Belgian Dark Strong Ale Westvleteren 12 Clone - Multiple Award Winner

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GregKelley said:
In my experience, WLP099 will out work any other yeast including champagne yeast. Wherever it ends, that is it. You may have more long unfermentable sugar than you planned.
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It's looking like that is the case, which is a bummer. Was hoping it was the 530 but if it was the 099 (maybe not enough yeast?) should have finished the job. Wonder if it had to do with the D180.

After 6 days of 099 it dropped from 1.029 to 1.024 and another 6 days brought it down only 1 point. I'm contemplating trying one more yeast and that is Safbrew BE-256. I'm not ready to concede yet, but more than likely that will be my final attempt to ferment this out.
 
bootney said:
It's looking like that is the case, which is a bummer. Was hoping it was the 530 but if it was the 099 (maybe not enough yeast?) should have finished the job. Wonder if it had to do with the D180.

After 6 days of 099 it dropped from 1.029 to 1.024 and another 6 days brought it down only 1 point. I'm contemplating trying one more yeast and that is Safbrew BE-256. I'm not ready to concede yet, but more than likely that will be my final attempt to ferment this out.
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The D180 would not cause a higher finishing gravity as it is mostly fermentable. Did you make a starter with the 099 and pitch it at high krausen? Doing so gets the yeast to work at its most active time.
 
GregKelley said:
The D180 would not cause a higher finishing gravity as it is mostly fermentable. Did you make a starter with the 099 and pitch it at high krausen? Doing so gets the yeast to work at its most active time.
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I was just guessing on the D180. The only other thing I could think of in my brewing process was not a long enough mash for conversion. Think I did at least 60 minutes. With that being said, the grain total wasn't any more than what I usually brew due to the D180 contributing some fermentables.

I did a 1000mL two stage starter with the WLP099, pure o2, and stir plate. It was not pitched at high krausen. I let it settle in order to decant the starter wort. Not sure on the cell count but was hoping that what I pitched would be enough to bring the beer down by 1.017 in order to hit 1.012. I won't disagree with the fact that what I added for cells of WLP099 just might not have been enough.

Like I mentioned in the previous post, going to try a packet of dry yeast and see what happens.
 
bootney said:
I was just guessing on the D180. The only other thing I could think of in my brewing process was not a long enough mash for conversion. Think I did at least 60 minutes. With that being said, the grain total wasn't any more than what I usually brew due to the D180 contributing some fermentables.

I did a 1000mL two stage starter with the WLP099, pure o2, and stir plate. It was not pitched at high krausen. I let it settle in order to decant the starter wort. Not sure on the cell count but was hoping that what I pitched would be enough to bring the beer down by 1.017 in order to hit 1.012. I won't disagree with the fact that what I added for cells of WLP099 just might not have been enough.

Like I mentioned in the previous post, going to try a packet of dry yeast and see what happens.
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60 is enough for conversion. More likely you had your mash temp too high generating too many unfermentables. I can't recall, but there is a product or two out there that can break these down and make them fermentable, but you run the risk of drying it out too much.
 
GregKelley said:
More likely you had your mash temp too high generating too many unfermentables.
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I wish that were the case. Mash temp was 148. For my malty brews I mash at 156 without incident. Perhaps old grains? I've had stalled fermentations before and all it took was another pitch to dry it out. This one has me stumped.
 
Amylase enzyme. Use with caution as it is reported to dry out beers without stopping. I've not used this, but got it to brew the triple hopped beer (miller light clone).
 
I have used amylase enzyme with some success on an iipa that stalled out on me at 1.027 with 002(flocced out). I added one teaspoon and a half a pack of so5 to the keg. Dropped to 1.021.
I wouldn't use it if you bottle unless you give it plenty of time to finish.
It's not ideal but if you have syrup on your hands, it can help.
 
Just tried my first attempt at this recipe (BIAB, SG 1.96 FG 1.008, ABV 11.86%, year aging). It tastes great and I have to think the year mellow helps out it is super smooth.

Any way this has become an annual brew - I love it.
 
I've read more than half of the two threads over the last few days, thanks to everyone who contributed. I've been given given 2 gal of half boiled maple syrup sg 1.140 and i am tempted to use it instead of the candi syrups. It would surely end up in a belgian strong pale ale instead and don't really mind, it would be good, it always ends up good, well, mostly always. I've been wanting to throw that in a brew for some time and i believe a strong belgian would be the best, that's how i've stumbled upun this thread.
After more than a bit of thinking and research, i'm wondering i might be not be best making a strong mead like wine straight out of my half boiled syrup and this brew mostly as is.
There is also a belgian strong pale similar to La Chouffe wich i brewed a few times with the sugar addition in early secondary fermentation i could brew that with my syrup and compare with my plain sugar version.
I'm a bit lost, i see 2 sure things: I brew friday and i want to try this Westvleteren 12 clone soon, which direction do you think i should go?
 
I finally went the Westvleteren 12 clone and maple wine route.

I brewed it with 1 part 6 row, 4 part unmalted grains (barley/wheat/oats in mostly even quantity) (I'm a poorboy, malt is hard to come by around here, grain is almost free and i've been lazy about malting lately, it does a good job as long as i do not use to much unmalted barley without cereal mashing and mash a little longer).

I made my own caramel; sugar number 5 from https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=114837 but could'nt boil 3 times during the second time it would't go past 255 without overflowing so i used it like that, it was succulent anyway pretty dark, a bit bitter, a lot of dried plum taste, caramel and cocoa.

I also substituted Brewer's Gold wich i didn't have for home growned Nugget.

I used a 4l. starter that i stepped up since monday from a bottle of Mons Abbey Witte. I can't for sure what their yeast is but i've been using it from some time and i love it for belgian brews, especially whet it ferment hot, it gets lots of old fruits esters and good attenuation, but also almost explosive fermentation and it sometimes get stuck when 3/4 done was not sure why but after some recent readings i'm thinking it might be temperature change and that Belgh Brasse might be using Westmalle yeast.

I ended up with 45l. of 1.093 delicacy (this is around my 25th all grain brew and i never had a brew taste that good before fermentation) to ferment and 30 l. of 1.025 small beer. I believe this will be an epic brew.

12 hours later it's happily krausening and temperature is starting to rise.
 
Jwin said:
Any possibility of infection? That's super low. Wow
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Didn't taste any when I was bottling it. Definite Belgian tones but nothing that would indicate an infection. Nothing abnormal during fermentation or while it was bulk aging for the month in the cold cellar either.
 
maxmog said:
how does it taste with 1.001
mine was 0.996 and tastes very alkohish
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It definitely is a little warm right now but it still needs to condition and age. That being said it came in at 10.9% and I have had 7-8% beers that tasted more boozy then this at bottling time. I'm fairly confident that it will calm down with a little time. Don't really plan on drinking it till around Christmas.
 
2x gold with mine now. it doesn't seem to be changing much but I'm gonna leave the last 12 pack till sometimes in feb to taste

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I am going to make this again soon fourth attempt any suggestions on how to get this to ferment down mine always stall out around 1.018

Never used the servomyces is that the missing link or should I only hold it at 65 for a day and let it free rise on its own
 
I chilled mine to about 67 and let it free rise in 70 ambient... That being said I don't really know when mine tastes like yet. :)
 
jtp137 said:
I am going to make this again soon fourth attempt any suggestions on how to get this to ferment down mine always stall out around 1.018

Never used the servomyces is that the missing link or should I only hold it at 65 for a day and let it free rise on its own
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CSI always insisted that yeast was the key, so they use fresh krausen. I often will thrown in the whole starter at high krausen to know the yeast are ready (but you have to start with a slighter higher OG, the starter will knock down the gravity some).

Using pure oxygen definitely helps. And yes, yeast nutrient doesn't hurt, it doesn't have to be servomyces.

I always want the wort to get at least into the high 70s if not higher.
 
Kee said:
CSI always insisted that yeast was the key, so they use fresh krausen. I often will thrown in the whole starter at high krausen to know the yeast are ready (but you have to start with a slighter higher OG, the starter will knock down the gravity some).



Using pure oxygen definitely helps. And yes, yeast nutrient doesn't hurt, it doesn't have to be servomyces.



I always want the wort to get at least into the high 70s if not higher.
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I usually make 10 gallon batches so when I grow the starter I usually step it up if the last step is 4 liters I would be a little hesitant at throwing the entire starter in would it work if I would decant the 4 liters then on brew day make 2 liters of slightly higher OG wort maybe 1.050 put the decanted starter in and let it sit for 6 to 8 hours the. Throw the entire two liters in the 10 gallon batch
 
I can't speak to a 10 gallon batch, but my starter regime consists of making a 4L starter of 1.040 decanting and then capturing the blow off. This I believe is essential, once I get two or three days of blow off, I throw it into the fermentor.
 
jtp137 said:
I usually make 10 gallon batches so when I grow the starter I usually step it up if the last step is 4 liters I would be a little hesitant at throwing the entire starter in would it work if I would decant the 4 liters then on brew day make 2 liters of slightly higher OG wort maybe 1.050 put the decanted starter in and let it sit for 6 to 8 hours the. Throw the entire two liters in the 10 gallon batch
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A lot of brewers have the same reservations about throwing in a big starter and I'd never try to convince anyone to do that if they have reservations. And it may not be so great for a "delicate" beer. But it works well for me in a Belgian dark strong.

What you suggest sounds like a good alternative that would work just as well, maybe even better. And 2 liters of 1.050 in 10 gallons would barely put a dent in the OG.
 
sikkingj said:
I can't speak to a 10 gallon batch, but my starter regime consists of making a 4L starter of 1.040 decanting and then capturing the blow off. This I believe is essential, once I get two or three days of blow off, I throw it into the fermentor.
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sikkingj,
Your approach sounds promising. I am not understanding why you decant your 4L starter if you plan to capture the blow off from it. Or, are you saying that you capture blow off from the fermentor and throw THAT back in? Would you mind clarifying?

Thanks!
 
Thanks very much for this recipe! I just took a gravity sample from the batch I had brewed a couple of weeks ago and it's at 1.012 and already tasting excellent. My OG came in slightly under what I was shooting for at 1.082. I couldn't quite get the 0.75 gallon reduction to boil down to a syrup in 90 minutes...maybe I was being too cautious to avoid scorching.

I used the WLP530 as suggested and it is the most aggressive yeast I've seen. My yeast starter sprayed all over the kitchen on the stir plate, then again inside the fridge. That should have been a warning to use a blow off. Second day in and the fermenter sprays the basement ceiling and all the brewing equipment. Then it sprayed all over me as I was attempting to set up the blow off and clean up. Was active for a good 7 days before it calmed down.

Fun times, definitely will try again.
 
Blow off from the fermenter, not the starter.

I make a 4L starter, once it does its thing I cold crash the starter and then decant that - getting rid of the spent starter (say down to 2L). Now put your decanted starter into the wort. Use a blow off tube (into your clean and sanitized 5L starter flask) and collect the blow off after 2 or 3 days and put the blow off back into the fermenter - this is essential, in my opinion.
 
OK, I've made this recipe and believe I've stayed up to date with the posts....but with all this talk about blow offs, things spraying all over peoples' faces....I don't recall ever reading anything about people using Fermcap to keep all this experience off their clothes, out of their hair, and generally from making a mess.

Is there a reason for that or has none of us tried it? Did I miss it earlier in the posts?
 
sikkingj said:
Blow off from the fermenter, not the starter.

I make a 4L starter, once it does its thing I cold crash the starter and then decant that - getting rid of the spent starter (say down to 2L). Now put your decanted starter into the wort. Use a blow off tube (into your clean and sanitized 5L starter flask) and collect the blow off after 2 or 3 days and put the blow off back into the fermenter - this is essential, in my opinion.
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Do you use starsan in the blowoff flask? I was under the impression that the star san would kill the yeast. Maybe I'm wrong. I just had this happen with a violent 1318 fermentation in too full of a fermenter. Would be an easy way to harvest yeast.
 
I guess I should have clarified, the amount of activity from the starter should have clued me in that a blow off was needed on the fermenter. I tried to use an airlock. I didn't read the entire thread until after the mess happened :).

Is the point of capturing the krausen from blow off for better attenuation? I feel as though I got pretty good attenuation from the 2L starter alone. Maybe that was just luck though...

I think the idea of adding fermcap into the fermenter is probably a good one. I always use in the boil, but I did not add to fermenter. I will attempt that next time.
 
We just did a side by side of this version and the SAQ version both brewed in January, bulked aged for about 6 months and then bottled. Followed recipes exactly as written except did a single infusion, and kept them in exact conditions. Both brew days went well, and hit my numbers and temps almost spot on.

We did blind tastings and I had a hard time telling the two apart. They are very similar (at least to me) at this point in aging.

I didn't have an original to compare, but it was pretty close from what I recall and noted when I was lucky to have an original last winter (which spurred me brewing both versions).

I intend to brew both versions each year to continue a long term taste test. I am curious how different they will age over a 12-24 month period.

CSI has excellent recipes on their site. The Chimay Blue is awesome. Just bottled a Rochefort 10 clone from them as well...but haven't tasted yet.


Thanks for the recipe!
 
I really regret brewing this beer, after 9 months I tried it... and i gotta say... DAMN its fantastic!! but I only have 5 gallons :( this may the first keg I dont tell my friends about...
 
GregKelley said:
60 is enough for conversion. More likely you had your mash temp too high generating too many unfermentables. I can't recall, but there is a product or two out there that can break these down and make them fermentable, but you run the risk of drying it out too much.
Click to expand...

Checked the gravity 33 days after pitching the WLP099 and it has fermented down to 1.017. Huge difference between 1.023 and 1.017 in terms of flavor. The residual sweetness is not in the way as much. I did pitch a pack of the safale abbey yeast this past Thursday. Hoping I can get it down to the target 1.012. I'll report back this Thursday to see if it dry yeast is working. Thanks to all of the posters for their support.
 
Just brewed my second batch of this and I'm hoping I solved my attenuation issue from my first batch. I started yeast banking and stepped up 1,000 billion cells of Wyeast 3787 from a slant for an 11 gallon batch. The second day of fermentation has been very aggressive and I had a chance to try out my krausen capture device. I need a bigger jar! I'm going to bottle condition this batch and let it age for eight months before trying one. This batch tested the limits of my mash tun.

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