What is "Alt" beer

[Noob_Brewer]

so just kegged this one today, took the hydro sample a week ago at 1.013 and that’s where it is today so 5.0%. Had it sitting at 38 in the FV the last three days to drop as much yeast as I could prior to kegging. IMO Düsseldorf yeast is great, fast fermenter but takes a lot to flock it out. Now that it’s in the keg, I’ll let it sit for another 3 weeks before tapping.
EDIT: the bitterness that was more prominent last week for the hydro has already faded and the maltiness is really nice now. Can't wait to see how this continues to condition.

 

[grampamark]

Looks good!

 

[jdauria]

What is Altbier? A. When made my a guy in my club who's a pro brewer too makes a batch...it's the freakin' nectars of the gods that's what it is! My batches never come close to being as perfect as his are.

 

[Kold Brygg]

I'm brewing an Altbier tomorrow. The grist looks very much like @wepeeler. I suspect we both have had a good look at Mean Brews YouTube video .

https://recipe.brewfather.app/eUFsLHlHXnxvGK22G8t14Jbg5uLs1d


My grist

Hop schedule

Waterprofile

Yeast Lallemand Köln not 100% correct, but I have a slurry so I suppose this is close enough.

Mashing at 152, but Köln should ensure high attenuation.
OG 1.051
FG 1.011

IBU 45 slightly high, but my system tend to give less from the hops, so I aim usually high.

No Spalt or Tettnang, but German Saaz which are related to Tettnang so this should work I suppose.

If anyone want to have a look at the Brewfather recipe.
https://share.brewfather.app/ebTyFxLQK7FetW
Any thoughts? Still a bit unsure about the hop schedule and water profile.

 

[wepeeler]

I did have a look at the Mean Brews vid! I've brewed it a few times with my own grist, then tried his. It was very good, but still needs tweaks IMO. I would dry it out more and lower the amount of darker malts, even if only by 4oz each. There is plenty of malt backbone, so would mash low. 148 should be fine. Any noble hops should work. I prefer Tettnang, but I imagine Saaz would be perfectly fine.

 

[Kold Brygg]

I did have a look at the Mean Brews vid! I've brewed it a few times with my own grist, then tried his. It was very good, but still needs tweaks IMO. I would dry it out more and lower the amount of darker malts, even if only by 4oz each. There is plenty of malt backbone, so would mash low. 148 should be fine. Any noble hops should work. I prefer Tettnang, but I imagine Saaz would be perfectly fine.

Thanks for sharing your experience. The grist is set, as it's already crushed.

If I'll dry it more out, I suppose I would lower IBU a bit. Down to 35?

 

[rmr9]

I’m working on a recipe for an alt - it’s hard to know where to start! I’m thinking of starting with the BCS cowboy alt, has anyone had good experience with this recipe?

 

[Franktalk]

Yes, it's a good place to start. It hits all the right notes for a Dusseldorf altbier.

 

[wepeeler]

Personally I think 45 IBU is fine. Even if you mash lower.

My notes for a revamped recipe I'm brewing soon:

1 Mash lower = 148
2 Malt backbone is there. Go a touch lighter on color. Back off on darker malts
3 Bitterness is ok. Definitely not overly bitter
4 60 min Magnum, 20 min noble, 5 min noble. 42 IBUs

 

[Kold Brygg]

Personally I think 45 IBU is fine. Even if you mash lower.

My notes for a revamped recipe I'm brewing soon:

1 Mash lower = 148
2 Malt backbone is there. Go a touch lighter on color. Back off on darker malts
3 Bitterness is ok. Definitely not overly bitter
4 60 min Magnum, 20 min noble, 5 min noble. 42 IBUs

It actually looks like my grist is more like your revamped recipe than your original. And I suspect my yeast is more attenuative.

1. Lallemand Köln have better attenuation than WLP036. I got 81% on a Kölsch mashed 30min at 146 and 30 min at 158. 152 at my recipe should take me to FG 1.011, I'm not so sure I'd like to go drier.
2. I've noticed yours are 17 SRM mine is 13, so it's actually a tad lighter than yours. You have Carafa S3 I have S2, where you have Caramunich 2 and 3, I'm using Best Caramel Munich 1 which is a bit lighter than Caramunich 1 and dark Munich which is much lighter than any Caramunich.
3. You have a slightly higher OG than me, with IBU 45 I'm on 0.88 at BU/GU you are at 0.76 with 42 IBU.
4. If I move the last noble to 5 min I'd lower the IBU a bit, and if I go a bit lower the BU/GU it seems a bit more balanced. Alternatively I could throw a bit more pilsner malt into the grist, but I think around 5% is strong enough.

 

[wepeeler]

It actually looks like my grist is more like your revamped recipe than your original. And I suspect my yeast is more attenuative.

1. Lallemand Köln have better attenuation than WLP036. I got 81% on a Kölsch mashed 30min at 146 and 30 min at 158. 152 at my recipe should take me to FG 1.011, I'm not so sure I'd like to go drier.
2. I've noticed yours are 17 SRM mine is 13, so it's actually a tad lighter than yours. You have Carafa S3 I have S2, where you have Caramunich 2 and 3, I'm using Best Caramel Munich 1 which is a bit lighter than Caramunich 1 and dark Munich which is much lighter than any Caramunich.
3. You have a slightly higher OG than me, with IBU 45 I'm on 0.88 at BU/GU you are at 0.76 with 42 IBU.
4. If I move the last noble to 5 min I'd lower the IBU a bit, and if I go a bit lower the BU/GU it seems a bit more balanced. Alternatively I could throw a bit more pilsner malt into the grist, but I think around 5% is strong enough.

Looks good to me. I suspect we would have very similar beers, side by side. Although, I'd be very interested to taste Lallmand Koln.

I'm going to brew this again with the modified grist and WLP036. I really like what WLP036 brought to the table. I think I'm on the right track for the Altbier, just need minor tweaking from here on out.

I would really stress a lower FG than you think. I think 1.011 should be great. I would love to get that low. Good luck!

 

[Noob_Brewer]

So been trying to be patient with drinking this because it’s just so easy and tasty. Just a couple of days short of 5weeks in the keg. It clarified quite well given outside of whirlfloc at last 5minutes of boil I didn’t use any finings. Already thinking of next one. Like the color of this too although pics are hard to capture clarity and color that I see with naked eye.

 

[wepeeler]

So been trying to be patient with drinking this because it’s just so easy and tasty. Just a couple of days short of 5weeks in the keg. It clarified quite well given outside of whirlfloc at last 5minutes of boil I didn’t use any finings. Already thinking of next one. Like the color of this too although pics are hard to capture clarity and color that I see with naked eye.

View attachment 756586View attachment 756587View attachment 756588

Looks great! The Alt I currently have kegged is a bit darker than yours, but it's brilliantly clear. Been in keg since beginning of November. I have another Alt currently fermenting. It's at FG now, but I'm going to give it another week. I used less of the darker malts this time around and mashed lower to try to dry it out a bit. Can't wait!

 

[grampamark]

So been trying to be patient with drinking this because it’s just so easy and tasty. Just a couple of days short of 5weeks in the keg. It clarified quite well given outside of whirlfloc at last 5minutes of boil I didn’t use any finings. Already thinking of next one. Like the color of this too although pics are hard to capture clarity and color that I see with naked eye.

View attachment 756586View attachment 756587View attachment 756588

Good looking Alt. I’m brewing one right now.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

Looks great! The Alt I currently have kegged is a bit darker than yours, but it's brilliantly clear. Been in keg since beginning of November. I have another Alt currently fermenting. It's at FG now, but I'm going to give it another week. I used less of the darker malts this time around and mashed lower to try to dry it out a bit. Can't wait!

FWIW, My original recipe used Weyermann Carafa special III and the estimated SRM through beer smith was ~15.5, but I switched it out at the last minute with Weyermann Chocolate wheat and the estimated SRM was ~14.6. really didn't realize the differences in color between these malts until I brewed this beer. I switched not only due to the lower dark color but also in hopes that the wheat helped in the foam. Since this is my first Alt, I have no comparison though.

 

[Kold Brygg]

Carbonation test, bottled 2 weeks ago, still a bit fresh. malted. Bread and slight caramel. Some floral hops taste and balancing bitterness. This is very promising.

 

[rmr9]

Just wrapped a brewday on an altbier.

8lbs barke pils
3lbs barke munich
0.5lbs caramunich III
3oz carafa II special.

0.8oz magnum @60
0.5oz tettnang @15

Grew up a 2L starter of Kaiser cold crashed and decanted. Waiting for some airlock activity! Guess I’m used to British yeasts that take off the minute they hit the wort.

 

[Miraculix]

Why caramunich? I doubt any Altbier here has crystal in it.

 

[wepeeler]

Just wrapped a brewday on an altbier.

8lbs barke pils
3lbs barke munich
0.5lbs caramunich III
3oz carafa II special.

0.8oz magnum @60
0.5oz tettnang @15

Grew up a 2L starter of Kaiser cold crashed and decanted. Waiting for some airlock activity! Guess I’m used to British yeasts that take off the minute they hit the wort.

Gonna be a great Alt. Here's mine with a very similar grain bill.

Why caramunich? I doubt any Altbier here has crystal in it.

Toastiness and body. I find it's a great addition to an Alt. Doesn't overpower if balanced with noble hops. I used both Caramunich 2 and 3. Less than 10oz total between the 2.

 

[Miraculix]

Gonna be a great Alt. Here's mine with a very similar grain bill.View attachment 761127

Toastiness and body. I find it's a great addition to an Alt. Doesn't overpower if balanced with noble hops. I used both Caramunich 2 and 3. Less than 10oz total between the 2.

It's been some time since I had an Altbier, but I don't remember it to have any remarkable body. It was more like a well attenuated Pilsener body-wise, if I remember it correctly. Maybe it's the American view, throwing in more body and than balancing it with more hops.

 

[wepeeler]

It's been some time since I had an Altbier, but I don't remember it to have any remarkable body. It was more like a well attenuated Pilsener body-wise, if I remember it correctly. Maybe it's the American view, throwing in more body and than balancing it with more hops.

We Americans tend to overdo things every once in awhile lol.

The Alt pictured above was my take on Long Trail Ale, which they classify as an Altbier. It's definitely sweeter than the tried and true German Alts, but it's really a lovely beer. I had mine side by side last night and mine was drier and crisper. Love the malt backbone and Tettnang hops.

 

[balrog]

It does seem that "we" tend to make more like a brown ale than an altbier. For the longest time, Alaskan Amber was listed as example of altbier, and that is a pretty heavier brown more crystally thing than the dryer roast German altbiers. Kinda like Sam Adams Oktoberfest is a browner more crystally version of German Festbiers I suppose. My tastes have definitely trended toward the dryer end over time.

 

[wepeeler]

It does seem that "we" tend to make more like a brown ale than an altbier. For the longest time, Alaskan Amber was listed as example of altbier, and that is a pretty heavier brown more crystally thing than the dryer roast German altbiers. Kinda like Sam Adams Oktoberfest is a browner more crystally version of German Festbiers I suppose. My tastes have definitely trended toward the dryer end over time.

Agreed. I used to love Sam Octoberfest, but it's nothing like a traditional Octoberfest. Way too sweet for me now.

Truth is, I haven't had many traditional Alts. My first experience was Long Trail, so that's what I basing my judgement on.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

It's been some time since I had an Altbier, but I don't remember it to have any remarkable body. It was more like a well attenuated Pilsener body-wise, if I remember it correctly. Maybe it's the American view, throwing in more body and than balancing it with more hops.

See my post #55 above - they don't use caramel malts in alts in Germany, typical attenuation is 80% in Dusseldorf although Uerig is a touch less than that.

 

[rmr9]

I based my recipe on JZs cowboy alt as a starting point and he uses caramunich. I hadn’t brewed an alt yet so I haven’t formed my own baseline yet.

When I was working in the Netherlands for a month a few years back I took a train to Düsseldorf just to wander the altstadt and drink altbier. Not sure if this will come out close to what I had there…but then again I’m not sure that my brain and tastebuds will remember exactly either!

 

[rmr9]

I tried a hochkurz mash on this as well 145 for 30 minutes, 158 for 45 minutes followed by mashout at 168 for 10 minutes. Not sure if that’ll make any difference but I wanted to try something new.

 

[Miraculix]

It is interesting to see that, no matter in which direction you are looking, everybody seems to make beers much sweeter than the originals actually are. I have observed the exact same thing here in Germany regarding American IPAs and APAs. Just very few local breweries manage to brew a decent IPA that is not cloyingly sweet. Same for pale ale. It is either cloyingly sweet, underhopped, or both here in Germany. Every brewery makes marvelous lagers but fails miserably with something as "easy" as an ale

There is the odd exception of course, like Crew Republic. I liked every one I had from these guys so far and I bet most of you would agree if you could try them.

 

[wepeeler]

See my post #55 above - they don't use caramel malts in alts in Germany, typical attenuation is 80% in Dusseldorf although Uerig is a touch less than that.

I got 70% using Dusseldorf yeast, but it's very crisp. FG was 1.016, if I believe my Tilt, but it's not overly sweet at all. Would love to try a real German alt!

 

[balrog]

See my post #55 above - they don't use caramel malts in alts in Germany, typical attenuation is 80% in Dusseldorf although Uerig is a touch less than that.

The last 20 batches of my alt, avg attenuation 80.1%, avg FG 1.010 altho I like the ones that finish a couple points lower. All these are with WY1007.

 

[monkeymath]

At just 4% of the grist, that CaraMunich is going to be rather hard to pick out distinctly. It's not going to make a beer "cloyingly sweet".

 

[Broothru]

Agreed. I used to love Sam Octoberfest, but it's nothing like a traditional Octoberfest. Way too sweet for me now.

Truth is, I haven't had many traditional Alts. My first experience was Long Trail, so that's what I basing my judgement on.

I used to travel to Dusseldorf quite frequently, though that was in the mid to late 90s so it's been a while. I enjoyed many a beer at different breweries in Alt Stadt, and I remember them to be amber to dark, strong malt background yet solidly hopped (Pearl, Magnum?). I never thought of Alaskan Amber as an Altbier because of the crystal, but that said I enjoyed it a lot on trips to Anchorage and NW U.S. states.

 

[Gus_13]

I like this thread. I've been meaning to brew another alt and will probably get on going soon. This is my current recipe. Very simple but that's how I like most of my grists.

Weyermann Pilsner - 64%
Weyermann Munich II - 33%
Weyermann Carafa Speciall II - 3%
SRM approx. 13.8

Mash at 151F for 1 Hr (I typically do Hochkurz schedule but for this one it dries it way out if I do.)

Hops:

28.5 IBUs at 60 min
6.5 IBUs at 20 min
5.0 IBUs at 10 min
All Spalt hops

Boil for 75 min adding hops as specified.

Target OG: 1.048
Cool to 60F and pitch either Omega 001 Alt or Imperial Kaiser. Ferment cool.
Target FG: 1.011

Future changes will be probably dropping Carafa all together when I get Sinamar.

 

[Jayjay1976]

I like this thread. I've been meaning to brew another alt and will probably get on going soon. This is my current recipe. Very simple but that's how I like most of my grists.

Weyermann Pilsner - 64%
Weyermann Munich II - 33%
Weyermann Carafa Speciall II - 3%
SRM approx. 13.8

Mash at 151F for 1 Hr (I typically do Hochkurz schedule but for this one it dries it way out if I do.)

Hops:

28.5 IBUs at 60 min
6.5 IBUs at 20 min
5.0 IBUs at 10 min
All Spalt hops

Boil for 75 min adding hops as specified.

Target OG: 1.048
Cool to 60F and pitch either Omega 001 Alt or Imperial Kaiser. Ferment cool.
Target FG: 1.011

Future changes will be probably dropping Carafa all together when I get Sinamar.

A guy in my brew club does a fantastic Alt with all spalter hops. Excellent choice.

 

[wepeeler]

A guy in my brew club does a fantastic Alt with all spalter hops. Excellent choice.

Now you have me intrigued. I love all Tettnang. Might have to try Spalter. Never used them before...

 

[Broothru]

I like this thread. I've been meaning to brew another alt and will probably get on going soon. This is my current recipe. Very simple but that's how I like most of my grists.

Weyermann Pilsner - 64%
Weyermann Munich II - 33%
Weyermann Carafa Speciall II - 3%
SRM approx. 13.8

Mash at 151F for 1 Hr (I typically do Hochkurz schedule but for this one it dries it way out if I do.)

Hops:

28.5 IBUs at 60 min
6.5 IBUs at 20 min
5.0 IBUs at 10 min
All Spalt hops

Boil for 75 min adding hops as specified.

Target OG: 1.048
Cool to 60F and pitch either Omega 001 Alt or Imperial Kaiser. Ferment cool.
Target FG: 1.011

Future changes will be probably dropping Carafa all together when I get Sinamar.

I like this recipe. The only tweaks I think I'll make are Blackprinz for Carafa (for color I think it's the best dehusked roast malt out there), Spalt and Perle (love that combo) and modify my Hoch-Kurz schedule times and temps to prevent the drying effect (excellent point you make). Good choice on Kaiser yeast. I've got Dieter and Pub in my yeast bank (both are great, and I'm really impressed with these Imperial yeasts). Now I've got an excuse to try Kaiser on this good looking recipe. Thanks for posting.

 

[Gus_13]

A guy in my brew club does a fantastic Alt with all spalter hops. Excellent choice.

Last one I did was with Magnum for bittering but I want to try and smooth that out and use all Spalter. I really like that hop. All my favorite hops are the "boring, old" hops that don't get used as much. EKG, Mittelfruh, Spalter, evan Amarillo is becoming a lesser used hop.

Now you have me intrigued. I love all Tettnang. Might have to try Spalter. Never used them before...

Really great hop with fantastic Noble character. I enjoy Tettnang as well. Spalt is similar but without the citrus notes. Just be sure to get actual Spalt/Spalter and not Spalter Select. Still a fine hop but not the same.

I like this recipe. The only tweaks I think I'll make are Blackprinz for Carafa (for color I think it's the best dehusked roast malt out there), Spalt and Perle (love that combo) and modify my Hoch-Kurz schedule times and temps to prevent the drying effect (excellent point you make). Good choice on Kaiser yeast. I've got Dieter and Pub in my yeast bank (both are great, and I'm really impressed with these Imperial yeasts). Now I've got an excuse to try Kaiser on this good looking recipe. Thanks for posting.

I definitely could swap for Blackprinz but I just have a supply of Carafa at the moment. Eventually I want to use Sinamar in all my beers for coloring but haven't thought of the best way to keep it on hand. I don't want to buy 3-4oz at a time.

I love the Kaiser yeast. I use it to primary my Historical Berliner beers now. I have a house blend of Kaiser, Berliner Brett, and Lacto Brevis that always does well.

I also thought about modifying my Hochkurz to try keeping it from drying to far out. I like step mashes so I may play with that. I need to revisit the ranges of Alpha/Beta rests for temps and then play with the times to see what that will do.

 

[Broothru]

I also thought about modifying my Hochkurz to keep it from drying to far out. I like step mashes so I may play with that. I need to revisit the ranges of Alpha/Beta rests for temps and then play with the times to see what that will do.

My 'normal' Hoch-Kurz has a 40 minute rest @ 145F/63C and 20 minutes @ 156F/69C, for my preferred drier finished beer. I'm thinking maybe Beta rest for :25 minutes @ 149F/65C and Alpha for :40 minutes @ 159F/70C to emphasize body and malt. I mash-in @ 60C (usually allow 10-15 minutes total) so the average times for Beta and Alpha with this modification gives about equal times for each, slightly favoring maltiness over fermentables.

 

[Gus_13]

My 'normal' Hoch-Kurz has a 40 minute rest @ 145F/63C and 20 minutes @ 156F/69C, for my preferred drier finished beer. I'm thinking maybe Beta rest for :25 minutes @ 149F/65C and Alpha for :40 minutes @ 159F/70C to emphasize body and malt. I mash-in @ 60C (usually allow 10-15 minutes total) so the average times for Beta and Alpha with this modification gives about equal times for each, slightly favoring maltiness over fermentables.

Just plugged this in beersmith and it did get me closer to what I like. 1.009 FG and from 1.048 right at 5.1% ABV. I can live with that so I'll try it. If anything, I could back off some of the grain if I wanted it lower ABV. But right at 5% is a nice spot too.

 

[bwible]

And what makes a “Sticke” alt? Sticke means secret in German. What I read says the brewer was “heavy handed” so it has more. How much more?

 

[Spartan1979]

I've been to Dusseldorf twice for the Sticke release at Uerige and Schlussel. IIRC Uerige's was about 1% higher in ABV. They use it as a chance to try different hops in their beer than they normally use. It gives the brewers a chance to play around a little bit.