dry hops not added until 2 weeks after yeast was pitched

This is a west coast IPA recipe and I made lots of those before I got the oxidation bug. I'm sure I could make them even better now but they didn't look like that or taste like OP reports.

So what is left?
Mislabeled ingredients?
Contamination?
Attack by giant squid?

 

[moreb33rplz]

It looks like my wort does in the fermenter during the process of active fermentation - all sludgy and opaque

 

[MrEggSandwich]

I know everybody went straight to O2, but doesn’t that look like yeast still in suspension? I am not familiar with Omega yeast. Have you used that yeast before? Same yeast for both IPAs? I’m guessing its not the same strain you used for your kolsch? Some British yeasts are “powdery” and are notorious for remaining in suspension. Low flocculator? Did you make a starter? Bad yeast? Or is it possible the starter got contaminated? Did you try any kind of fining, like gelatin or Isinglass like the British cask brewers do? Or cold crash to drop yeast? Trying to cover the obvious.

Large late hop additions also cause haze. The one recipe says 5 oz at knockout, but the other one only says 2 oz. With that much late hop whirlpool and dry hop you are not going to have a crystal clear beer, but I agree it shouldn’t look like that. I might try again with a known cleaner American yeast since you’re loaded up on American hops.

Yup...Same yeast for last two IPAs..Omega British Ale 1 (Similiar to White Labs 007)...Med/High Floc.

 

[MrEggSandwich]

I hope the OP doesn't take this the wrong way but that has to be the worst looking beer I have seen. Oxidation sucks!

How are your hops stored? Freezer? Vac Sealed?

I use an All Rounder and ferment under pressure. For NEIPA's I usually dry hop 24-30 hrs after fermentation has started. That's the only time I open the fermenter. I purge my kegs and do a star san flush. When I brew Pales or IPA's I usually dry hop at the 48 hr mark of fermentation and then purge the fermenter. I do not always dry hop.

As for the boil, I usually add in hops, mostly at FWH or at the 30 min mark then again towards flameout and then a whirlpool. All my hops go in a bag.

Dry hoping I just throw into the fermenter. When I use my SS Brewtech bucket fermenter, dry hops are added in a bag.

I hope you figure it out. Good Luck.

No worries! I was horrified as well...That's why this latest IPA is so concerning. Muddled mess. My hops are vacuum sealed in freezer, re-sealed after opening.

 

[MrEggSandwich]

AAARghhh!!

Forget about suckback, you've introduced enough oxygen in the fermenter at that point to ruin any beer.

Well how would one dry hop in a SS Brewtech Brew Bucket? You have to take off lid.

 

[MrEggSandwich]

Wow that’s scary.

I agree the beer looks oxidized but doesn't seem like oxidation alone would make this beer look like this. This looks like a badly oxidized NEIPA but neither the recipe nor the process is NEIPA.

All barley malt grist - no adjuncts like oats or wheat
Only 4oz dry hops in a 10 gallon batch
British ale yeast supposed to "drop fast and clear"
Dry hops not added until 2 weeks after yeast was pitched

This is a west coast IPA recipe and I made lots of those before I got the oxidation bug. I'm sure I could make them even better now but they didn't look like that or taste like OP reports.

So what is left?
Mislabeled ingredients?
Contamination?
Attack by giant squid?

Here's a photo just taken of the recent IPA...It's been in keg 2-3 weeks now. As you can see, has that same brownish tint, hop flavor is bitter, muddled. No hint of the citra amarillo....Mess

 

[MrEggSandwich]

Before i ever knew about fermenting in kegs, or closed transfers or anything like that, this was my exact SOP and i can certainly attest i did not have IPAs coming out like brown ales like above

Yeah..You and I are aligned here. Not every homewbrewer is having a 100% oxygen free experience. Not every homebrew does (or can) do CPTs...That's just the latest thing...We all started out brewing in buckets, using siphons. ****, we would transfer into secondary, then into bottling bucket.....Never had anything like this.

 

[Moose_MI]

Here's a photo just taken of the recent IPA...It's been in keg 2-3 weeks now. As you can see, has that same brownish tint, hop flavor is bitter, muddled. No hint of the citra amarillo....Mess

I dont get that at all...recipe says srm 6..that looks like 30ish
Someone asked about maybe grabbing the wrong grain somewhere...maybe?
it looks better now then what it did in those first pics
I feel your pain brother ...

 

[BeerFst]

Here's a photo just taken of the recent IPA...It's been in keg 2-3 weeks now. As you can see, has that same brownish tint, hop flavor is bitter, muddled. No hint of the citra amarillo....Mess

The lack of aroma or flavor and the extra bitterness is definitely oxidation, and maybe the brown is too but it’s extreme. The cloudiness was just junk in suspension that has clearly settled now.

if you fill your brew bucket with water and transfer just that, so you see any bubbles in the line? It should be a solid stream without any bubbles.

 

[Dinadan]

Yup...Same yeast for last two IPAs..Omega British Ale 1 (Similiar to White Labs 007)...Med/High Floc.

Just a thought here, but have you used that batch of yeast for any brew that came out good? Are you certain the yeast were still viable? What you have is kind of like what I might expect if I forgot to add yeast and some wild stuff got into the wort.

 

[Vale71]

Well how would one dry hop in a SS Brewtech Brew Bucket? You have to take off lid.

"Having to" won't make the oxygen go away.
You either don't do it or you do it anyway and live with the consequences.

 

[MrEggSandwich]

Just a thought here, but have you used that batch of yeast for any brew that came out good? Are you certain the yeast were still viable? What you have is kind of like what I might expect if I forgot to add yeast and some wild stuff got into the wort.

Both IPAs were made with same yeast strain from same LHBS. Viability on last one was like 30%, did starters each time. I'm thinking this may be a yeast issue. I'm not buying the "You opened the lid to your fermenter, and now you've ruined everything" oxidation thing.

 

[MrEggSandwich]

"Having to" won't make the oxygen go away.
You either don't do it or you do it anyway and live with the consequences.

I hear you, but one would have to open lid to dry hop, right? Not everyone has a 100% oxygen free process. If that was the case, everyone's beer would be oxidized.

 

[Vale71]

I hear you, but one would have to open lid to dry hop, right? Not everyone has a 100% oxygen free process. If that was the case, everyone's beer would be oxidized.

Exactly.

 

[schmurf]

I hear you, but one would have to open lid to dry hop, right? Not everyone has a 100% oxygen free process. If that was the case, everyone's beer would be oxidized.

I have no statistics to back it up, but I would be surprised if more than 1% of the homebrewers have oxygen free process. The vast majority do as you do. It will be exposed to oxygen for sure, but will it be oxidised to the extent it's noticeable in shorter term? My guess is it's usually not. But that's just my own experience.

 

[eric19312]

5.34ph. My bad.

pump through plate chiller into BrewBucket, aerate.

chest Freezer, temp control, blow off

ferment two weeks. Open lid, sample, add hops in bags. Dry hop 5-7 days.

drop temp for a day or so (don’t do siper cold crash.

Could be suck back. I pull BrewBucket out (with blow off now flapping around)

purge keg with co2 push sanitizer though.

typically then put Brewbucket up on table and drain via tube into keg (lid now off)

close up keg, attach co2, purge.

OK im still not convinced your issue is purely oxidation but you are doing some things that could be improved and maybe reduce the oxidation. Part of my thinking is to try to move the beer along a little faster to the keg where it will be safe, and the other part is to reduce O2 exposure along the way.

• Consider swapping the blow off tube for an airlock and stopper as fermentation starts to slow down. Probably day 4 at the latest.
• Dryhop sooner. 2 weeks seems too long to wait. Healthy ale fermenations on reasonable OG beers are going to be done fermenting sugars in a week or less.
• Flush headspace with CO2 when you dry hop. Just close the lid and put a CO2 hose or beergun in through the 17mm hole and flow some gas for a little while.
• Consider time with the dry hops before you cold crash, 3 days is probably fine.
• Get a suck back solution like the brewhardware.com Cold Crash Guardian this will help both when you cold crash and when you lift the fermentor out of the freezer
• Now that you have a suck back solution do a decent cold crash. This will let you get clear beer into your keg faster where it will be safe.
• Fill the keg through the beer out post, venting pressure through the gas in post. Best with a hose on the gas in quick connect into a jar of water to create airlock.

Ideally follow the instructions on the SS brewtech website and rig your bucket for closed transfers. If you do that I'd also stop using the hop bags and just add the dry hops through the TC port you are adding. But do still flush the headspace.

 

[sibelman]

The rise of NEIPA is not the beginning of oxygen concerns, but something does seem to have made us oxygen-obsessed.

I've made many clear-AF IPAs with only very basic anti-oxygen precautions -- I'm sure I'm not alone. Embracing closed transfers has not made my beers clearer. In this thread, I see no convincing explanation for MrEggSandwich's muddy-lookin' IPA, but tremendous focus on oxygen-related process improvement.

In the absence of a convincing theory, one must gather more data: try changing yeast? what about how the grain is milled? is there something odd with this batch of hops (esp. the dry hops)? I just don't believe that MrEggSandwich's well-established process is suddenly causing this dramatic new symptom.

 

[Stonehenge360]

Agree with @sibelman. We all know oxygen is bad, but when I started I was sloshing Neipas all over the bottling process and never had anything close to this.

My vote is a yeast issue. Toss that strain, buy new, and try again.

Good luck!

 

[MrEggSandwich]

Thanks all! I'm going with yeast issue on this one. Considering both IPAs were made with same strain, same manufacturer, same LHBS, and the latest was old yeast. Lots of delays due to COVID. In between batches was a Kolsch that I think hit the mark, that's not a style in which I could hide anything, and I think it's solid. I don't buy into the oxidation paranoia, I understand the potential issue, but we all didn't always CPT and run 100% oxygen free environment. It's a hobby based on bucket fermentation and siphon transfers. Something aint right with these two.

Will look at process, use my "Cold Crash Guardian", move to CPT, new yeast, new hops....Switch manufacturers.

Thanks again.

 

[brew703]

I try not to introduce oxygen but I'm not anal about it.
Something is happening causing your issues.
I have a SS BT bucket and never had any oxidation issues. I always opened the lid to dry hop but I did it towards the end of fermentation so the yeast can clean up any entrance of oxygen.
If you cold crash use a mylar balloons filed w co2 so there is no suck back.
Here's a photo of a PA I just kegged on Thursday. Fermented in an all rounder.
Maybe you should look into one. They are inexpensive at $50 and you can ferment under pressure up to 35 psi.

 

[brew703]

Never used the yeast you used. Try a pack of US05 or S04. I normally used SD Super or OYL052 or Hornindal Kveik.
I find it hard to believe yeast is the sole issue.

 

[jddevinn]

If you pour a glass cover it with saran wrap and leave it out in a day does a lot come out of suspension? Anything on top?

 

[OleBrewing]

I am a simple man. Your recipes are way to complicated for me.
3 lines of malt 2lines of hops for bittering addtl for steeping 1line for yeast.
I have dry hopped with home grown hops and haven't seen oxidation.